US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Strangelove »

https://beckernews.com/hillary-clinton- ... ign-44164/

"Hillary Clinton Wasn’t Only Trump Rival to Pay Tech Firm That Spied On Him, Biden Also Hired It for 2020 Campaign"
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by rats19 »

Will the Durham report be enough?
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Strangelove wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 3:31 pm I wonder what countries are next after the Ukraine.

Per, do you speak Russian?
Sure, I took it for three years in high school, but it's a bit rusty. For our honey moon trip we took the Transsiberian railroad to Beijing and then backpacked in China for a month before going home via Hongkong and Thailand, and back then I could still use make myself understood and converse a bit with the train staff and Russian passengers.

I've also used it in Poland... I'd first address people in English, if that didn't work I'd switch to German, which many of the older Poles understand, and if that didn't work Russian was my last resort. Russian always worked, but the Poles would take two steps back and there's be a sotr of mistrust on their faces. They did not seem to have a very positive opinion regarding Russian speaking people.

At present I'd say that (apart from Swedish of course) the language I'm best at is English, closely followed by German, then Spanish (studied one semester at the University of Valencia, economics and business administration, in Spanish, so I'd say even my Spanish is half decent), then French, Finnish and finally Russian. The last three I can't really hold up a conversation in, more just get by as a tourist by asking simple questions and more or less understand the replies.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:01 pm
Cornuck wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:26 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:14 pm Looks like the Hilary Clinton campaign was spying on Donald Trump and the current Biden administration NSA Jake Sullivan was the man in charge of the operation. Recall Trump did claim 'they're spying on me'. I haven't delved into this just yet but it seems the CIA was in on it too and they are not supposed to operate domestically. This is all from the Durham report.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/02/14/sp ... ed-on-trum

Also some are suggesting the current Ukraine war frenzy is a wag the dog distraction strategy a la Bill Clinton in Yugoslavia during the Monica Lewinsky affair. Interesting times we live in...
Interesting twist - but I'm not sure why Putin would be putting troops at the Ukraine border to distract the media away from news that makes Clinton look bad. Or is the inference just that the media focusing on it?
He's not putting troops on the border Corn, that's been debunked. Even the Ukrainians are telling the British and the Americans to 'for God's sake stop stirring up this hysteria, there''s no imminent threat of war.'
There are somewhere between 130 and 140,000 Russian troops on the border. They are also conducting a joint military exercise in Belarus, which of course also borders on Ukraine and part of their Baltic fleet have left the Baltic, rounded Western Europe, gone through the Mediterranean and are now in the Black Sea, strengthening their military presence on Ukraine's southern border. And there i splenty of satellite photos, from different sources, showing this. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2022 ... on-ukraine

You need to stop listening to the RT propaganda. They are taking direct orders from Putin.
RT has now been shut down in Germany, since they are seen as a dangerous source of misinformation.

The Russian Duma has now also suggested that Russia should recognise the Donbass region as a separate country, which would then enable them to instruct the Russia controlled insurgents to ask Russia for assistance and then be invited into the region. It would still be a huge violation of international law, but so was the invasion and annexation of Crimea, which is still not recognised by anyone but Russia (and some of their cronies), but apart from economic sanctions noone has taken them to task for it.

I think the EU should quote the same historic reasons Russia used for why Crimea should be Russian to annex Kaliningrad and reunite them with the rest of the OstPreussen region, which is currently part of Poland.
Last edited by Per on Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Per wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 1:52 am
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 4:01 pm
Cornuck wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 2:26 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 1:14 pm Looks like the Hilary Clinton campaign was spying on Donald Trump and the current Biden administration NSA Jake Sullivan was the man in charge of the operation. Recall Trump did claim 'they're spying on me'. I haven't delved into this just yet but it seems the CIA was in on it too and they are not supposed to operate domestically. This is all from the Durham report.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/02/14/sp ... ed-on-trum

