Bertuzzi/Moore

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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby dhabums » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:26 pm

ukcanuck wrote:As for whether or not I would consider legal action myself, I wouldn't have gone after Naslund's head in the game before, I wouldn't have refused the challenge right afterward, I wouldn't have thought fighting notorious chicken shit Matt Cooke was good enough to settle the feud and I wouldn't have turned my back on Bertuzzi or anyone else in the last moments of the game, so I am pretty sure I wouldn't go for the law suit either...


Don't get me wrong, I am not defending Steve Moore's actions from the point of the hit to his actions up until the point of the end of his career.


The hit was cheap and it should have been a penalty. But it was a hockey play just like Rome's hit. S*** happens.

Brad May should have pounded Moore right after the hit. He didn't try hard enough to get at him.

The Canucks should have knocked the crap out of him that game. If not him, grab Sakic and knock the s*** of their captain.

The Canucks should have done something the next game. Still nothing.

The Canucks should have done something the final game. Sure he ignored invites. F*** the invite. Take the god damned penalty and do your job. They didn't. Run him through the boards. Run Sakic again until he does drop the gloves.

15 seconds before the end of his career, Steve Moore skated away from a fight with Pronger. I bet he wishes he took the fight.

Still, as many hockey people have said (because I assume what I say means zero), he fought Cooke and that should have been the end of it. You can blame Moore for picking his spot if you want to. WTF Cooke was trying to fight him is beyond me. You do seem stuck on the code of what players do but you don't seem prepared to accept that Moore fought Cooke. If it bothers you, blame Cooke for asking. Moore fought, and if you love the idea of what players have done for decades, that should be enough for you.

Back to you. I applaud your bravado. But I bet if your livelihood is taken away from you due to a criminal act, you will consider and then definitely pursue legal action. Would it make any real difference if Moore fought May, Ruutu, Pronger, Allen and whoever else and THEN Bertuzzi hit him? Same result. Same crime. Would he be allowed to sue then? Or would anything short of murder have been ok?


Maybe he can sue JQ for being so stupid to have him out there.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby ClamRussel » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:30 pm

LotusBlossom wrote:The only thing that's really shitty about the whole damn thing is the Canucks are now possibly going to be on the hook for the actions of one person.


So who is on the hook, regarding the "person" known as Vancouver Canucks? The Aquillinis or McCaw? ...seems odd that the lawsuit can be against McCaw...and McCaw is "responsible"...and then he can sell his team and someone who wasn't even on the scene is now responsible. I'm sure this was dealt with at the time of sale but its still a strange situation.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby LotusBlossom » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:53 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
LotusBlossom wrote:The only thing that's really shitty about the whole damn thing is the Canucks are now possibly going to be on the hook for the actions of one person.


So who is on the hook, regarding the "person" known as Vancouver Canucks? The Aquillinis or McCaw? ...seems odd that the lawsuit can be against McCaw...and McCaw is "responsible"...and then he can sell his team and someone who wasn't even on the scene is now responsible. I'm sure this was dealt with at the time of sale but its still a strange situation.


I'm sure you're right about that issue being dealt with at the time of the sale of the Canucks, Clam. It's a strange situation. But we do have a year to think about it all, if we wish. lol

Off topic and for you specifically: A good friend of mine happens to live in your building and knows your wife somewhat well. The two of us went out to the Drink on Columbia street and she was discussing where her home is now, I haven't seen her in a few years prior very recently, and she told me it and it seemed very familiar to me until she described how the building looked like. Oddly enough, I said I think I have another friend who lives in that building. So I described you physically and she said, "Does he have a wife named "*************"? " I said yes and she said she knew you and thought you guys were just a great couple.

Small world.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby dhabums » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:38 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
LotusBlossom wrote:The only thing that's really shitty about the whole damn thing is the Canucks are now possibly going to be on the hook for the actions of one person.


So who is on the hook, regarding the "person" known as Vancouver Canucks? The Aquillinis or McCaw? ...seems odd that the lawsuit can be against McCaw...and McCaw is "responsible"...and then he can sell his team and someone who wasn't even on the scene is now responsible. I'm sure this was dealt with at the time of sale but its still a strange situation.



Due diligence. Not that it was necessary for this matter.

Every single day companies are bought/sold with pending legal issues.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby Jovocop » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:40 pm

dhabums wrote:Maybe he can sue JQ for being so stupid to have him out there.


I believe that it was Tony Granato at the time not Joel Quenville. Knowing that the Canucks were looking to kill Moore that game, Granato sent him out there. Nobody could really tell what Granato's intention was. Was he trying to let the Canucks settle the score?? Or was he simply trying to get a few Canucks suspended??
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby dhabums » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:44 pm

Jovocop wrote:
dhabums wrote:Maybe he can sue JQ for being so stupid to have him out there.


I believe that it was Tony Granato at the time not Joel Quenville. Knowing that the Canucks were looking to kill Moore that game, Granato sent him out there. Nobody could really tell what Granato's intention was. Was he trying to let the Canucks settle the score?? Or was he simply trying to get a few Canucks suspended??


You believe correctly.

I always assumed the coach was sending him out there to get it over with. Ooops, I guess.

I think Rick Tocchet was also on the bench, another guy that believed in old school justice. Add those two to the list of defendants.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby Vpete » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:53 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
LotusBlossom wrote:The only thing that's really shitty about the whole damn thing is the Canucks are now possibly going to be on the hook for the actions of one person.


