US Erection 12 *AND* 16

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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:08 am

griz wrote:Trump = unknown quantity, Hillary = known criminal. Your choice is?
Do you honestly think trump is an unknown quantity? You don't think we know what his values are? You think we don't know what he's all about?

I'm not a fan of Hillary - but if you want to compare 'criminal' records.

trump's been sued 1300 times. Just the kind of guy you want running a powerful country.
(the latest case? He stiffed a painted $35,000 of a $200,000 project - he lost.)

As for Clinton, she has a lot of baggage, but as far as I know, she hasn't been convicted of anything. Is she corrupt? Likely. But the Republicans have been after her for a long time and how many 'Benghazi' reports have their been? (vs how many on the embassies attacked under Republican watch?)

My choice? Since I've moved here, my advice was always to vote 3rd party. Until the dems and reps lose their monopoly, nothing will change. It will be all about making money for the military industrial complex, the banks and the 1%. trump will not change that. Clinton will not change that. The next dem/rep president after them will not change that.

trump is a clown and nothing more. He has no business being in the white house - and even he knows it. Why else would his VP candidates be told they'll be in charge of foreign and domestic policy.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by micky107 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:32 am

Cornuck wrote:
griz wrote:Trump = unknown quantity, Hillary = known criminal. Your choice is?
Do you honestly think trump is an unknown quantity? You don't think we know what his values are? You think we don't know what he's all about?

I'm not a fan of Hillary - but if you want to compare 'criminal' records.

trump's been sued 1300 times. Just the kind of guy you want running a powerful country.
(the latest case? He stiffed a painted $35,000 of a $200,000 project - he lost.)

As for Clinton, she has a lot of baggage, but as far as I know, she hasn't been convicted of anything. Is she corrupt? Likely. But the Republicans have been after her for a long time and how many 'Benghazi' reports have their been? (vs how many on the embassies attacked under Republican watch?)

My choice? Since I've moved here, my advice was always to vote 3rd party. Until the dems and reps lose their monopoly, nothing will change. It will be all about making money for the military industrial complex, the banks and the 1%. trump will not change that. Clinton will not change that. The next dem/rep president after them will not change that.

trump is a clown and nothing more. He has no business being in the white house - and even he knows it. Why else would his VP candidates be told they'll be in charge of foreign and domestic policy.
If there was an alternative party, as you and probably countless millions would love to see, can you think of a recognizable name to lead it?
No rush, take your time, it's a killer question.
I'm going to give it some thought and see if I can think of anyone.
Oh ya, they have to be alive....
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by damonberryman » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:00 am

Arachnid wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Cornuck wrote:A lot of his numbers come from the Election offices and other 'official' sources.

Sure's a "lefty", but I haven't read anything to see that he's lying. If you have sources, I'd like to read them.

Well "lying lefty" an adage used in certain circles.

But it's hard to trust a guy who alleges the GOP stole the 2004 Presidential election.

And who is presently circulating an article entitled:

"Nine Ways the GOP Will Steal the 2012 Elections". :roll:

Not sure if the numbers you quoted are accurate or not, might believe them if they came from a source other than Palast.

Got any links to those "official sources"?

This is a guy who has been pissing on republicans for decades.

“This is Wisconsin, this is the place where you had some guy pour a beer on the head of a Republican State Senator? No, no, no, that’s all wrong. You can’t do that. That’s just wrong. I’m from New York. If you’re going to pour beer on a Republican, you have to drink it first.” - Greg Palast

Funny, but for all I know this schmuck is only good for a laugh!

