US Erection 12 *AND* 16

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UWSaint
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by UWSaint » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:50 pm

Per wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:57 pm
I think the Germans had higher ideals than that. I mean, they produced some of the greatest authors, composers and philosophers of the time. They can't all have been simplistic warmongers.
My cultural point is that their art and philosophy--which was sometimes beyond great--also contributed to conditions that made Naziism more likely. Converting the individual greatness of romantics into a national-collectivist German gestalt. That was the pre WW-2 zeitgeist....
Per wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:57 pm
[Economic conditions, blah blah blah]
Sure they were bad in Germany. They were bad in a lot of places. And bad conditions make political revolution and extremism more likely, whether that's fascism, communism, anarchism, what have you. But only in Germany was it Naziism. And Naziism was orders of magnitude different that Italian, Spanish, or Portuguese fascism.

Put differently, the Italians faced similar conditions and experienced some success with Mussolini. But it didn't take murdering all the jews or trying to take over the world. The Italian culture lacks the anguish and aspirations for greatness as comprised the German zeitgeist. Plus, the Italians had better food and I am guessing better sex. :shock:
Per wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:57 pm
And I don't think that racism was a unique German trait.
Look at what the Belgians did in Congo, the Turks did to the Armenians and Kurds or the British in eg India or Australia.
Or what the French did in Algeria and Vietnam.Nationalism and racism were commonplace in the 19th and early 20th century.

Heck, when Norwegian gypsies were released from the concentration camps in Germany/Poland at the end of WW2, Norway refused to let them return home... :|
I know that racism isn't uniquely German. That's part of my point as to why Naziism needed Germany. It isn't that Germans were necessarily more racist than other Europeans, it is that the cultural conditions in Germany (which are not inherently racist, but are uniquely unbound) enabled racism to become part of a mass movement that resulted in extraordinary discrimination, state-sanctioned terrorism, and ultimately the systematic killing of millions -- and not even to preserve power (which is why Stalin was fond of killing lots of people).

So the Norwegians didn't let the gypsies return....They also didn't try to kill them all. Racism may be born of one sentiment, but not all racist acts are equivalent.

And I want to be clear -- I am not saying that German culture necessarily leads to Naziism. I am saying that Naziism in German culture has a far greater chance of taking off than in other cultures that place a greater value on reason and moderation.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by UWSaint » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:56 pm

Per wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:57 pm
Immigrants is what made America America in the first place, and it was immigrants that made America great.
I concede that America is great. I like Canada a fair bit, too.... As for Sweden, I've never visited. But I like many of your hockey players and enjoyed your attempt to sack Paris in 815 or whenever that was. Thinking big!
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Reefer2 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:00 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:36 pm
This Per/UW back and forth has been great.

Thanks to both!
Agreed.

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Topper » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:13 pm

Hilarious that this got sidetracked to German history.

Donald is President of the United States. He is looking out for US interests, not Canadian or Swedish interests and he is out to get the best deals possible for the US.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:48 pm

Topper wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:13 pm
Hilarious that this got sidetracked to German history.

Donald is President of the United States. He is looking out for US interests, not Canadian or Swedish interests and he is out to get the best deals possible for the US.
Nah, he'll just do what he always does. Stir things up to get maximum media exposure,sign a lot of deals that he never intends to make good on, siphon of as much money as possible to himself, declare bankrupcy, walk away and let someone else pick up the pieces. He's just a con man, but a good con man, people actually believe in him despite his track record.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:35 am

UWSaint wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:56 pm
As for Sweden, I've never visited. But I like many of your hockey players and enjoyed your attempt to sack Paris in 815 or whenever that was. Thinking big!
Yeah, the sack of Paris...

In general the vikings that raided western Europe tended to be Danes or Norwegians while Swedish vikings usually headed for the Baltics and controlled the Russian waterways all the ways down to Constantinopel and evendid business with Baghdad. Borders weren't really set though, and large parts of southern Sweden were considered part of Denmark back then. Yet we know from finds of British coins and inscription on rune stones that quite a few Swedes were involved in the expeditions to England.

That being said, Frankish chronicles attest that the attack on Paris was lead by a viking called Ragnar. Traditionally many have attributed this to the legendary Ragnar Lodbrok, who supposedly was a Swedish king. There are many legends about him, but it has been hard to verify him as a historic person. His sons, Ivar the Boneless, Sigurd Snake-eye, White-shirt, Ubba and Björn Ironside are confirmed historical people though and three or four of them were part of The Great Heathen Army that wrecked havoc on the British isles and controlled large parts of it from 865 to 878 AD.

