GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby Lancer » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:50 am

I don't think Luongo was diving at all. He was making save after save, was on his knees and hence not in a stable position to keep his balance if knocked backward. If he was on both his feet, maybe. This, after he was playing lights out. The Luongo haters surface again... can this guy ever get a fair break round here?

Fact of the matter was that his teammates should have flattened any Coiler within 3 ft of the puck - there should not have been 4 straight shots on Luongo before the goal. This one was on them, not Luongo.

On another matter, the 3rd line looked good after an iffy 1st period. If Malhotra, Hansen and Higgins can get some more chemistry it'll be 'Raffi who?" The 4th line looked like a 4th line should - human torpedoes who create enough havoc to keep the opposition on their heels for the most part. Nice to see Vic O skating and hitting like a freight train. Volpatti made a couple good tattoos as well.

Cornuck wrote:Yeah - it's getting worse each year - and from what I've seen this season, it's at an all time high. Sure, stick up for your teammates after cheap, illegal hit - but after every fucking hard hit?? Grow a pair and wait for revenge. Quit slowing the game down with meaningless shoving and face washes.


I think if it was anybody but one of their golden 1st overall picks, it may not have drawn the same reaction. That said, it is getting bad. Maybe coincidental roughing penalties will cut down on that kind of nonsense. If a player wants to stick up for himself after getting hit, or if people want to react to a dirty hit that's one thing - what's happening now is garbage.

As for Hodgson, the kid was due for a game like this. He's been trying and just getting stymied for almost all the pre-season. He's looked good so far, and I hope this gives him the confidence to get a couple more before Kes comes back. The question Ron and the boys were asking though, is - if Hodgson really proves he belongs in the top 6, what do they do when Kes and Raymond come back? Nice problem for Gillis to have, but fodder for a discussion in another thread.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby newcanuckfan » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:18 am

After not really watching more than a few minutes of the other exhibition games I was able to watch most of this one. Like the regulars, I like to ease into the season ;) So bear with me while I spew some morning after observations.

For me, Hodgson was definitely a standout. I know there was mention of his speed improvement (which was apparent to me as well) but he really does have great puck sense and great hands and that's what's most impressive. Combined with the rigorous off season training, he's starting to look more like a diamond in the rough. I know that was the book on him, but we didn't see that much in the roles he had last year.

Lu looks his solid self (I'll give him a free pass on the interference call he tried to bait - though it makes me question whether he's learned anything mentally during the summer).

Ballard looks OK. Like as in a good OK. I won't say more for fear of starting an endless thread.

Hits to the head: Edler's looks suspect but more the result of Hall backing off making it look more like the head was the target. We'll see what Shanaban says. Same for Sturm - shit happens, head wasn't the target. They both might get 2 games, or zero. I have no sense of where the boundary is.

Agree with other posters - a fight every time a guy gets checked cleanly is BS. We saw this happening more last year, but it's just not a priority to deter given the focus on the head shots. But why not add an extra 2 minutes for instigating the scrum?

Looking forward to Thursday...gonna be a long road back but the pieces are there.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby Rayxor » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:57 am

Lancer wrote:here?
The question Ron and the boys were asking though, is - if Hodgson really proves he belongs in the top 6, what do they do when Kes and Raymond come back? Nice problem for Gillis to have, but fodder for a discussion in another thread.


I have not seen every game this preseason, but from those I have, It seems obvious that he has the skills and creativity to be a top six even with Kes and Raymond in the lineup. Is Raymond even an automatic for Kesler's wing?

Lu looked very sharp as well, which is odd since he isnt supposed to be good out of the gate. The one goal is hardly his fault when he makes the first several saves and gets knocked down. And do we really have to talk about diving on plays where any goalie would have been knocked over in that situation?

I liked Ballard's game from what i saw of it. I am no more worried about his mistakes than i was about Ehrhoff's last year. I'm more worried about AV benching him in favor of some depth Dman.

The new headshot era will be interesting. Best not to have too many tall players on the roster if incidental hits are getting called. On the plus side, our hip check specialists should be safe......until the playoffs of course :scowl:
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby Southern_Canuck » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:39 am

I thought Hodgson continued to work hard and generated some offensive chances, and was finally rewarded with a skilled tip-in, and a pretty slick empty-netter.

Very encouraging from where things sat at the end of last pre-season.

He made one deft "how do ya do" under pressure on the powerplay which maintained possession that nobody besides the Sedins and Samuelsson could pull off - also very encouraging.

