GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADIO: 1

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Listercat
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Listercat »

The biggest "issue" to me in this game is the answer back for the hits on sammy and especially the one on Henrik. Not only did a message have to be sent to Methot but it needs to be known league wide that the Canucks will not tolerate cheap shots against their "stars". The message now being sent is that the Canucks players do not protect their top players.

Methot got a penalty, big deal. Whether or not he receives a suspension is immaterial. Henrik is now injured and this is the same injury that plagued him through the playoffs last season. He may be able to be in the lineup but his effectiveness will be reduced. That is the real cost to the Canucks. Someone, whether it be Bieksa, Wiese or Volpatti needed to step up. Power play be damned.

That said the game saw the Canucks start slow again and the Higgins who has played as well as anyone thus far was the goat. The second goal was Luongoesque and was Cory's only mistake in an otherwise great game for him. I really like how he tracks laterally and is square and balanced to the puck.

Cody showed the reason he was ddrafted where he was on his goal. Smart play, stick in position to recieve a good pass from Hammer.His confidence is building and he will get bigger and stronger.

Hamhuis has better offensive instincts than we saw most of last season and he will help make up for the loss of Erhoff's points.

Tanev had a bad game, however, in his defense, the forwards, especially early in the game were cheating early. One play saw Tanev blasting the puck around the boards from behind the net and there was not a Canuck jersey in sight.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Potatoe1 »

In the hearts and minds of canuck fans and media it seems that the first 2 games of this season are simply a continuation of the series against Boston.

Yesterday it was all about Luongo melting down and today its all about our top players getting pushed around.

For the most part its just a bunch of nonsense.

Luongo always starts slowly and this year will be no different.

Much more obvious however is the notion that Methot in the split second he had to make the decision, calculated his risk / reward on hitting hank and deduced that he could make that hit because some random Canucks would no beat him up for it.

Pure Nonsense.

On a play like that Methot or any other player should and is, far more worried about a long suspension then a few punches to the face.

It would have been nice if the Canucks went after him a little harder but the amount of hand wringing over this play is foolish.

The media and fans are going to create the narrative on this one, and everytime a canuck gets some sort of cheap shot it's going to be "OMG THIS IS WHAT DA BRUINS DID! We are being targeted". In reality however, being physical on the twins has always been a good strategy and just about every star player who isn't particularly tough gets a rough ride in this league.

As for the game.

-Biggest positive on the night was the play of Cody Hodgson. Not only did he make a nice play on the goal but he had several excellent shifts on the power play and carried his line defensively. It will be interesting to see what the team does when Kesler is back because right now Cody is helping the team a lot more then a number of our more established vets.

-Up front I also liked Lappy and Burrows, and though Malholtra has a better game. Weiss was a bit better and is certainly a better player then Volpatti who I though was terrible.

-Biggest negative had to be the play of Chris Tanev who after looking fantastic in the pre-season has struggled in both games. With Alberts waiting in the wings I would not be at all surprised to see Tanev on the bench against the Flyers.

-The rest of the blue line was fairly solid and probably the reason for the win given what was a fairly poor showing by our forwards. Bieksa made a mistake on the second goal but was steady and physical most of the night. Hamhuis was good in his own end and had one of his better offensive games. Ballard was good and only playing him 13 min is an absolute joke.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by dbr »

Anyone think Ballard's lack of ice time might be more due to Tanev's play than anything? Ie. The coaches didn't have a problem with KB4's play but weren't about to shuffle their pairings give him more ice time.

Still, an easy way to do that (and to make Clam happy) without changing the pairings would be to get Ballard onto the powerplay; he certainly would help the Canucks gain the zone and pressure the net immediately.

As for Cody Hodgson's play - and for that matter, the play of most of our wingers - I am hoping that the coaching staff takes a long hard look at moving one of our centers to the wing when Ryan Kesler returns. There are a lot of wingers I wouldn't mind being bumped out of the lineup but I've been reasonably happy with the play of all four centers.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Howdy again Canucks fans!

What I noticed more than anything about last nights game, was how utterly boring it was. I think the players feel the same way. In fact, I think game 1 against the Pens was equally as boring. There is no flow or rhythm that we enjoyed in the playoffs, only ball hockey style stick fights on the walls. Watching Daniel and Henrik, I cant help but notice they don't seem to be having any fun.

I find it hard to evaluate much while they play this uninspired style of hockey.

I find Hodgson playing ok but seems to lack the puck protection skills still that he'll need to become a regular.