Also some are suggesting the current Ukraine war frenzy is a wag the dog distraction strategy a la Bill Clinton in Yugoslavia during the Monica Lewinsky affair. Interesting times we live in...
Interesting twist - but I'm not sure why Putin would be putting troops at the Ukraine border to distract the media away from news that makes Clinton look bad. Or is the inference just that the media focusing on it?
He's not putting troops on the border Corn, that's been debunked. Even the Ukrainians are telling the British and the Americans to 'for God's sake stop stirring up this hysteria, there''s no imminent threat of war.'
There are somewhere between 130 and 140,000 Russian troops on the border. They are also conducting a joint military exercise in Belarus, which of course also borders on Ukraine and part of their Baltic fleet have left the Baltic, rounded Western Europe, gone through the Mediterranean and are now in the Black Sea, strengthening their military presence on Ukraine's southern border. And there i splenty of satellite photos, from different sources, showing this. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2022 ... on-ukraine

You need to stop listening to the RT propaganda. They are taking direct orders from Putin.
RT has now been shut down in Germany, since they are seen as a dangerous source of misinformation.

The Russian Duma has now also suggested that Russia should recognise the Donbass region as a separate country, which would then enable them to instruct the Russia controlled insurgents to ask Russia for assistance and then be invited into the region. It would still be a huge violation of international law, but so was the invasion and annexation of Crimea, which is still not recognised by anyone but Russia and some of their cronies, but despite the economic sanctions noone has taken them to task for it.

I think the EU should quote the same historic reasons Russia used for why Crimea should be Russian to annex Kaliningrad and reunite them with the rest of the OstPreussen region, which is currently part of Poland.
You're a dangerous source of misinformation yourself. You posted those satellite photos before remember? Those are cropped pictures of Russian troops at a Russian military base. That's not proof Per, gtfoh and stop posting debunked state department propaganda. And I'd love to see the EU invade Kaliningrad without an army, that'd be a neat trick. Russia would wind up annexing Europe. That would go very badly for you I'm afraid but it's about to get bad for you anyway if the US doesn't agree to provide the binding written security guarantees that Russia is asking them for I'm afraid so enjoy the escalation. Hypersonic weapons are about to be pointed at your cities.

But not to worry. Even without a war in Ukraine, which I have consistently said ain't happening, I think you're going to end up getting your sanctions anyway. There's nothing stopping the US from just going ahead and applying the sanctions they want to apply anyway and forcing Germany to cancel Nord Stream 2 and the allies to go along with the sanctions. Good luck with that.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:31 am You posted those satellite photos before remember? Those are cropped pictures of Russian troops at a Russian military base. That's not proof Per, gtfoh and stopped posting debunked state department propaganda.
Yeah, the troops are (mostly) stationed at military bases near the Ukraine border, but they have moved thousands and thousands of troops from other parts of Russia to these military bases that are now swamped with troops. Far more than they normally are.

And sure, Russia is saying, "Hey, we can move troops freely within our own territory!", which is of course true. But when you are piling more and more troops near the border of a country that you have already invaded part of (Crimea) and have fomented insurgencies in (Donbass) and is directing cyber attacks at (some major banks plus the defence department on Monday this week), people get worried.

And of course that is the whole point.

Putin is surrounding the Ukraine with troops (buildup on the Ruusian/Ukraine border, war games in Belarus, moving more ships and troops into the Black Sea) and then starting to make demands.

It's the typical "Nice little restaurant you have here. Would be a shame if it should go up in flames. Now, I have a proposal..." approach.

And all the info on Russian troop movements is not from the US state dept. It's multiple sources.

Putin has to accept that all nations have a right to sovereignty, which includes the right to their own foreign policy and choice of entering or not entering various international organisations. And also that invasions and annexation of other countries' territory is no longer accepted under international law.

It's sad that the UN never has been able to become a true guarantor of international peace in the way it was originally intended. The veto right of the permanent members of the Security Council makes if effectively neutered.