Since he will be facing 2nd pairing defencemen for the most part on the second line, I expect him to continue to improve and grow while Kesler is out - it will be great to watch.

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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby RoyalDude » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:52 am

I see CoHo took my slags about him yesterday to heart and proved me wrong. You see, there is method to my madness.

The problem with Ballard is that he can get all Sopel-like on you and go completely brain-dead, which is why he will never truly be a Top-4 defenseman on a good team, maybe in the vast hockey waste land swamps of shitty hockey Miami, but not in the hockey fish bowl world of Canada.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby Orcasfan » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:02 am

Yeah, pretty entertaining game, for a pre-season one. Considering that this was only the 2nd game for most of the vets, the "rust" was not obvious. With a couple of exceptions...I thought Sturm was not impressive, despite his 5 shots! :eh: I hope it was just the rust factor. If not, I could see Higgins changing places with him. The other player who disappointed was Manny. :hmmm: Yes, of course he was his usual elite level in the circle. But, otherwise, he was "off" his game - especially in his PK duties. I don't understand why he insisted on passing off (and, unwisely) when he got the puck in the D zone, instead of clearing himself! :cry: That happened numerous times. I did not notice him much offensively at all. All in all, I thought he was a drag on that 3rd line. Rust? I hope so...

The 4th line impressed - the whole line did their job enthusiastically! They were just as much a threat in the Oilers zone as the 3rd line! We may see Lappierre centering the 3rd line at some point, maybe early on (at least till Manny gets his legs).
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby LotusBlossom » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:14 am

Southern_Canuck wrote:What a knob Luongo is flopping to his back to try for the interference call. I could do without that. So, then they score easily, but I don't think they get that one if he stays on his knees, and keeps minding the net.

1-1

S_C


Since I was right on top of that play, I'm going to say that Malholtra pushed Paajarvvi into Luongo and Lu felt he was interfered with not seeing Malholtra was the guy that pushed Paajarvi in. There is no flopping when you have a guy being pushed into you like that. Luongo was playing at the end I was in at the arena and I had the bird's eye view of that play and that goal.

Other thoughts:

Cody looked good taking the opportunities given to him last night. Looked pretty good in the face-off circle as well.

Higgins looked pretty good last night,assisting on three goals. He worked very well with Malholtra and Hansen.

Canucks played a sloppy 2nd, as they often do. Pretty mid-season form there :s I wish this part of their game would change.

Ballard looked good last night. Made some key defensive plays in his own end and prevented a few shots from even got an assist on Hodgson's empty-netter.

As far as that Edler 'hit to the head' penalty, it looked more like Hall was ducking the hit and inadvertently got Edler's elbow on his head. Also, Edler looked so off last night, I couldn't even explain.

Oh yeah, Oreskovich must have heard you guys bitching about him being too nice. He had a little fire in him last night. Good to see. Impressed with the 4th line as some of you are, they really showed they had some energy last night.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:06 am

Not a half bad game for a preseason affair. Canucks had some defensive issues early but the Oilers are terrible so it didn't much matter.

-Hodgson seemed to benefit from the extra day off and having more talent out on the ice with him. To be honest this game really wasn't that much different from most of the other games he's played in the pre season. Good not great defence, good not great scoring chances, and steady but not spectacular play. The difference really was a little more finish and actually having some other guys creating offence while he was on the ice.

-The other forwards who stood out for me were Higgens, and Lappy, I think both outplayed the guys in front of them in the line up (Manny and Marco). Probably a little early to judge Malholtra though given Lappy has played several more games.

-On the negative side of things, Volpatti was invisible which is a bad thing when you are 4th line energy guy. A couple more games like that and the 4th line will be changed up.

-At the back end I though Hamhuis was the big positive. Second game in a row where he's looked great, doesn't seem like the surgery has slown him down at all.

-He may have looked great but I'm not a fan of using Hamhuis / Bieksa on the second power play unit. Salo is the best for that role in terms of skill set and Ballard / Tanev are the best fit in terms of ice time distribution.

-Anyone a bit concerned to see the 18-year old RNH bump Tanev off the puck?

-Ballard looks better then last year but he still doesn't look as good as the 4 guys ahead of him. I don't see his role being much different then what we saw last year.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby coco_canuck » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:17 am

A better game for Cody, but his line as a whole was invincible for large stretches and Cody struggled at times getting involved in the play. He showed nice hands on the tip on the PP and a good burst getting to the loose puck on the empty netter. Although his straight ahead speed once his feet are moving is decent, the explosiveness and quickness in the first few strides isn't there. Also, it's not just foot-speed, but also footwork, and Hodgson's footwork in tight and agility leave a lot to be desired. Hodgson still has problems getting separation from defenders in traffic and along the boards. It's an area he can improve with tireless work. His decision making with the puck can still stand to get a bit quicker, although I'd say that's more of an experience thing that should come around with time.