Here's a guy who seems to dispute the way Palast arrives at his conclusions:

http://equalvote.blogspot.ca/2004_11_01 ... 6062163291

http://equalvote.blogspot.ca/2004_11_01 ... 8852065824
I hope the Repubelick'n & DemonKrafts kill each other off like the inbred vermin they are. Right Left, both sides couldn't be more wrong. The US system is broken. Period.

http://charleshughsmith.blogspot.ca/201 ... t=FaceBook

Like usual, you Judeo-Christians are wrong...the end of the world doesn't happen on December 21st 2012, it already happened and you missed it whilst looking up Snookie's skirt...better to fade away or burn out eh?!
Some of you guys are really drunk on Maple Leaf kool aid. The system down here is not working in many ways but in other ways (black man elected President) it is working just fine. Political correctness demands we assign blame to both parties and I generally agree with this, but not here in the USA. When a black man was elected, gridlock became a spiritual value in the Republican party. Mitch McConnel actually came out and stated that the Republicans would be the party of 'no' and the only goal was to see the president serve only one term. Of course, that worked out well.

Now Barack is leaving and either Hillary or Donald will take over. It is difficult for me to imagine Donald as leader but not impossible. The racism, resentment against income disparity, loss of good manufacturing jobs, the busting of unions (thanks Reagan right?), and most of all...globalization is just flat pissing uneducated white men off. They are no longer certain they are the king of the hill.

I have lived down here for 26 years and if there is a more zenophobic country in the West I am not aware of it. Americans really believe they are exceptional. Exceptional enough that a man with a GED should be entitled to a job in a plant that pays him enough to not only raise his family, but to have two cars and a bunch of expensive toys. Now the only men who have that are prison guards who with a GED average about 60-70 thousand per year. The rest of this socioeconomic class are working for close to minimum wage due to their job having fucked off overseas. Are those folks pissed and I get it. Globalization means having to do more with less for the average schmuck like me.

However, I deeply object to those who think Donald is going to fix it. Many of the posters on this site are from the West Coast as am I. I did go live in Montreal for some years and became familiar with a lot of Jews who have a form of humour called 'kibitizing'. It is very big in NYC and Donald uses it all the time to charm the hicks from the Rust Belt. His shrugs, mouth movements and his whole delivery are straight out of Borough Park in Brooklyn which is deeply Jewish. Some of the best comedians ever come out of this tradition and Donald has it down. He is funny and charming as long as you do not take him seriously. If you do take it for real I have a bridge to sell you and it is also in Brooklyn.

Let's review a bit. He is going to bomb the shit out of ISIS. Cue the applause from the hick dumbasses.
He is going to make America safe again. The crime in America is at a record low. Cue the applause from the hicks.
He is going to make you rich or at least able to afford your lost toys. Cue...
He is going to build a great wall
He is going to deport 11 million people
Tear up the Iran deal (involving all the major Western Powers)
He may not come to the aid of our NATO allies if they have not paid their dues. America sells over 70% of the worlds armaments. Guess who their main customers are. Yep. The allies and we are talking real money here.
He wants to put America first. When has America not put itself first? Does anybody really think they are involved everywhere on the globe for charitable reasons?
He wants to make America great again. Huh? WTFs that mean?

For anyone on this board who supports him for any other reason than wanting to bring on the revolution faster, do us a favour and remove yourself from the genetic pool. As you can see by Trump's support there are enough dumb asses in the world without you taking up space.

If I have offended anyone....good. Maybe it will cause you to use the 3.5 pounds of cottage cheese stuffed into your noggin. Plus I will visit Van again one day soon and will buy anyone a beer who agrees or disagrees with me. I'Il will be at the Princeton if it remains open in the rapidly spreading yuppufying of my home town.

Hillary is the best of a Hobson's choice, but not just by a little, but a lot. Sure she is a politico but she is tough and smart. She is less than perfect. The world will miss the first president to serve without starting a new war, but Barack is gone. Someone has to take over. I would have preferred Biden or many others but she is what we got, and much like Obama's skin colour, I suspect much of the venom directed against her (not all by any means) is due to her having breasts. Those older white dudes are really bitter about the last 30 or so years or since NAFTA showed up. Remember that and who signed off on it?

Anyhow, take it or leave it. This election means a lot to me because I have Americans I love. If it was not for that I could give a shit.