I'm not a great fan of Nato, but with Putin becoming increasingly authoritarian, dismantling democracy within Russia and threatening its neighbours on a regular basis, it is becoming the closest thing we have to a world police. I totally understand why Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland joined as fast as they could, because otherwise they'd be in the same predicament that the Ukraine is now.

Finland and Sweden remain outside of Nato, and neither country intends to join in the forseeable future, but we vehemently oppose the idea that someone else should have the right to dictate whether or not we can join.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Also, if there's no troop buildup on the Ukrainian border, why do the Russians say they are now withdrawing some of these supposedly non-existent troops? :hmmm:
Russia's Defense Ministry said on Tuesday that some of the soldiers taking part in the military drills close to the Ukrainian border were returning to their bases after completing their exercises. The Kremlin also confirmed the development but stressed it will continue to conduct drills on Russia's territory as it sees fit.
https://youtu.be/CtvLqWhi6W4
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Per wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 3:15 am
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:31 am You posted those satellite photos before remember? Those are cropped pictures of Russian troops at a Russian military base. That's not proof Per, gtfoh and stopped posting debunked state department propaganda.
Yeah, the troops are (mostly) stationed at military bases near the Ukraine border, but they have moved thousands and thousands of troops from other parts of Russia to these military bases that are now swamped with troops. Far more than they normally are.

And sure, Russia is saying, "Hey, we can move troops freely within our own territory!", which is of course true. But when you are piling more and more troops near the border of a country that you have already invaded part of (Crimea) and have fomented insurgencies in (Donbass) and is directing cyber attacks at (some major banks plus the defence department on Monday this week), people get worried.

And of course that is the whole point.

Putin is surrounding the Ukraine with troops (buildup on the Ruusian/Ukraine border, war games in Belarus, moving more ships and troops into the Black Sea) and then starting to make demands.

It's the typical "Nice little restaurant you have here. Would be a shame if it should go up in flames. Now, I have a proposal..." approach.

And all the info on Russian troop movements is not from the US state dept. It's multiple sources.

Putin has to accept that all nations have a right to sovereignty, which includes the right to their own foreign policy and choice of entering or not entering various international organisations. And also that invasions and annexation of other countries' territory is no longer accepted under international law.

It's sad that the UN never has been able to become a true guarantor of international peace in the way it was originally intended. The veto right of the permanent members of the Security Council makes if effectively neutered.

I'm not a great fan of Nato, but with Putin becoming increasingly authoritarian, dismantling democracy within Russia and threatening its neighbours on a regular basis, it is becoming the closest thing we have to a world police. I totally understand why Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland joined as fast as they could, because otherwise they'd be in the same predicament that the Ukraine is now.

Finland and Sweden remain outside of Nato, and neither country intends to join in the forseeable future, but we vehemently oppose the idea that someone else should have the right to dictate whether or not we can join.
Not going to happen Per. Ukraine will never join NATO and Ukraine understands this better than anyone else. They are in a tough situation with the US and it's Anglo allies arming them to the teeth and basically leaving them to their fate in the event of war, which the US and Britain are feverishly promoting. And I'm well aware of the recent Russian exercises. They were planned long ago and were apparently very successful. They took place all over Russia and included naval exercises in the Pacific and Atlantic regions as well. It does seem to me your definition of what constitutes 'on the Ukrainian border' must differ from mine, I do agree that last fall we did see a big buildup at the border when war seemed imminent, but I'm honestly not hearing from anywhere I trust that it's happening now. Of course, in the event of a Ukrainian invasion of Donvbass, the Russian army will move with lightning speed and deal with the Ukrainian forces. But again, what Russia wants is for Ukraine to implement fully the Minsk 2 agreements. Everyone I think is well aware of this. There is no desire for war on their part and I really think, and I do hope, that there will not be a war in Ukraine.