The sagas attribute this invasion to Ragnar's sons wanting to avenge Ragnar's death at the hand of the Northumbrian king Aella in 862 AD.
They supposedly captured Aella and performed "the blood eagle" on him, ie cut off the ribs on both sides of the spines and pulled out the lungs, so that they looked like wings that flap as the air goes in and out of them.

Anyway, Björn Ironside, who is a confirmed early Swedish king and who was the son of Ragnar Lodbrok, who may or not may be the Ragnar who sacked Paris, did actually try to sack Rome in 860 AD.
Unfortunately, there weren't really any big cities in Scandinavia, so Björn and his fleet mistook the city of Luna for Rome, and attacked and conquered it. As they were informed that this was not Rome, they were outraged, burnt the city to the ground and had all the people there either killed or sold as slaves. Heading back toward Spain, after having raided parts of Sicily and the North African coast, they ran into a Muslim armada that sank most of their ships. To boast moral they then conquered Pamplona on their way home.

Anyway, when it comes to thinking big, Carl XII, also attempted to invade Moscow as late as 1707-09. He failed. Then spent five years in Bender, in present Ukraine, negotiating with the Ottoman emperor to convince him to attack Russia together with the Swedish troops. Eventually the emperor declined, and the Swedish army had to fight its way back home to Sweden.
This was supposedly the origin of the Swedish meatballs, as a similar dish, köfte, is rather common in Turkish cuisine.
The Swedish soldiers also grew accustomed to coffee, tobacco and arrak during their extended stay in the Ottoman empire, and brought these habits home with them.

Which brings us to our biggest mistake of all time; the founding of Russia.

As mentioned earlier, Swedish vikings controlled the waterways of Russia, and a group of vikings from the Roslagen area, referred to as Rus, lead by a guy named Rurik, became rulers of first Novgorod and then Kiev as well. Over time the Rus controlled an increasing area, they assimilated with the local slavs, and their kingdom eventually became what we know as Russia. Damn, that one has really come back to bite us in the ass. :evil:
Last edited by Per on Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by 5thhorseman » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:15 am

I didn't log on this morning expecting to learn the origin of Swedish meatballs :o

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:11 am

5thhorseman wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:15 am
I didn't log on this morning expecting to learn the origin of Swedish meatballs :o
Huh. Really? Well, you also learnt how to do the blood eagle on your enemies.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by 5thhorseman » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:36 am

Per wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:11 am
5thhorseman wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:15 am
I didn't log on this morning expecting to learn the origin of Swedish meatballs :o
Huh. Really? Well, you also learnt how to do the blood eagle on your enemies.
I guess Dank had that one in his back pocket but didn't want to risk a major in a Stanley Cup final game.

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:25 pm

5thhorseman wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:36 am
Per wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:11 am
5thhorseman wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:15 am
I didn't log on this morning expecting to learn the origin of Swedish meatballs :o
Huh. Really? Well, you also learnt how to do the blood eagle on your enemies.
I guess Dank had that one in his back pocket but didn't want to risk a major in a Stanley Cup final game.
Yeah, it'd be hard to do without removing your gloves, and that's an automatic major, isn't it?
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:09 pm

Slightly more on topic. Trump's trade wars are getting costly for Americans:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnbrinkl ... trade-war/
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Strangelove » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:23 pm

UWSaint wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:46 am
Per wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:55 am
Is it as simple as Colbert suggested the other night; “yeah, I’m not really happy with his racism, but… you know, lower taxes…”?
Because frankly, you know, that's how a lot of Germans felt back in 1933.
Yes, the Trump is Hitler meme. No better example of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Yeeeuuuup!

And ole Per has been at it for quite some time now, example:

http://www.canuckscorner.com/forums/vie ... 97#p307797

I concur with your diagnosis of Trump Derangement Syndrome...
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by RoyalDude » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:23 am

What most Americans don’t understand about the Electoral College Vote is that it’s a vestige of slavery. The reason it came to be

Don’t ya just love America

Let’s make it “white” again
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by micky107 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:00 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:23 am
What most Americans don’t understand about the Electoral College Vote is that it’s a vestige of slavery. The reason it came to be

Don’t ya just love America

Let’s make it “white” again
And get rid of the red and blue? :shock:
Well, maybe the red. Not the BLUE for "God's sake. ;)
"evolution"

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Topper » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:18 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:23 am
What most Americans don’t understand about the Electoral College Vote is that it’s a vestige of slavery. The reason it came to be

Don’t ya just love America

Let’s make it “white” again
What most BC NDP/Greens who hate Trump fail to realize, the Electoral College is Proportional Representation that they crave so much.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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