So who is on the hook, regarding the "person" known as Vancouver Canucks? The Aquillinis or McCaw? ...seems odd that the lawsuit can be against McCaw...and McCaw is "responsible"...and then he can sell his team and someone who wasn't even on the scene is now responsible. I'm sure this was dealt with at the time of sale but its still a strange situation.

Because legal action was initiated while the Canucks had an insurance policy held by Orca Bay the issuer of that policy pays.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby ukcanuck » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:26 am

dhabums wrote:

Still, as many hockey people have said (because I assume what I say means zero), he fought Cooke and that should have been the end of it. You can blame Moore for picking his spot if you want to. WTF Cooke was trying to fight him is beyond me. You do seem stuck on the code of what players do but you don't seem prepared to accept that Moore fought Cooke. If it bothers you, blame Cooke for asking. Moore fought, and if you love the idea of what players have done for decades, that should be enough for you.

Back to you. I applaud your bravado. But I bet if your livelihood is taken away from you due to a criminal act, you will consider and then definitely pursue legal action. Would it make any real difference if Moore fought May, Ruutu, Pronger, Allen and whoever else and THEN Bertuzzi hit him? Same result. Same crime. Would he be allowed to sue then? Or would anything short of murder have been ok?


Maybe he can sue JQ for being so stupid to have him out there.


Actually I don't discount what you have to say as zero, I respect other opinions and positions here even if I am having a hard time respecting Moore's lawsuit. However, it seems that even Moore's own coaches didn't feel like it was settled by him picking his spot with Cooke so while you might find some hockey people who think that Moore was paid up with that fight, there are many who don't feel that way.
As for your accusation or question about how I personally would respond to having my career taken away by a criminal act. I agree that talk is cheap so whatever I protest about my own character is going to be unsubstantiated making it impossible to defend and unfair to ask. what can I say that you would believe?
I don't like Moore's actions before, during, and after the sucker punch that ended his playing career. I think that Bertuzzi proved to everyone what kind of player/person he is sooner than he would have otherwise and I am happy that he has moved on and found a spot somewhere else. The whole thing makes the sport look bad and perhaps that's what I dislike the most.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby nomad_0024 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:58 pm

8 years later and maybe finally this thing can be put to rest. What a joke.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby ESQ » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:14 pm

So I was really bored and decided to answer my own question regarding Moore's benefits that he has forfeited.

The CBA Article 24 deals with insurance. Poor Stevie was one game away from the 70 game threshold that would have doubled his disability insurance benefits, from $150k to $300k. There is also a $600k payout on the "Serious Disability" policy for career ending injuries due to blindness, dismemberment, paralysis, or brain injury. BUT, under 23.4, Moore had to release the NHL, NHLPA, all clubs, and their employees etc. for liability in order to receive the insurance money.

So by pursuing this lawsuit, Moore has forfeited $750,000 in insurance payouts. When you factor in the disbursements, costs, and his lawyer's 1/3 of any damages, he probably needs an award around $2 million to come out ahead. Had he succeeded in having the case heard in Colorado, he would have easily settled for far more than that, but in Canada he`ll be lucky to get that kind of award.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby ClamRussel » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:35 pm

ESQ wrote:Had he succeeded in having the case heard in Colorado, he would have easily settled for far more than that, but in Canada he`ll be lucky to get that kind of award.


That was also part of the sleeziness that proved he was interested in one thing & one thing only.

By forgoing any attempt at training towards a comeback plus suing the NHL he has put put a nail in his hockey career. Its called selling your soul to the devil. For money. It was inane to think one Ontario guy whacking another Ontario guy in BC should be heard in Colorado. Before all this lawsuit stuff started the guy had all the sympathy in the world. Today I'd reckon his approval rating would be in Gordo's neck of the woods (8-9%).
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby Canuck-One » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:00 pm

Jovorock wrote:
dhabums wrote:
Maybe when your kid is left unconscious and bleeding on the ice because of a sucker punch to the back of the head you'll come around. You know, when his lively hood and future are permanently affect. Hopefully you'll never have to find out.

If this happened to my kid and his name was Steve Moore I would of been ok with it. :D


I have to agree with Jovo. Then again my kid would never be running away after using his elbow to blindside a star player. If you are going to play a mans sport then act like a man. I still believe that Moore got what he deserved. I think that Raymond's injury is worse and you don't hear too much sniveling about that.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby dhabums » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:26 pm

nomad_0024 wrote:8 years later and maybe finally this thing can be put to rest. What a joke.


Wait for the appeal. :)
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby dhabums » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:30 pm

Canuck-One wrote:
Jovorock wrote:
dhabums wrote:
Maybe when your kid is left unconscious and bleeding on the ice because of a sucker punch to the back of the head you'll come around. You know, when his lively hood and future are permanently affect. Hopefully you'll never have to find out.

If this happened to my kid and his name was Steve Moore I would of been ok with it. :D


I have to agree with Jovo. Then again my kid would never be running away after using his elbow to blindside a star player. If you are going to play a mans sport then act like a man. I still believe that Moore got what he deserved. I think that Raymond's injury is worse and you don't hear too much sniveling about that.



Let's get this straight.

If Moore had fought 3 Canucks the night of the hit, then fought three Canucks the next game, then fought 2 Canucks the night his career ended, would you be ok with him suing Bertuzzi? You know, if it was your son acting like a man. Answer the question really carefully.

And my god man, the Raymond injury is not even relevant.
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Re: Bertuzzi/Moore

Postby Strangelove » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:16 pm

dhabums wrote:I applaud your bravado. But I bet if your livelihood is taken away from you due to a criminal act, you will consider and then definitely pursue legal action.


"definitely"

So anyone/everyone in Steve Moore's situation would choose legal action? Image
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