I think we'll soon start referring to Hodgson's line as the 3rd line, because the Higgins-Manny-Hansen line is far better and more effective. If last night's ice-time was any indication, Malhotra's line will be getting 16-18 minutes of ice-time while Hodgson's will clock in at around 12-14 minutes.

I really liked the old Marco Sturm, but other than his first exhibition game, I haven't been overly impressed with him. His quickness and speed isn't what it used to be, but more than anything, he's a player that needs a good centre to get him the puck in the right areas. When his speed was better, he used to cut and drive the net when he flew down the wing into offensive zone, but now I've noticed him shooting the puck from the face-off circle even if it seems he has half a step on a defender. He still hangs around the net and around the slot, waiting for a pass or ready to pounce on a rebound, but so far that line has had trouble getting sustained offensive pressure and haven't generated more than a couple of scoring chances per game.

For all the criticism Raymond gets, and a small part of it is justified, he's a very capable and effective top 6 winger. He would have still been around the 45-50 point range if he didn't miss so many games last year, and that's not terrible for a player who had an off-year. Yes, he's soft at times and he's had inconsistent hands, but his speed, offensive and defensive instincts and stellar work on the PK are very valuable assets to this Canucks team. His game fits the Canucks system very well and he's a large part of the Canucks having the best transition game in the NHL. That's not to say I'm against moving him for an upgrade, but if you think Sturm is an upgrade or even as productive and valuable a player you'll be terribly disappointed. It's not as easy to replace Raymond as many may think, and it won't be too long before many will look forward to his return.

Ballard looked as good as I've seen him in a Canucks uniform. He was a much more assertive and decisive player on the ice and did a terrific job moving the puck quickly and crisply up the ice. He continually hit the right players and put the puck in the right areas coming out of his own zone. On defense he was more confident and stronger on the puck. He looked like a confident and motivated player, and when he plays like that he's much stronger defensively and makes better decisions with the puck. I really like the way the ice-time was distributed on defense last night, with the top pair getting 21 minutes, Edler at 20, and then Salo, Ballard and Tanev eating up between 17-18 minutes each. It'll fluctuate from game to game, but I'd be extremely pleased if that'll be the average ice-time of the d-men. It'll help keep the defense healthy, fresh and sharp for a long regular season, and considering how injury prone our blueline has been, rolling 3 pairs as evenly as possible should be a no-brainer as long as Ballard gains the coaching staff's confidence.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:58 pm

coco_canuck wrote:For all the criticism Raymond gets, and a small part of it is justified, he's a very capable and effective top 6 winger. He would have still been around the 45-50 point range if he didn't miss so many games last year, and that's not terrible for a player who had an off-year. Yes, he's soft at times and he's had inconsistent hands, but his speed, offensive and defensive instincts and stellar work on the PK are very valuable assets to this Canucks team. His game fits the Canucks system very well and he's a large part of the Canucks having the best transition game in the NHL. That's not to say I'm against moving him for an upgrade, but if you think Sturm is an upgrade or even as productive and valuable a player you'll be terribly disappointed. It's not as easy to replace Raymond as many may think, and it won't be too long before many will look forward to his return.




I like Raymond, but for me, he's still a big question mark as a second liner.

Yes he can get you 45 to 50 points in the regular season but he really seems to have a tough time scoring in the play-offs.

He only has 5 goals in his last 35 play-off games which is pretty horrible given the type of ice time he's been getting.

I love his puck moving and defensive game, but I would much rather see him on the 3rd line where his very erratic goal production is less of a concern.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby coco_canuck » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:27 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:I love his puck moving and defensive game, but I would much rather see him on the 3rd line where his very erratic goal production is less of a concern.


He'd make an already good 3rd line into a great one. I'd like to have the depth that would allow that to happen.

However, I still think he has room under his ceiling. He certainly doesn't lack any of the tools necessary to be a consistent 25 even 30 goal scorer. It's still a matter of strength and confidence. I don't consider Raymond a soft player, but he's certainly not hard-nosed. When he's healthy and confident he gets in the dirty areas and scores more around the net. He still needs to get stronger and develop more consistency. Ultimately it's up to him.

