The Power Forward

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Southern_Canuck » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:52 pm

For those wondering if Gillis is feverishly trying to make a deal for a top 6 power forward...

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=374962

excerpt:
"We think we have a really strong team," Gillis said Thursday. "We don't really see a tremendous weakness.

"Of course there are certain players that you would love to have that are on other teams and (you) think they would fit in well here. They are impossible to get at this point. We are really confident in the group we have."

Gillis remains open to any deals that might come along.

"If something comes our way between now and the start of the season we are going to act upon it," he said. "You can't manufacture it.

"It's either there or not there."

Boston pushed Vancouver around in the final. The Bruins were the school yard bully while the Canucks were the A student having their lunch money robbed.

Gillis isn't prone to rash moves. He's analytical in his approach to making his team better, whether it's finding the right third-line centre or hiring a sleep doctor to determine the best travel arrangements.

That's why Gillis dismisses suggestions the Canucks need more grit in their lineup. Maybe a big, powerful forward that can bring a physical presence.

"We played the best teams in the league through the playoffs," said Gillis, who was named the NHL's top executive last season. "No one suggested we needed to have a different look.

"We got into a series with Boston. You can debate as long as you want. They were the better team. We had a lot of injuries and were unable to respond to certain situations."


Alrighty, then. Same "soft" top 6 approach (excluding Kesler), I guess. :(

I wasn't happy when Gillis signed Sturm - not because Sturm can't be a decent player, but because Vancouver already has Burrows, Samuelsson, Raymond, and even Hansen who all fill a similar role. They don't need more of the same - instead they need a Dustin Brown, David Backes type.

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Canuck-One » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:54 pm

I agree with you SC, but to get players of that caliber you would have to give up quite a bit. I can't envision what MG will do but I'm sure it will be a long and deliberate look before he makes a move. In the meantime I will still hope that he either signs a tough SOB or one of the current signings can get the job done.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Jovocop » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:03 pm

Southern_Canuck wrote:Alrighty, then. Same "soft" top 6 approach (excluding Kesler), I guess. :(

I wasn't happy when Gillis signed Sturm - not because Sturm can't be a decent player, but because Vancouver already has Burrows, Samuelsson, Raymond, and even Hansen who all fill a similar role. They don't need more of the same - instead they need a Dustin Brown, David Backes type.

S_C


Without any overpayment, I doubt Gillis could land anyone similar to the ones you mentioned above. All the NHL GMs want top six power forwards. The price for one is expensive to start with. When the other 29 GMs know that MG is desperate for one, the price for MG to acquire one drastically goes up.

Sturm is signed to temporarily replace Raymond. If Sturm plays well, MG would have some more chips to make a trade. On the other hand, if the Sturm's experiment fails, it won't hurt the team long term.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby dhabums » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:28 pm

Southern_Canuck wrote:Boston pushed Vancouver around in the final. The Bruins were the school yard bully while the Canucks were the A student having their lunch money robbed.
S_C


I tell ya, that one elusive power forward would have fixed everything.

You'd think we missed the playoffs last year. Or you'd think we are already trying to find a way to beat Boston in the Finals next year. We lost in game 7 of the dog gamned final. Pushed around or not, the point of the game is to win. No single player was going to fix the Finals. We were beaten by injuries and some great goaltending.

BTW kids, the A student ends up living a great life whilst the school yard bully usually ends up working graveyard shift.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Lancer » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:48 am

Canuck-One wrote:Without any overpayment, I doubt Gillis could land anyone similar to the ones you mentioned above. All the NHL GMs want top six power forwards. The price for one is expensive to start with. When the other 29 GMs know that MG is desperate for one, the price for MG to acquire one drastically goes up.


That's the thing - given Vancouver's success, what GM is going to be the slightest bit generous in dealing with MG? Barring some divine intervention, it's going to be near-impossible for MG to deal for one before the trading deadline - and his latest indications re: team consistency would speak against making such a deal so late in the season. We may as well put this idea on the shelf.

That said, if we can't bulk up at forward what about bulking up on D? If we can't get a forward stop them bullying our forwards, what about acquiring a D that will bully their forwards in turn in our end? Think about it, outside of Bieksa who on our D inspires any amount of fear in the opposition? Alberts will drop them but we can only hope he holds his own. You can add Rome into that category as well - solid physical D, but none who will intimidate anyone. Someone like Bryan Allen (hated losing him, but would Nonis have got Luongo without him?) would definitely help, but AV's game plan requires fast D who can get the puck out of the zone ASAP. Who would fit that bill and not cost us the farm? Is this not just another version of the power forward conundrum? That said, if a power forward can't be found, why not look at other solutions to the problem?