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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by dhabums »

Potatoe1 wrote: Luongo always starts slowly and this year will be no different.
You mean this year will also end in a goaltending meltdown? Great, thanks for ruining the year Carnac.

Potatoe1 wrote: Much more obvious however is the notion that Methot in the split second he had to make the decision, calculated his risk / reward on hitting hank and deduced that he could make that hit because some random Canucks would no beat him up for it.

Pure Nonsense.

On a play like that Methot or any other player should and is, far more worried about a long suspension then a few punches to the face.
As you so often do Pot, you try to turn things into an either/or situation so you can have a strong opinion. I doubt anyone here thinks Methot would have hit the brakes in fear of hitting 33 if we were a team that did something. But when you, as a team, send a message that crap will be tolerated it makes it easier for any opponents to act as they want without fear.

I'll try a non-hockey example especially for you. Let's say you have a place in the Okanagan you go up to twice a month. You've grown tired of the 4.5+ hr drive. If you knew you could drive as fast as want without ever getting a ticket, would you? I would. So would lots of others. Some people do it anyway, despite the police. Those people get fined and suspended. But it sure is nice to stop everyone else from doing it to prevent people from getting injured.

You discount the effect that physical deterrent has in hockey because you've never played hockey in a league that allowed fighting. Either that or you are the toughest guy in the city and nobody on the ice scared you.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by dhabums »

Uncle dans leg wrote: What I noticed more than anything about last nights game, was how utterly boring it was.
I think it's become expected to be bored during a CBJ/Van game. 12,000 people in the stands, 4pm start against a team that most of us really don't care about.

You could be suffering from SC hangover. You just watched two months of games that mattered every night.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by dhabums »

Potatoe1 wrote: -Biggest negative had to be the play of Chris Tanev who after looking fantastic in the pre-season has struggled in both games. With Alberts waiting in the wings I would not be at all surprised to see Tanev on the bench against the Flyers.
Maybe Tanev's new muscles are getting in the way?
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

dhabums wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote: What I noticed more than anything about last nights game, was how utterly boring it was.
I think it's become expected to be bored during a CBJ/Van game. 12,000 people in the stands, 4pm start against a team that most of us really don't care about.

You could be suffering from SC hangover. You just watched two months of games that mattered every night.
I know I have that hangover, but do the players as well? It would appear they're really not all that interested.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Potatoe1 »

dbr wrote:Anyone think Ballard's lack of ice time might be more due to Tanev's play than anything? Ie. The coaches didn't have a problem with KB4's play but weren't about to shuffle their pairings give him more ice time.
His even strength ice time isn't that bad, the main issue is his total lack of special teams ice time.
As for Cody Hodgson's play - and for that matter, the play of most of our wingers - I am hoping that the coaching staff takes a long hard look at moving one of our centres to the wing when Ryan Kesler returns. There are a lot of wingers I wouldn't mind being bumped out of the line-up but I've been reasonably happy with the play of all four centres.


No easy answer to this one. Moving a selke winner like Kesler to the wing seems foolish, and our 3rd line is used in such a defensive roll that moving Manny doesn't make much sense either.

As for Cody moving to the wing, over the long term that is probably the answer but it will be a challenge in the short term.

People consistently site his slow foot speed as his biggest weakness but right now it isn't. His biggest current weakness is his strength along the wall and the fact he wins very few board battles. Moving him to the wing will only exacerbate things.

He is finally starting to look comfortable at this level and putting him in a position that is less conducive to his success could undo the progress he has made.

Then again it could be perfectly fine.

Or then again management could just take the easy way out and send him down or stick him on the 4th line again.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Carl Yagro »

Hockey Widow wrote:HW's post
HW, that is exactly it. From game to game, every player makes mistakes and bad plays. Discussions get stale and bogged down when one thing is constantly mentioned. If you look for something you will always find it... in your own mind.

The top pairing had a couple of rough shifts against Pitts mainly because of getting stuck with the 4th unit and last night, there were some bad plays by Tanev, KB3 and Hammer... Dan with a outlet pass right on the tape of a CBJ. Mistakes during a game doesn't mean a player is terrible or is not quality. Shit happens man. You can't harp on every little thing and then be quiet as a church mouse when things are good.

I'll give AV the benefit of the doubt for the huge difference in minutes as to protect young Tanev but I wouldn't want to see him tire out certain players and risk injuries in this important long season of redemption because of pride or arrogance.