Obviously his injury is a concern, and his effectiveness once he returns is also questionable, but if he can get stronger over the long term, it can make a big difference in his game.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby BladesofSteel » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:46 pm

coco_canuck wrote:Obviously his injury is a concern, and his effectiveness once he returns is also questionable, but if he can get stronger over the long term, it can make a big difference in his game.

The problem is, he was drafted at around 165 lbs and at 26 is listed at 185 (which I call bull shit). There is no way Mason was over 180 in the SCPs last spring. He doesn't have the build to put on weight, and keep it on.

Strength will always be his achilles heal and injuries will continue to be a factor for him unless he doesn't play hard and go to the dirty areas.

I question his effectiveness with this team once he returns, particularly with the depth it has on the wings. His spot on the roster could be filled by either Hansen or Higgins. To me, he's the odd man out come trade deadline should he prove healthy again this season.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby coco_canuck » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:30 pm

BladesofSteel wrote:Strength will always be his achilles heal and injuries will continue to be a factor for him unless he doesn't play hard and go to the dirty areas.


It is a big issue for him, but even though he has trouble keeping weight on, he can still get stronger. The inactivity and lost training time will be difficult to recover from, let alone exceed where he was to begin last season. It's certainly a longer term issue, but there's no questioning his skill set and athleticism that's capable of producing solid numbers.

BladesofSteel wrote:
coco_canuck wrote:His spot on the roster could be filled by either Hansen or Higgins. To me, he's the odd man out come trade deadline should he prove healthy again this season.


He very well could be if he gets completely healthy, but I wouldn't move him unless he can be a significant part of a package that helps yield another top flight forward. I'm not saying you suggest we just dump him, but it doesn't make sense moving him unless it's a clear upgrade.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby coco_canuck » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:41 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:-At the back end I though Hamhuis was the big positive. Second game in a row where he's looked great, doesn't seem like the surgery has slown him down at all.


I never get tired of watching Hamhuis play.

If last night was any indication, Hamhuis will be taking a more assertive role even strength and on the PP, and for one night in the pre-season he looked great doing so. I'm with you about his play on the PP based on what I've seen of him in the past, but I definitely think he can can produce more on even strength.

The first unit PP has moved the puck very well for the most part in their 2 games, and if the PP can continue clicking like last year, we'd only be missing Ehrhoff's 22 even strength point from last season. Hamhuis had 16 even strength point last year, and it's possible reaches up to the 20-25 point range. If Hamhuis can take that step, Bieksa gets back into the mid 30 point range, abd a healthy and productive year from Edler, Ehrhoff's loss will be largely mitigated. If Ballard manages to stay in the line-up all year and plays 17 or more minutes per game, he can also chip in with some offense.

That's certainly a lot of IFs but it's not improbable and could end up being a major key to the Canucks success this up coming year.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Oilers - 10/1 - 7:00pm - CBC, NHLN-US

Postby KeyserSoze » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:55 am

No further discipline for Edler & Sturm. I thought the refs made the right calls on the ice, and agree that there should be no suspensions on either play. I beleive the reasoning was that the head was not "targeted" on either play.

Cornuck wrote:
Mondi wrote:Also why the fuck can you not throw a clean hit in the NHL without having to fight some meathead?


Yeah - it's getting worse each year - and from what I've seen this season, it's at an all time high. Sure, stick up for your teammates after cheap, illegal hit - but after every fucking hard hit?? Grow a pair and wait for revenge. Quit slowing the game down with meaningless shoving and face washes.

Agreed, but at least the Oilers got the extra 2 mins out of it all.
It really gets me when that garbage happens in reaction to a clean hit (I know Oreo got a charging call on the hit, but you know what I mean) but the refs call it even.

Potatoe1 wrote:-Ballard looks better then last year but he still doesn't look as good as the 4 guys ahead of him. I don't see his role being much different then what we saw last year.

I don't think he is ever going to look as good as the 4 guys ahead of him because those 4 guys are straight up better players imo. I do think though that he and Tanev are going to make a great 3rd pairing this season that allows AV to spread out the ice time on the point. With the departure of Ehrhoff we may have lost something in our top pairing, but with Tanev (and Ballard for that matter) getting better and more confident I don't think our D as a whole is going to take as big of a step back as it may have appeared they would with the loss of Ehrhoff. The point you made about Salo & Edler rarely being in the lineup together in the regular season last year is a good one when comparing last years top 6 D to this years. And, it's nice to still have NHL calibre Dmen in Rome and Alberts still on the roster incase of injuries.
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