I do expect the US and it's clients to go ahead with their sanctions package anyway though, including forcing Germany to abandon the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from Siberia to Germany. The US really wants to see that thing killed. Implementing the sanctions package will mean the end of the flow of gas and other natural resources from Russia to Europe but the US will do it's best to fill that gap with their own much more expensive LNG. It looks like a situation where everyone loses. I think it was an American general who once said in the late forties after the war "NATO is designed to keep America in, Russia out, and Germany down." This is seemingly being reinforced today.

As for NATO, it has moved considerably more than 'one inch eastward' since the reunification of Germany but I'm afraid it's rambling days are over. The balance of power in Europe has shifted and everyone now must adjust to the new reality. I think and I hope that a new security arrangement for Europe can be negotiated with Russia that satisfies everyone but I expect a bumpy road along the way.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Re the satellite images Per posted a few months ago and again now, Here's an analysis of what they really show:

https://turcopolier.com/an-amateur-look ... ence-by-wa

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/01/a ... ssian-inva

*at the second link type 'cropped satellite images' into the search bar...
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:24 am Of course, in the event of a Ukrainian invasion of Donvbass, the Russian army will move with lightning speed and deal with the Ukrainian forces.
This phrasing shows how fully you are buiying into the Russian propaganda. The Ukraine cannot invade Donbass, as Donbass is already part of the Ukraine. What they can do is restore order.
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:24 am But again, what Russia wants is for Ukraine to implement fully the Minsk 2 agreements.
Right, but you mentioned earlier that Ukraine was dragging its feet on this, when in fact both sides are. Neither side has made any serious attempt to implement the agreement, which would mean Ukraine gets control over Donbass again, but that Donbass is granted some level of autonomy.

The Ukrainian army has not been given control over the border, foreign mercenaries and illegal arms are still in the region. Leaders of the region have expressed both that they are not bound by the agreement and that they would wish to become part of Russia.

Government officials have not been allowed in to be able to administrate the elections that are called for in the protocol.

The parliament of Ukraine did actually approve a law on "special status" for Donbas on 17 March, as specified by Minsk II, and later, in 2019, Ukraine's parliament voted to extend regulations giving limited self-rule to separatist-controlled eastern regions, a prerequisite for a deal to settle the five-year conflict there. But apparently these measures have not been considered enough by the rebels nor their Russian handlers.

I suppose that had it not been for the global outrage over the invasion of Crimea, Putin would already have annexed Donbass as well. Now he is trying to drag out the conflict while looking for an excuse to incorporate Donbass into Russia. He has been quoted as saying that Ukraine is not a real country, which tells you a lot about his respect for his neighbours.