We'll see what the season brings. Who knows? We may get some development from within a-la Hodgson, Schroeder or one of the bit-players MG disgned this summer? The amount of money MG invested in player and prospect development has to bear fruit sometime.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Fred » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:42 am

Frankly I just don't like the chance this year or the immediate future of this roster taking the Cup. We may point to Detroit as our model ....but we're not Detroit and never will be, you'll never see Daniel dropping his gloves like Datsyuk did or a HHOF defenseman like Lidstrom or a power forward like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Fransen, Holmstrom working and dominating the front of the net like those guys do.

Our goals are pretty goals during the season ....but pretty goals are infrequent to say the least come the play-offs.

As Lancer mentions we don't clear our net very well either. MG has built an attacking Defense but it lacks muscle. When Marchant can and is prepared to muck it up in our crease...all 5' 9" of him .......you know you have a problem and that excludes Lucic, Thorton and Horton. And when Marchant can score with a limp wrister from the dot high on Luongo we have a problem there as well.

Sure we were hurt by injuries, but in part that is because we're physically lacking and come out on the wrong side of any physical play, we're destined to have injuries with this roster.

As I have said before I believe MG is seeing the light. Between his change of philosophy for FA signings this summer and this years draft he's pounding the side walk trying to locate some size. No more Schroeders for MG it'll be Jensen, Grenier and LaBate types from this point on
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Lancer » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:47 am

Fred wrote:As Lancer mentions we don't clear our net very well either. MG has built an attacking Defense but it lacks muscle. When Marchant can and is prepared to muck it up in our crease...all 5' 9" of him .......you know you have a problem and that excludes Lucic, Thorton and Horton. And when Marchant can score with a limp wrister from the dot high on Luongo we have a problem there as well.


Fred, I think our D has muscle but no meanness. It may be that the game plan calls for them blocking out or tying up forwards instead of cross-checking and knocking them on their asses when the puck gets near them. In general, they do tie up and neutralize forwards that way quite well. But I'd rather have the opposition limping out of Vancouver with an ambulance in tow - even if they won - rather than them strolling out of there with a loss but otherwise unmolested.

Punishing teams on the scoreboard works in the regular season but punishing the body is just as important if not more important in the playoffs. Would the SJ series have been so short if Rome hadn't taken out Thornton's shoulder in Game 4? What if somebody could have taken out Chara they way they took out Edler? That's why it kinda stung to let Torres go (although there may have been other factors at play), but hopefully guys like Bitz and Duco can make up for it. That's why I say we should look at more physical options than at forward. Even getting Luongo to lay the lumber a-la Hextall or Billy Smith would be a step in the right direction.

The rest of the league hates Vancouver regardless, so why not give them a decent justification for it if it's there already?
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby damonberryman » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:39 am

What do you people think about Chris Neil? I have always thought he could fill the role of an enforcer with some upside to his game beside fighting. He seems to be one of the breed that lives between the levels of the tough and skilled power forward and the thug. If not him then someone who is not top end but not in the goon squad. Van does not need a pure thug but I kind of agree with canuck about the need for ANYONE to step and and do Marchand. I felt ashamed of the team I love when he was allowed to get away with it regarding....well, you all know that story. I am glad Glass left. He totally fanned on a goal and did not take on Marchand. Who does he think he is....Stamkos or Perry? He was there for one reason and he failed. I do not care if AV told him to sit or not. He needed to do it for his team mates.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby damonberryman » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:57 am

[
in these 2 players. Smyl was one of the most feared hitter in the league and tough I can only think of Stan Johnathon as more feared tough guy pound for pound...right up there with Rypien or better but could play the game and at one time the leading scorer on the team. No teams messed around with the Gradin, Smyl & Fraser line.... or you paid the price literally. Good tough players who could play....just what we need today IMO

I still recall the mess Smyl made of Nystrom and when you think Nystrom was considered a heavy and beat John Wensik. The game was I guess different Broad Street Bullys Schultz etc no third man in penalty and deffinitley no instigator[/quote]

Steamer was not the toughest player on that line. I remember Fraser demolishing Terry O'Reilly in Boston. His left hook was devastating. However, if we are going pound for pound i agree with the comparison to Jonathon. Stan was a Native Canadian from the rez in Montreal. Fought everyone in the goon era. Usually won the fight. The one who played for us who I put into the pound for tough pound category is Bobby Schmautz. He could score and lord could he fight.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Southern_Canuck » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:32 pm

dhabums wrote:"Boston pushed Vancouver around in the final. The Bruins were the school yard bully while the Canucks were the A student having their lunch money robbed."
The Canadian Press

I tell ya, that one elusive power forward would have fixed everything.