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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:12 am

micky107 wrote: If there was an alternative party, as you and probably countless millions would love to see, can you think of a recognizable name to lead it?
No rush, take your time, it's a killer question.
I'm going to give it some thought and see if I can think of anyone.
Oh ya, they have to be alive....
The sad part is that this can't and won't happen overnight. The Libertarians have had ample time to get serious, but they instead cater to the wingnuts and can't be taken seriously.

As for who would lead it? I could see someone like Sanders get a 3rd party started, but it would not attract the centrists. Over time, the ebb and flow would hopefully move the dialog left of center and who knows who would emerge.

If you're expecting a quick fix, then it isn't going to happen. I've been down here 25 years and there's been no progress, only a regression as the dinosaurs flail about in their death throes.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Puck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:47 am

There are some great posts in here, guys. Keep 'em comin'.

I'd say most voters are hoping to live like their parents did, but with 25-50% more money to spend on toys. Call it early '60s plus WiFi. Whichever candidate can get them closer to that gets their vote. It's the same reason all we ever hear for campaign promises is "...keep taxes low, to keep more money in the pockets of hard-working ___________"

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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:05 pm

Puck wrote:There are some great posts in here, guys. Keep 'em comin'.

I'd say most voters are hoping to live like their parents did, but with 25-50% more money to spend on toys. Call it early '60s plus WiFi. Whichever candidate can get them closer to that gets their vote. It's the same reason all we ever hear for campaign promises is "...keep taxes low, to keep more money in the pockets of hard-working ___________"
I'm not so sure it all about taxes and money in the pocket. What people hate down here is the perceived waste of government dollars. For the left, it's the wasted money on wars. For the right, it's wasted money on social programs.

As for the hard working _______, they get fucked no matter who's in charge. The corporations lobby and get their laws and trade deals, the unions get busted and the workers watch their jobs disappear, or they work longer hours, or they have worse working conditions - but the profits increase and shift of money from the middle class to the shareholders gets greater.

Sure - cut taxes (usually for the top earners) then try to figure out how to pay for the infrastructure. It's tough down here because once the tea party loonies took hold of the repubs, it's been all about cutting taxes, but nothing serious is really done about it.

We have local bridge that was washed out in a flood 18 months ago. It's still not fixed. If the other bridge near gets washed out, the county hospital is inaccessible and on a island. That's the kind of problems that low taxes create. At least the theory of trickle-down economics is going away.

And if it was just about money, you could have logical debates down here. But it's also about repealing gay marriage, Roe vs Wade, policing tactics, health care, the 'attack on christianity' and other social issues that are debated by people who either don't understand complex issues or it doesn't affect them.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by griz » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:20 pm

Those poor Sanders supporters who were betrayed when he endorsed Hillary. Many are going to jump to Trump to avoid HC at all cost. How anyone can claim that Clinton is a better choice than Trump is beyond me. Must be brainwashed.
Isn't Dinesh a criminal himself?
Yes he is but if you look into you find that A) He produces anti-establishment media that puts him in their crosshairs, and B) Nobody in history has ever been charged for what he was charged for in his position. Giving a little too much money ($10K when I think the limit was $2K?) to a support a friend in politics.
Do you honestly think trump is an unknown quantity? You don't think we know what his values are? You think we don't know what he's all about?
No we don't know what the Donald will do in the realm of politics.
I'm not a fan of Hillary - but if you want to compare 'criminal' records.

trump's been sued 1300 times. Just the kind of guy you want running a powerful country.
(the latest case? He stiffed a painted $35,000 of a $200,000 project - he lost.)
One of the richest people in the world has been sued many times. Go figure. You compare *this* to the crimes of Hillary?
As for Clinton, she has a lot of baggage, but as far as I know, she hasn't been convicted of anything.
She's an establishment representative ... she is literally getting away with murder. Anyone else would have been arrested by now.

