Hodgson Outlook

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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby the Dogsalmon on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:43 pm

Tciso wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:i just dont see where Hodgson fits into our system...sell him for what we can get or make him part of a package deal...lets not waste another first round pick...


Hmm. I totally disagree with you. I see him fitting in excellently with Malholtra and Hansen on the 3rd line next season as a checking/offense line. At 22, Coho has lots of time to grow, and as a smart kid, I expect we'll see him on the 2nd PP a lot. Selling him now makes almost no sense. And, we have been burned way too many times trading away top prospects without letting them develop (Can Neely, and Peca come to mind)

Twins/Burrows
Sturm/Kesler/Sammuelson
Coho/Manny/Jansen
?? /Lapiere/Higgins

With MayRay on the out looking in after he gets healthy/



at 22 he cannot even crack our lineup...half his career is over and he has not even got a regular spot in any NHL teams lineup...i dont dislike Cody Hodgson...he is just not the type of player that fits our present needs today...he is playing against men now...not boys...i do hope that i am painfully wrong and he develops into a 100+ point man...
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby dbr on Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:46 pm

It's times like this that it would be nice to go back and review the dogsalmon's views on Canucks prospects of the past, like Michael Grabner or Corey Schneider or Ryan Kesler..
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby the Dogsalmon on Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:55 pm

dbr wrote:It's times like this that it would be nice to go back and review the dogsalmon's views on Canucks prospects of the past, like Michael Grabner or Corey Schneider or Ryan Kesler..



dont forget the Sedins,Bieksa and Salo...over the years i have traded every single goddamn player that has played for us at one time or another...
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby Tciso on Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:32 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:at 22 he cannot even crack our lineup...half his career is over and he has not even got a regular spot in any NHL teams lineup...i dont dislike Cody Hodgson...he is just not the type of player that fits our present needs today...he is playing against men now...not boys...i do hope that i am painfully wrong and he develops into a 100+ point man...


whoa! so, he's gonna be done by 24, or 25? Wtf? 25 is when most of these forwards just start to hit their stride. CoHo is still just 21, and missed at least a season with injuries. And, he fits well into our system. In 2 years, as a well seasoned RFA, he will either be our #3 center, or a top 6 winger. If we just try to look 1 year at a time, our team will be shittier than both the NYI and Leaves combined. Our present need is a new up and coming forward to replace our 30 somethings in a few years.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby the Dogsalmon on Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:51 pm

the problem is that an average NHL career is about 5.5 seasons(I believe)...Hodgson is already 22...now I can tell you from experience that you dont get faster as you get older...and Cody was already a slug...are you putting it together...its a dirty hole for certain and i hope i am wrong...but...
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby Aaronp18 on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:09 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:the problem is that an average NHL career is about 5.5 seasons(I believe)...Hodgson is already 22...now I can tell you from experience that you dont get faster as you get older...and Cody was already a slug...are you putting it together...its a dirty hole for certain and i hope i am wrong...but...


Yeah but you're assuming the average NHL career then starts at the age of 19 if you think Hodgson is half way past his best before date.

You don't want to rush anything, when did the Sedin's hit their prime? Kesler Is just getting to his. We really only have Cody coming up behind them. Is really been great timing having the Sedin's at their peak and Kesler reaching his when we are contending for the Cup, of course this is one of the reasons we are contenders right now.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby Zedlee on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:41 pm

Tciso wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:Twins/Burrows
Sturm/Kesler/Sammuelson
Coho/Manny/Jansen
?? /Lapiere/Higgins

With MayRay on the out looking in after he gets healthy/


This lineup is going to beat Boston next year? Not a chance.
Where is the grit?
Coho is not a winger...he's a center on a team stacked at center. No room.
He's a quality kid and will be a solid NHL'er some day, but can we afford to develop him?
Trade bait. Let's hope Gillis can swing a good deal for him.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby the Dogsalmon on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:05 pm

i didnt write that shit...
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby ClamRussel on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:29 pm

Zedlee wrote: Coho is not a winger...he's a center on a team stacked at center. No room.
He's a quality kid and will be a solid NHL'er some day, but can we afford to develop him?
Trade bait. Let's hope Gillis can swing a good deal for him.


Nonsense. Yzerman, Sundin, Messier & Marleau all played wing for stints in their development. Even Kesler played alot on the wing. Nothing wrong w/ breaking a center in at wing then shifting him back over. Look at Claude Giroux and Daniel Briere. Both centers who had to play wing because the Flyers already had Carter & Richards.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby Zedlee on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:41 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
Zedlee wrote: Coho is not a winger...he's a center on a team stacked at center. No room.
He's a quality kid and will be a solid NHL'er some day, but can we afford to develop him?
Trade bait. Let's hope Gillis can swing a good deal for him.


Nonsense. Yzerman, Sundin, Messier & Marleau all played wing for stints in their development. Even Kesler played alot on the wing. Nothing wrong w/ breaking a center in at wing then shifting him back over. Look at Claude Giroux and Daniel Briere. Both centers who had to play wing because the Flyers already had Carter & Richards.


Ha ha...and comparing Hodgson to Hall of Famers isn't nonsense?

I will be most pleasantly surprised if Coho can break in on wing, but I don't see it. I hope the kid surprises us all...but he might bring a nice, more useful return in a trade. We need a legitimate top 6 winger NOW if we want to win the Cup while this group is in their prime. Gillis has to consider seeing what he can get for Coho.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby Farhan Lalji on Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:56 pm

ClamRussel wrote:Nonsense. Yzerman, Sundin, Messier & Marleau all played wing for stints in their development. Even Kesler played alot on the wing. Nothing wrong w/ breaking a center in at wing then shifting him back over. Look at Claude Giroux and Daniel Briere. Both centers who had to play wing because the Flyers already had Carter & Richards.