You'd think we missed the playoffs last year. Or you'd think we are already trying to find a way to beat Boston in the Finals next year. We lost in game 7 of the dog gamned final. Pushed around or not, the point of the game is to win. No single player was going to fix the Finals. We were beaten by injuries and some great goaltending.


You quoted the Canadian Press, but attributed it to me. Just another typical quality post from dhabums!

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Re: The Power Forward

Postby ESQ » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:14 pm

Fred wrote:Frankly I just don't like the chance this year or the immediate future of this roster taking the Cup. We may point to Detroit as our model ....but we're not Detroit and never will be, you'll never see Daniel dropping his gloves like Datsyuk did or a HHOF defenseman like Lidstrom or a power forward like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Fransen, Holmstrom working and dominating the front of the net like those guys do.


Come on, Datsyuk has 2 career fights in 10 years, you're telling me that has any impact on the franchise's success? Plus, for all the other players you mentioned, Detroit got one fewer goal, 54 more goals against, and a second round exit.

And I get the Steamer love, but in his career with the Canucks, the team made it out of the first round once. Great player, but having him as a key part of your team does not equal success.

Also, note Gillis' word from the article: the players you're talking about aren't expensive, or will mortgage the future, they are impossible to get. The only way you get one of them is by taking a risk on them when they've messed up, are coming off a serious injury or a bad year, or ballooned to 285 lbs and their team management has had enough...
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Fred » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:42 am

Smyl just like Henrik went to the SC finals, he lead the team at times with the most goal, most assists and most PIM's he's exactly what the current team needs. When he was speared in the face in Philly he beat the snot out the guy that did it. He hammered players on the boards with ferocity making the likes of Torres look like an amateur at it. And if any one raised a question about himself or his teams mates about courage then he made them regret it....big time. He was the heart and soul of the team no one comes even close today. Brad Marchant would be a quiet pussy cat if Smyl was around and believe me he would have made Chara life real difficult. In short he was a winner. He wasn't always surrounded by an All Star cast The Red Wings scouts pleaded for them to take Smyl at the draft. Management said he lacked NHL speed they were wrong. Remember the Gradin, Fraser, Smyl line was a top line in the league and as well as score goals they played with heart, work ethic and toughness.....at the same time, every game

Datsyuk, yeah he only had two fights but that's two more than the Sedins combined and here's the difference he will stand up for himself. He gives as much as he gets. And no that is not the difference in franchise success but there's more mustard on the Red Wings by a long mark than there is with the current Canucks roster.

I recall an article in the Province talking about Smyl in his New Westminister days when they speculated that Smyl may at some point put an opponent right through the end boards at Queens Park Arena :D he got respect for that and defensemen looked to move the puck r e a l quick when Smyl was on the ice. I never saw Smyl take a night off....never
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby BladesofSteel » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:29 am

^^^Gretzky once said the Steamer was the toughest opponent he ever faced (I'm paraphrasing of course)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch. I wholeheartedly believe that with Sammuelsson in the lineup during the finals, the grit quotient in the top six would have gone up substantially. Sure he's not a prototypical Neely, but talk about a shitty guy to line up against. He doesn't back down from a scrum, and he gets as angry as any player on this roster. He will punch/hack 'n whack right back and was sorely missed all series.

Anyway, we're just going around in circles now, but somehow this club managed to get to game seven on a largely limping lineup, if you add a relatively injury-free Kesler and Samuelsson, this series could have very well been over sooner.

Every team would love to have a PF in their lineup. This club has no weak link and should very well be in contention once again in '12.
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Rudypoo » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:53 am

Southern_Canuck wrote:
BTW kids, the A student ends up living a great life whilst the school yard bully usually ends up working graveyard shift.


I love the logic, but wouldn't that mean that the Canucks will win 3 Cups in the next 10 years while the Bruins never make it past the 1st round during that time?

Sure feels to me like the bully has won the day. :(
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Re: The Power Forward

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:20 pm

Rudypoo wrote:
Southern_Canuck wrote:
BTW kids, the A student ends up living a great life whilst the school yard bully usually ends up working graveyard shift.


I love the logic, but wouldn't that mean that the Canucks will win 3 Cups in the next 10 years while the Bruins never make it past the 1st round during that time?

Sure feels to me like the bully has won the day. :(



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