I don't know what the Trump will be like once he's POTUS (I believe he will be) but Hillary would bring war.
trump is a clown and nothing more. He has no business being in the white house - and even he knows it.
He may be a clown, but he's not a criminal and why don't you point out that Hillary has no business being in the white house?
If there was an alternative party, as you and probably countless millions would love to see, can you think of a recognizable name to lead it?
No rush, take your time, it's a killer question.
I'm going to give it some thought and see if I can think of anyone.
Oh ya, they have to be alive....
Yeah, Ron Paul and the Libertarian party.
Globalization means having to do more with less for the average schmuck like me.
I agree. It also means reduced liberty and diversity.
However, I deeply object to those who think Donald is going to fix it.
He doesn't have to fix it. He only has to set the stage for the kind of anti-establishment change that is so needed for humanity. Do you honestly think Hillary could fix anything?
Let's review a bit. He is going to bomb the shit out of ISIS. Cue the applause from the hick dumbasses.
How do you propose ISIS be dealt with?
He is going to make America safe again. The crime in America is at a record low. Cue the applause from the hicks.
I don't like the idea of removing liberty in the name of security in general. But I think he's referring to the open borders, globalization and the muslim take-overs that are happening around the world. The acts of terror.
He is going to make you rich or at least able to afford your lost toys. Cue...
When did he ever say THAT?
He is going to build a great wall
Illegal immigration should be stopped. Don't you agree?
He is going to deport 11 million people
Who can apply to come right back again through legal avenues and proper screening. You disagree and think the illegals should get a free pass? The many people who have legally immigrated to America are wondering why these floods of illegals are permitted when they had to go through the full screening process themselves.
For anyone on this board who supports him for any other reason than wanting to bring on the revolution faster, do us a favour and remove yourself from the genetic pool. As you can see by Trump's support there are enough dumb asses in the world without you taking up space.
Typical condescending crap.
I would have preferred Biden or...
I'm no fan of Biden : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrcgNf1ze9M
If you're expecting a quick fix, then it isn't going to happen. I've been down here 25 years and there's been no progress, only a regression as the dinosaurs flail about in their death throes.
Corn, don't get me started on Dinosaurs. They never existed : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KXzgeq1BuA

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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:41 pm

Ok Griz,

I get it - you hate Hillary and that's fine. You have your reasons and they're (mostly) valid.
Will she change things? no
Will she start a war? yeah, likely
Will she enrich herself and her husband? Yep
Will she cause chaos and bring down the economy? Nope - too many rich friends for that happen.
Will she be a placeholder for the next president? yes

You think trump will start some kind of revolution in DC and put the wheels of change in motion?
I don't see how a guy with no political experience, a win at all cost attitude, and no apparent empathy is going to make things better. He could very likely cause enough instability to crash a market or two. And we're almost recovered from the last time that happened.

Ron Paul? Sure - he was was the first political campaign I contributed to. We all saw how that ended - he got 'Bernied' before that became a thing.

I don't care for either Clinton. I think they're both self-centered assholes who will say or do anything to get elected. BUT - in this one election, the choice as I see it is 4 years of business as usual, with the small possibility of some of Sander's platform getting enacted - OR - total chaos that will affect the lives of many of the people who can least afford it.

trump bring nothing to the table. He's a shitty businessman who licenses his name and brags when something goes well. When it goes down the tubes, he instantly disowns it and claims to have nothing to do with it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ls/474726/

I don't expect you to support Clinton in any way - I don't - but you have to recognize the huge gap between the two candidates. Although they both tell people exactly what they want to hear, one will make sure that the country survives, the other will likely treat the country like one of his casinos. And that's something I don't want to gamble on.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Aaronp18 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:55 pm

I'm not going to get much into all of this but I find this interesting:
griz wrote: How do you propose ISIS be dealt with?
I'm curious as to how you feel they need to be dealt with? Bombing the shit out of them?

You think Hillary will bring war but this wouldn't?

Not to mention further acts of terror throughout the world because of the resulting collateral damage of bombing the shit out of ISIS.