Well said, and I agree 100%.

Clam - I think you mentioned awhile back that you wouldn't mind seeing Hodgson play with the twins a bit? Just for the record - I completely agree with that. Do it at as an experiment and see how CoHo respond. It should be quite the learning experience for him.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby ESQ on Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:36 pm

I thought when he got into the playoffs he looked much improved from the reg season, much better speed. I am fully confident that he can be a 40-50 point player in the right situation, and my confidence that he'll be better than that has greatly increased.

I guess Clam's examples do show that a center can break in at winger, but not vice versa (although that is probably self-evident). Should he make the team as a winger out of camp (can't see where he'd fit though, even without MayRay), my expectations would be very low, maybe 20-25 points if he gets a full 82 games. Same would go for 2012-2013.

The question is, can you get somebody who will contribute more than what even the most optimistic of us expect from Coho? I wouldn't trade him for a middling 2nd/3rd line winger to compete with Sturm, Raymond, Sammy, Higgins, or a depth D.

I'm not foolish enough to think we can flip him into the 60 point bruising power forward on a cheap contract that people in other threads think actually exists, or that he will get us Weber. But if we're going to make a move for a substantial piece that improves the team, Hodgson is definitely expendable.

I'm also not convinced that we can completely rely on Malhotra. Yes the man is fantastic in the room, he awesome on face-offs and his work ethic is second to none but he has just come off a very serious injury that may require more surgeries before the season begins as HW suggested.
And even before that injury he wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire with an ability to provide that key centre for the second PP unit, and his line 5 on 5 was streaky at best. We forget how frustrating that line was due to the sentimental, feel good story of his miraculous recovery to play in the Finals.

As far as I'm concerned our third line centre spot is not as secure as one might think.


I'd say Manny and the third line in general was consistently inconsistent, which is all you can expect from them. No, they're not going to score you a big goal every other game, but there were stretches spaced out over the season where that line was our best. I can think of two stretches, one early and one late, where they won us several hockey games. Manny was on pace for 35 pts, Hansen and Torres both at 29 pts, for a checking line that is very good.

I do not agree that streaky is the best you can say for that line, how about "cheap", "physical", "won big faceoffs in the defensive zone," "as productive as you'd expect from a 3rd line".

Did anybody observe anything in Manny's play in the finals to suggest his eye was bothering him? Conditioning/game speed yes, but I think his vision won't be an issue once he gets used to the reduced vision and he is no longer playing in a cage.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby BladesofSteel on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:17 pm

ESQ wrote:I guess Clam's examples do show that a center can break in at winger, but not vice versa

IIRC, Mats Sundin was drafted as a RW and began his career there with Burnaby Joe and Ricci as the Nords' 1-2.

I believe the Leafs moved him down the middle out of pure necessity.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby ClamRussel on Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:58 pm

Zedlee wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Zedlee wrote: Coho is not a winger...he's a center on a team stacked at center. No room.
He's a quality kid and will be a solid NHL'er some day, but can we afford to develop him?
Trade bait. Let's hope Gillis can swing a good deal for him.


Nonsense. Yzerman, Sundin, Messier & Marleau all played wing for stints in their development. Even Kesler played alot on the wing. Nothing wrong w/ breaking a center in at wing then shifting him back over. Look at Claude Giroux and Daniel Briere. Both centers who had to play wing because the Flyers already had Carter & Richards.


Ha ha...and comparing Hodgson to Hall of Famers isn't nonsense?

I will be most pleasantly surprised if Coho can break in on wing, but I don't see it. I hope the kid surprises us all...but he might bring a nice, more useful return in a trade. We need a legitimate top 6 winger NOW if we want to win the Cup while this group is in their prime. Gillis has to consider seeing what he can get for Coho.


I wasn't comparing him to HOFers, it was to make a point which you're choosing to sidestep. Besides, were they all HOFers at 21? Are Marleau, Giroux & Briere HOFers? The point is it can be done and can be very effective. There is certainly alot less responsibility & pressure to start out on the wing. If we could flip him for the top 6 power forward we need I'm all for it but I just don't see that happening. Unless some unbelievable offer comes up I would say Cody's upside is far greater than what he could provide in a trade.

Unless its a disaster its worth an extended look....live w/ his mistakes as he develops and the payoff would be later in the season or playoffs. If it doesn't work out then AV cuts bait and at least it was given a go. We have at least until November until Raymond returns....possibly the new year.

Farhan Lalji wrote:Well said, and I agree 100%.

Clam - I think you mentioned awhile back that you wouldn't mind seeing Hodgson play with the twins a bit? Just for the record - I completely agree with that. Do it at as an experiment and see how CoHo respond. It should be quite the learning experience for him.


Yes indeed I did say that. I really see that working well in that I believe he thinks the game well like the Sedins...and are all about the same speed out there...it would be good to have them take CoHo under their wings. The line would be missing the speed & tenacity of Burrows but he'd be reunited w/ Kesler which is also a good thing. Be worth trying anyways if Gillis isn't able to land a top 6 winger before the season begins.
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Re: Hodgson Outlook

Postby BCReefer on Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:16 am

I don't think CH will ever get a fair chance under AV.
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