The full text of the agreement is as follows:
  1. Immediate and full ceasefire in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine and its strict fulfilment as of 00:00 midnight EET on 15 February 2015.
  • Pull-out of all heavy weapons by both sides to equal distance with the aim of creation of a security zone on minimum 50 kilometres (31 mi) apart for artillery of 100mm calibre or more, and a security zone of 70 kilometres (43 mi) for multiple rocket launchers (MRLS) and 140 kilometres (87 mi) for MLRS Tornado-S, Uragan, Smerch, and Tochka U tactical missile systems:
    • for Ukrainian troops, from actual line of contact;
    • for armed formations of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine, from the contact line in accordance with the Minsk Memorandum as of 19 September 2014
    The pullout of the above-mentioned heavy weapons must start no later than the second day after the start of the ceasefire and finish within 14 days.
    This process will be assisted by OSCE with the support of the Trilateral Contact Group.
  • Effective monitoring and verification of ceasefire regime and pullout of heavy weapons by OSCE will be provided from the first day of pullout, using all necessary technical means such as satellites, drones, radio-location systems etc.
  • On the first day after the pullout a dialogue is to start on modalities of conducting local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts," and also about the future of these districts based on the above-mentioned law.
    Without delays, but no later than 30 days from the date of signing of this document, a resolution has to be approved by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, indicating the territory which falls under the special regime in accordance with the law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts," based in the line set up by the Minsk Memorandum as of 19 September 2014.
  • Provide pardon and amnesty by way of enacting a law that forbids persecution and punishment of persons in relation to events that took place in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine.
  • Provide release and exchange of all hostages and illegally held persons, based on the principle of "all for all". This process has to end – at the latest – on the fifth day after the pullout (of weapons).
  • Provide safe access, delivery, storage and distribution of humanitarian aid to the needy, based on an international mechanism.
  • Define the modalities of a full restoration of social and economic connections, including social transfers, such as payments of pensions and other payments (income and revenue, timely payment of communal bills, restoration of tax payments within the framework of Ukrainian legal field).
    With this aim, Ukraine will restore management over the segment of its banking system in the districts affected by the conflict, and possibly, an international mechanism will be established to ease such transactions.
  • Restore control of the state border to the Ukrainian government in the whole conflict zone, which has to start on the first day after the local election and end after the full political regulation (local elections in particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts based on the law of Ukraine and Constitutional reform) by the end of 2015, on the condition of fulfillment of Point 11 – in consultations and in agreement with representatives of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts within the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group.
  • Pullout of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, and also mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under OSCE supervision. Disarmament of all illegal groups.
  • Constitutional reform in Ukraine, with a new constitution to come into effect by the end of 2015, the key element of which is decentralisation (taking into account peculiarities of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, agreed with representatives of these districts), and also approval of permanent legislation on the special status of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in accordance with the measures spelt out in the attached footnote,[note 1] by the end of 2015.
  • Based on the Law of Ukraine "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts", questions related to local elections will be discussed and agreed upon with representatives of particular districts of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group. Elections will be held in accordance with relevant OSCE standards and monitored by OSCE/ODIHR.
  • Intensify the work of the Trilateral Contact Group including through the establishment of working groups on the implementation of relevant aspects of the Minsk agreements. They will reflect the composition of the Trilateral Contact Group.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Ukraine refuses to even talk to the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk breakaway republics. Pretty hard to 'drag your feet' when the other party refuses to even talk to you. And call it an invasion or a re entry, call it what you will, it's going to be an ugly affair if it ever does happen and they will be routed. But keep drinking the kool aid and waving those pom poms for the war, it's not your country.




*Per I enjoy discussing this situation with you but it occurs to me that this is the Donald Trump thread. It's my fault completely but we're off course here. If you want to continue I think we should take it over to the Dobby Putin thread ;)
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:31 am Ukraine refuses to even talk to the leaders of the Donetsk and Lugansk breakaway republics. Pretty hard to 'drag your feet' when the other party refuses to even talk to you. And call it an invasion or a re entry, call it what you will, it's going to be an ugly affair if it ever does happen and they will be routed. But keep drinking the kool aid and waving those pom poms for the war, it's not your country.




*Per I enjoy discussing this situation with you but it occurs to me that this is the Donald Trump thread. It's my fault completely but we're off course here. If you want to continue I think we should take it over to the Dobby Putin thread ;)
Trump, Putin - same difference. But I catch your drift. And I think we could it a rest and wait to see what happens.
And I certainly do not want war, but the war started when Putin invaded parts of Ukraine in 2014.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Cornuck »

Interesting take on the latest 'spy-gate' stuff.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1493 ... 92422.html
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Per »

So, apparently the accounting firm used by the Trump Organization is severing ties, washing their hands and stating that the financial statements for the last ten years of the Trump Organization are unreliable.

Probably wanting to distance themselves from responsibility for the numbers in the books due to the pending bank fraud and tax fraud cases involving the Trump Organisation.

https://youtu.be/KYKufn34l8I
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20

Post by Topper »

Cornuck wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:25 am Interesting take on the latest 'spy-gate' stuff.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1493 ... 92422.html
another interesting take

quotes from Durham's statement of facts behind his filing that Sussman is desperately trying to have removed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hillar ... ke-scandal
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