11/12 Training Camp Thread

[Rumsfeld]

The whole "toughness" issue was over stated because Boston's strength is the fact they likely have the toughest core group in the league.

Some say the psychological effect of the Vancouver Canucks being out-toughed by the Bruins was the difference-maker.

Some say the Hawks eliminated the Vancouver Canucks by way of the same difference-maker in 2010.

Some say the Hawks eliminated the Vancouver Canucks by way of the same difference-maker in 2009.

Some say the Ducks eliminated the Vancouver Canucks by way of the same difference-maker in 2007.


I agree with all those folks!

And I am sooooo sick of it.

Honestly, the collective Canuck pussiness this past June made me sick to my stomach....

If you look at recent cup winners, (Det, Bos, Chi) they all had a pronounced physical element on their top lines. It wasn't the only factor towards their success, but it was a big factor.

Pot is right in that our roster was banged up last year... but this isn't the first year we've been outmuscled in the playoffs. I don't want to get tougher at the expense of our other attributes... I just wanna get tougher. And again, not goon tougher but Lucic/Doan/Big PF tougher.

With Raymond not producing offensively and a much cheaper replacement in Sturm being added, I fail to see why anyone would get upset about losing him in a package deal -- especially if the return is the aforementioned PF. Raymond got his 2.5 million based on the assumption he is a 2nd line winger and can consistently play like one. He isn't and he doesn't. He's a good defensive player but is overpaid in the bottom six and I wonder if he'll ever be the same player coming off a serious spinal injury.

We were a great team last year but you should always strive to improve weaknesses if you can do so without losing what made you successful in the first place. I think this was our weakness last year and in years past, and I think we can address it without blowing up the team.

EDIT: As far as the 2010 Hawks go Doc, they were just plain better than us. Not sure if muscle would have helped so much there.

[Potatoe1]

Yeah, our line-up was good enough to get us VERY close last year... but to assert that it wouldn't be even better with a physical element in the top two lines, especially in the play-offs, sounds a bit like denial.

Need and want are totally different things.

If you can get as far as we did with what we had (game 7 SCF) then you can also win it all with what we had.

Sure I would love to have another physical, top6 forward, who can crash the net etc, but in the current market that player costs 5+ mill.

If we had another 5+ mill player of any type, at any position it would have made a difference in that series.

That is my point.

It wasn't specifically "toughness" that cost us te series.

We just didn't have as good of a team due to injuries, and their goalie was better then ours.

The strength of that Bruins team is the fact that they have the "toughest" core in the league, so because they had that advantage and beat our weekend group it all of a sudden its a pressing need for our team.

Don't believe the hype.

We were tough enough to kick the crap out of 2 very physical teams in the sharks and Preds. IMO the Preds were more physical against us then the Bruins, they kicked the living crap out of the Sedins in that series. The diference was we had so much more skill then them and our goalie was better, when push came to shove.

Of course I would love a high end physical forward or defenceman, but swapping skill for physicality at the bottom end of our roster is going to make zero difference for us in next years play-offs.

BTW, Kesler and Burrows both score a ton of goals in front of the net so we really aren't deficient at all in that area despite what people want to believe.

[dhabums]

Honestly, the collective Canuck pussiness this past June made me sick to my stomach....

Watching the absolute lack of a reaction to the Marchand/Sedin smacking should be embarrassing for ALL hockey fans.

[Potatoe1]

The whole "toughness" issue was over stated because Boston's strength is the fact they likely have the toughest core group in the league.

Some say the psychological effect of the Vancouver Canucks being out-toughed by the Bruins was the difference-maker.

Some say the Hawks eliminated the Vancouver Canucks by way of the same difference-maker in 2010.

Some say the Hawks eliminated the Vancouver Canucks by way of the same difference-maker in 2009.

Some say the Ducks eliminated the Vancouver Canucks by way of the same difference-maker in 2007.


I agree with all those folks!

And I am sooooo sick of it.

Honestly, the collective Canuck pussiness this past June made me sick to my stomach....

The reality is Doc,,,,,,

When your 2 best forwards are the Sedins, and your 3 best defenseman are Edler, Hamhuis, and Salo, and you have spent a ton of cap on your goalie, toughness is not going to be your teams strongest attribute.

Teams win with their strength.

When and if the Canucks win a cup it will be because of their skill, 2-way play, and goaltending, not because they are better at trash talking and throwing gloved punches then their opponents.

Detroit beat that "uber tough" Chicago team 2 years ago by simply being better then them,

That's how we will win, should we be so lucky...

[Potatoe1]

Honestly, the collective Canuck pussiness this past June made me sick to my stomach....

Watching the absolute lack of a reaction to the Marchand/Sedin smacking should be embarrassing for ALL hockey fans.

This is just pure nonsence....

Marchand punching Sedin had zero impact in the series.

Again...

The Bruins won becuse they had fewer injuries and because their goalie went into god mode.

If Craig Cox had flown down from the heavens and beat the ever living crap out of Brad Marchand it would have made absolutly no difference in the series at all.

[Cornuck]

It didn't really impact the series, but it was embarrassing.

[Strangelove]

The Bruins won becuse they had fewer injuries and because their goalie went into god mode.

Perhaps their goalie went into God-mode because he could feel his team had gained a psychological edge.

Perhaps his team had gained a psychological edge because of the toughness factor.

You must admit the possibility.... even if you don't buy into it.

[porp]

But if there had been more toughness throughout the lineup, would the other teams have taken quite so many liberties resulting in minor injuries that added up over the course of the 4 rounds of playoffs?