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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:06 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:I'm not going to get much into all of this but I find this interesting:
griz wrote: How do you propose ISIS be dealt with?
I'm curious as to how you feel they need to be dealt with? Bombing the shit out of them?

You think Hillary will bring war but this wouldn't?

Not to mention further acts of terror throughout the world because of the resulting collateral damage of bombing the shit out of ISIS.
The US is already bombing the shit out of ISIS and making some headway. From what I've read, IS seem to be on the defensive now and despite 'claiming' terrorist attacks in the west, they are becoming less effective.

It's a supremely complex problem that needs more than one proposal (eg: Bomb the shit out of them). Obama seems to be doing what he can to appeal to the moderate Muslim population. I can't see trump continuing that approach.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Aaronp18 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:20 pm

Cornuck wrote: It's a supremely complex problem that needs more than one proposal (eg: Bomb the shit out of them). Obama seems to be doing what he can to appeal to the moderate Muslim population. I can't see trump continuing that approach.
It's definitely complex, and I'm not even going to pretend that I know enough about it.

Definitely can't see Trump being any portion of considerate of the Muslim population that condemns ISIS. Which can and likely will lead to different secs of extremist groups popping up even if ISIS can be relegated to ineffective.

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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Topper » Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:47 pm

Great tragic comedy. Criminally insane, the outcome will make the two predecessors look brilliant.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: US Erection 12

Post by micky107 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:00 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:
Cornuck wrote: It's a supremely complex problem that needs more than one proposal (eg: Bomb the shit out of them). Obama seems to be doing what he can to appeal to the moderate Muslim population. I can't see trump continuing that approach.
It's definitely complex, and I'm not even going to pretend that I know enough about it.

Definitely can't see Trump being any portion of considerate of the Muslim population that condemns ISIS. Which can and likely will lead to different secs of extremist groups popping up even if ISIS can be relegated to ineffective.
Your right about that. There have been others before ISIS and there will be others after.
It is worse now because of the internet and all the marvels of modern communication but it has been around a long time and will never go away as long as Israel is where it is.
You can't bomb it away but in reality, you can't make peace with it either.
The best that can be hoped for is to curb it through intelligence, security and monitoring.
The more countries on board, the better.
If there are any countries that are found to be guilty of financial support or arms passing through their borders to groups like ISIS, a world wide public denouncement might help a little.
I don't envy your choices.
Trump speaks way too dramatically; for example, during his final speech, out of no where, he very adamantly spoke of a stronger bond with Israel. Well even if that is the case, you don't say it that boldly on worldwide coverage! That was a mistake, it incites. That's dangerous.
Hillary has not just a bad temper, but a quick one. That will be preyed on for sure and that is dangerous.
I can't see either one of them not getting heavier into world affairs and that might not be what's needed for a while...
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:09 pm

micky107 wrote: You can't bomb it away but in reality, you can't make peace with it either.
The best that can be hoped for is to curb it through intelligence, security and monitoring.
... and appealing to moderate muslims who don't want anything to do with latest terror group of the month. This where a country like Canada shines. Showing the world how the prime minister greets refugees at the airport while the southern neighbour talks about blocking all members of a religion from entering.

The west needs to let the middle east know that we care more about that region rather than just its oil and other resources. Compromises like the Iran nuclear deal help this goal - and yet is something that republicans as whole reject soundly.
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Re: US Erection 12

Post by micky107 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:51 pm

Cornuck wrote:
micky107 wrote: You can't bomb it away but in reality, you can't make peace with it either.
The best that can be hoped for is to curb it through intelligence, security and monitoring.
... and appealing to moderate muslims who don't want anything to do with latest terror group of the month. This where a country like Canada shines. Showing the world how the prime minister greets refugees at the airport while the southern neighbour talks about blocking all members of a religion from entering.

The west needs to let the middle east know that we care more about that region rather than just its oil and other resources. Compromises like the Iran nuclear deal help this goal - and yet is something that republicans as whole reject soundly.
Wonder if things might have been different if NO countries in the region had or had access to nuclear weapons?
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