What I do like is, that there is so far a second PP unit looking fairly organized and dangerous. Any slip in the first should be countered by the second. Sammy needs to have a spot, but dear AV, not on the stinking point please!
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by herb »

dhabums wrote:I think it's become expected to be bored during a CBJ/Van game. 12,000 people in the stands, 4pm start against a team that most of us really don't care about.

You could be suffering from SC hangover. You just watched two months of games that mattered every night.
TBH, I'm finding it kind of nice to not be stressed out every game day. It's kind of a nice change being able to leisurely watch Canucks hockey. I do agree that a half full Monday evening stadium in Columbus is hardly a recipe for an exciting atmosphere though. I think it will take until the first game against a WC rival before things start getting exciting.

As for the game, I thought that it would have been nice had somebody taken Methot to task for the boarding hit on Hank. That being said, I don't think it was a particulary bad hit in that it wasn't that hard or malicious.

Hodgson had by far his best game in the NHL, and it was nice to see him rewarded with the tying goal with what was a pretty slick goal. He is playing well despite his linemates, who have largely been ineffective. He still gets knocked off the puck too easily and falls down too much, but he is improving and has been one of our more effective forwards over two games now. As long as he keeps working hard, I'd like to see him in the lineup when Kesler returns. Maybe Manny gets bumped over to the wing and Higgins gets bumped back up to the second line to rekindle some of that Higgins/Kesler hard working, speedy, north-south chemistry from last season?

Ballard is looking more and more like the player we saw glimpses of last season. This player is most effective when he is skating with his head up and playing confidently. Ballard is playing very well despite Tanev's struggles in the first two games. He adds a different dynamic with zone entry and transition as he is far and away our best skating blueliner. I would like to see him play more. He played one shift with Edler right after a powerplay, and I'm looking for this player to get more opportunity in the top 4 before injuries happen.

The rest of the D, except for Tanev and Edler, was solid as ever. Edler looked soft and slow and Tanev looks like a rookie this year. He'll be sent down if he keeps this up.

I am still in denial about any potential impending goaltending controversy, but I am 100% ready for Schneider to play more. If management has any smidgen of doubt about the decision to go with Luongo long term, then we need to play the ginger more to see if there's any reason to doubt him. It is getting harder and harder to not be on this player's bandwagon...

Volpatti sucks - next please. At this point I would have rather gone with stainless steel face Fedoruk.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by dbr »

Potatoe1 wrote:No easy answer to this one. Moving a selke winner like Kesler to the wing seems foolish, and our 3rd line is used in such a defensive roll that moving Manny doesn't make much sense either.

As for Cody moving to the wing, over the long term that is probably the answer but it will be a challenge in the short term.

People consistently site his slow foot speed as his biggest weakness but right now it isn't. His biggest current weakness is his strength along the wall and the fact he wins very few board battles. Moving him to the wing will only exacerbate things.

He is finally starting to look comfortable at this level and putting him in a position that is less conducive to his success could undo the progress he has made.

Then again it could be perfectly fine.

Or then again management could just take the easy way out and send him down or stick him on the 4th line again.
Yeah it's a tough call one way or the other.

I guess at least this time Cody would have an NHL calibre linemate on the fourth line in Lapierre (who I believe played the wing in Montreal from time to time).

Manny also has experience on the wing, and perhaps an opportunity to let Hodgson play a defensive role is something that appeals to AV (certainly moving from the fourth to the third line is something he would probably prefer to do with a young player like CH).

But I do think Hodgson could play wing on the second line; he has not been great along the boards but Ryan Kesler is and if either Sammy picks up his game or they move Higgins up then the line would still have two effective forecheckers to protect Hodgson.

Frankly none of the wingers have impressed much at this early juncture and we don't have the scoring depth to drop an offensive talent like Silent G all the way to the bottom of the lineup.... but you're right that there isn't an easy answer. Of course if Hodgson can't keep up this level of play then the answer will get a lot easier, if not more appealing.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Potatoe1 »

I'll try a non-hockey example especially for you. Let's say you have a place in the Okanagan you go up to twice a month. You've grown tired of the 4.5+ hr drive. If you knew you could drive as fast as want without ever getting a ticket, would you? I would. So would lots of others. Some people do it anyway, despite the police. Those people get fined and suspended. But it sure is nice to stop everyone else from doing it to prevent people from getting injured.
Are you really trying to explain this with the above example?

Do you seriously think I do not understand the effect of "consequence" on behaviour. Most very young children understand the concept.