If the refereeing had been more consistent, I think the 'nucks would not have been quite so beat up. OTOH, if the 'nucks had stood up for themselves through the playoffs, given the reffing, they might not have made it to the finals.

We'll never know, but the team has another shot with essentially the same group. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result." If a big mean player who's skilled enough to play on this team is available, I think Gillis would have to pull the trigger even if it means sacrificing potential future.

Speaking of the future, does this team have any players who fit the big, mean, skilled mold coming through the pipeline? There seems to be a few skilled players (but they all happen to be smurfy or lack that mean streak), but no stereotypical PF-types really come to mind. This team really needs some meanness (but only if it comes with more than half a brain; I'm looking at you Bertuzzi).

Oh, if only Juice's kid brother was a (forward playing) clone of KB3...

[Canuck-One]

Sorry if someone else has already posted this

Canucks reduce pre-season roster by two more
Wednesday, 21.09.2011 / 1:06 PM / News
Vancouver Canucks

| |

Grenier Vancouver, B.C. – Vancouver Canucks President and General Manager Mike Gillis announced today that the Canucks have reduced their pre-season roster by two players.
The following player has been assigned to his junior club:

Alexandre Grenier, Right Wing (Halifax, QMJHL)

The following player has been released to the Chicago Wolves:

Karel St. Laurent, Goaltender (Chicago, AHL)

[dhabums]

Marchand punching Sedin had zero impact in the series.

Again...

The Bruins won becuse they had fewer injuries and because their goalie went into god mode.

If Craig Cox had flown down from the heavens and beat the ever living crap out of Brad Marchand it would have made absolutly no difference in the series at all.

I do not recall saying it had any impact on the series. I said it was embarrassing as was the flopping around. We were absolute pussies. Losing like men would have been a much more tolerable outcome. If I was a Bruins fan, I'd still be laughing at our performance on a few nights. I'd also have a wicked awesome accent and a fat wife.

That all said, if you don't think players can get a lift from a fight then fine. I disagree. If Craig Coxe had beaten Marchand to death, he would not have lit up game 7. If he was in the box for 10 minutes in game 7 he may not have lit us up.

It was a total embarrassment that nothing happened. Hopefully our squad of lightweights take some interest in the game this year. Let the healing begin by hurting Marchand 44 style! Yup, I said it.

And so you know spud, the Bruins won because they won 4 games.

[Cornuck]

Let's keep this thread on topic for the current training camp.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Let's keep this thread on topic for the current training camp.

Absolutely Cornuck. I don't want to de-rail this thread any further and an Owen Nolan or a Brad Winchester isn't going to make or break this team. That said, there is no way this Canucks team or last years is mentally or physically tough enough to win the Cup. Sure they got to game 7 , but they also got fucking clobbered in the 4 losses while barely squeeking out wins in games 1, 2 and 6. Some people will tell you the Canucks outhit the Bruins in the series so there's no way they got physically manhandled. Hmmmm.... would a hit from Burrows the biter or Mason Raymond have as much impact as a hit from a Zdeno Chara or a Milan Lucic ? Kinda like comparing a dog bite to a mosquito bite.

Some fans will have you believe that the Canucks only lost because of poor officiating and injuries. I point to the fact the Bruins were also missing two of their best 4 forwards and sometimes the officials won't give you calls when you bite, pull hair and constantly cry about officiating and did I mention they embellish calls ..... a lot ???? I love the Canucks as much as anyone and I want them to win but this team is getting real hard to cheer for. I would have said this BTW if they won the cup or not.

The thing is the PP sucked ass when they needed it the most and the discipline and professionalism( or lack thereof) was a fucking joke in the finals. I laugh at the vancouver players who say we are like the Wings.........yeah they've also won a few cups so there's that. The Wings also skated away from the srums, they didn't come fucking unglued and when they had to push back there were guys named McCarty and Shanahan who didn't bite or pull hair. Oh yeah and the Wings got a PP goal when it mattered.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Speaking of the future, does this team have any players who fit the big, mean, skilled mold coming through the pipeline?

Nothing but a whole lot of marshmellows coming through.

I am a fan of Jensen however.

Gillis looks to be a proponent of turning the other cheek. Weird considering how he and his brother Paul played the game.

I am down with that approach if you have some icy veined PP producers on this team.

[Potatoe1]

Let's keep this thread on topic for the current training camp.

Absolutely Cornuck. I don't want to de-rail this thread any further and an Owen Nolan or a Brad Winchester isn't going to make or break this team. That said, there is no way this Canucks team or last years is mentally or physically tough enough to win the Cup. Sure they got to game 7 , but they also got fucking clobbered in the 4 losses while barely squeeking out wins in games 1, 2 and 6. Some people will tell you the Canucks outhit the Bruins in the series so there's no way they got physically manhandled. Hmmmm.... would a hit from Burrows the biter or Mason Raymond have as much impact as a hit from a Zdeno Chara or a Milan Lucic ? Kinda like comparing a dog bite to a mosquito bite.

Blob I love ya but this post sounds more like a drunken rant then a logical argument.

So you and a couple of others were embarrassed....

Who cares,

Get over it.

We were in an eyelash of winning, and winning is all that matters.

And for the record I dont see how any of these posts are off topic.

It's the pre season and we are discussing what the make up of the team should be...

How is discussing what happened last season and more specifically in the final not relivant to that....

[dhabums]

So you and a couple of others were embarrassed....

We were in an eyelash of winning and winning is all that matters.

It's not a "couple of others".

Hopefully we can find someone not named Victor to add some grit to this line up during training camp. You are right though with "all that matters". We lost, and we looked wimpy doing it, and that's all that matters.