What you do not seem to understand is that "most" NHL players fear being suspended far more then they fear being punched in a scrum.

Having a tougher line up will cut "some" of the crap, (i.e Marchant speed bagging Daniel) but the hit we saw last night is a terrible example yet people will use it to further the naritive which was started in the finals.

If the long suspensions we saw for hits from behind in the pre-season are not enough to stop someone hitting Hank from behind then do you honestly think that the very limited form of frontier justice that can be delivered at ice level is going to change anything?

This is what people don't seem able to grasp.

Even if you are willing to throw a game away to make a point, there isn't very much that can be done at ice level.

As I have said all along, I would love a tougher line up but those who think putting some scary goon is going to stop hits like the one we saw last night are completely out of touch with reality.
You discount the effect that physical deterrent has in hockey because you've never played hockey in a league that allowed fighting. Either that or you are the toughest guy in the city and nobody on the ice scared you.
You would be wrong on both counts.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by Larry Goodenough »

dhabums wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote: Luongo always starts slowly and this year will be no different.
You mean this year will also end in a goaltending meltdown? Great, thanks for ruining the year Carnac.

Potatoe1 wrote: Much more obvious however is the notion that Methot in the split second he had to make the decision, calculated his risk / reward on hitting hank and deduced that he could make that hit because some random Canucks would no beat him up for it.

Pure Nonsense.

On a play like that Methot or any other player should and is, far more worried about a long suspension then a few punches to the face.
As you so often do Pot, you try to turn things into an either/or situation so you can have a strong opinion. I doubt anyone here thinks Methot would have hit the brakes in fear of hitting 33 if we were a team that did something. But when you, as a team, send a message that crap will be tolerated it makes it easier for any opponents to act as they want without fear.

I'll try a non-hockey example especially for you. Let's say you have a place in the Okanagan you go up to twice a month. You've grown tired of the 4.5+ hr drive. If you knew you could drive as fast as want without ever getting a ticket, would you? I would. So would lots of others. Some people do it anyway, despite the police. Those people get fined and suspended. But it sure is nice to stop everyone else from doing it to prevent people from getting injured.

You discount the effect that physical deterrent has in hockey because you've never played hockey in a league that allowed fighting. Either that or you are the toughest guy in the city and nobody on the ice scared you.

I think this "physical deterrent" expectation is just an old habit from simplistic thinking, perpetrated largely from a reactionary media looking to draw attention to themselves with a chicken little story.

If I see Vancouver chasing guys everytime an opponent hits a Sedin, I'm running them even more, ensuring the Canucks are seen by the league as losing their composure. I'll then turtle to draw a penalty. The next game, I'd do it two more times expecting the same, driving the opposition even battier and giving my less talented team a better chance to win.. Then, during my next contract negotiation, I'll be seen a premier agitator who draws penalties and isn't afraid to target the other teams best players. That should earn me an extra million a year.

Or, I can run a Sedin and take my own penalty. Their composure, silent anger and deadly powerplay will most likely give a talented Canuck team an even greater chance to win the game. Now my coach will go 0-3 and will already be on the hot seat after 6000 people saw my team lose yet again. He'll yell at me before the next game against Vancouver to avoid penalties at all costs as it's the only chance we have to win... I'll take a penalty regardless and instead of that premier agitator title and the extra millions, I'll be in the minors.
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Re: GDT: Oct 10 - Canucks @ Columbus - 4pm - SNET-P(HD) RADI

Post by dhabums »

Potatoe1 wrote:
Having a tougher line up will cut "some" of the crap, (i.e Marchant speed bagging Daniel) but the hit we saw last night is a terrible example yet people will use it to further the naritive which was started in the finals.
The narrative didn't start in the Finals, it was just re-opened on hockey's biggest stage. I will repeat this for you, nobody thinks Methot will magically stop last night because he might have to fight. It is about the level of respect/fear your opponents have going into the game and how they will act. There is no reason to look over your shoulder when playing the Canucks.

If we are going to allow other teams to do what they want then it will continue to happen. I am not talking about suspension worthy things because that isn't the issue. This team shouldn't allow their tickets to success to get touched by anyone without the possible fear of retribution. You are not going to stop everyone ever, but we have taken the opposite approach of allowing anyone to act as they please.

No slash, no punch in the head, no hit after the whistle should go unpunished. While some may celebrate PP goals in November, I'll take healthy Sedins in June rather than the annual "they are injured" stories.
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