It's getting warm

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Cornuck
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:02 pm

Strangelove wrote: The larger point was that

... in the grand scheme of things...
Yes - the eons and epochs and ages and geological forces, etc. Yep, I get that.

But again, it just seems like you don't care about whatever effect man DOES have on the planet. Has CO2 been higher? Yep. Has it risen as quickly in the past? Likely? Are humans causing it rise faster than it should (on top of other natural causes)? Nah... how can man's ego alter the air? :D Let's just keep burning fossil fuels to prove a point! (maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I'm hearing from you). Don't worry about Topper's job, we'll still need to dig shit valuable resources out of the ground. ;)

You approach seems to be business as usual, carry on, not worry about - deflect and avoid dealing with what will be an issue in the future. Are you investing in South Beach right now? Or are you waiting for your own oceanfront property in the valley? You'll get it before I do. :(
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Strangelove » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:16 pm

Cornuck wrote:
Strangelove wrote: The larger point was that

... in the grand scheme of things...

the effect humans have-had/can-ever-have on global temperatures is insignificant.

The way I see it, the human need for self-righteousness is what is fueling the Climate Change Train.

(I'm referring to the "Let's Save the Planet" mentality of course)

I mean, let's face it, this has next-to-nothing to do with real science.

(these folks refuse to listen to the geologists, astronomers, etc)

But of course Climate Change devotees have convinced themselves they're Oh. So. Scientific.

Not unlike the way the Incans convinced themselves they were saving the planet with human sacrifice.

(they pointed to their higher math and the movement of celestial objects as evidence)

Now hey I'm all in favour of Freedom of Religion, I'm just saying...

It would be better for the mental health of these Climate Changers to self-identify as the cultists they are.

IMESHO
Yes - the eons and epochs and ages and geological forces, etc. Yep, I get that.

But again, it just seems like you don't care about whatever effect man DOES have on the planet. Has CO2 been higher? Yep. Has it risen as quickly in the past? Likely? Are humans causing it rise faster than it should (on top of other natural causes)? Nah... how can man's ego alter the air? :D Let's just keep burning fossil fuels to prove a point! (maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I'm hearing from you). Don't worry about Topper's job, we'll still need to dig shit valuable resources out of the ground. ;)

You approach seems to be business as usual, carry on, not worry about - deflect and avoid dealing with what will be an issue in the future. Are you investing in South Beach right now? Or are you waiting for your own oceanfront property in the valley? You'll get it before I do. :(
I'm just saying there is nothing we humans can do about global climate. (carbon tax OMG) :lol:

I've agreed with Topper that we are at the mercy of cosmic + geological forces.

I've pointed out that astronomers are predicting a cooling trend in the future (New Maunder Minimum?)

So yeah, why worry.
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:26 pm

Strangelove wrote:So yeah, why worry.
Well, you're in luck. With your hero down here wanting to get rid of regulations, we can go back to the good ol' days and treat the planet like the giant trash bin it was created to be. :D
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Strangelove » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:30 pm

Don't worry, you've still got yer filters on yer smokestacks and yer lower-emission vehicles.

But more importantly, as a nation, you're not falling for the long con! :D
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Cornuck » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:37 pm

Strangelove wrote:Don't worry, you've still got yer filters on yer smokestacks and yer lower-emission vehicles.

But more importantly, as a nation, you're not falling for the long con! :D
(not my nation)
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Topper » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:58 pm

Strangelove wrote:The way I see it, the human need for self-righteousness is what is fueling the Climate Change Train.
and the universe revolves around the Earth

and humans are the apex species
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Topper » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:23 pm

Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Uncle dans leg » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:17 am

Hahaha fantastic. Producing the batteries equates to 8 years of driving a gasser! LOL
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Aaronp18 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:10 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Hahaha fantastic. Producing the batteries equates to 8 years of driving a gasser! LOL
I'm actually curious as to how long they expect these batteries to last? I mean if they are good for 25 years its a net gain but I haven't had any vehicle of mine for anywhere near 8 years.

And what is the cost and environmental impact of disposing of these batteries when they are no longer useful?

Per, it would seem you're doing more damage than good hear! I'll stick to my truck and fixing up my 59 Bug!

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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Uncle dans leg » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:54 am

Aaronp18 wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Hahaha fantastic. Producing the batteries equates to 8 years of driving a gasser! LOL
I'm actually curious as to how long they expect these batteries to last? I mean if they are good for 25 years its a net gain but I haven't had any vehicle of mine for anywhere near 8 years.

And what is the cost and environmental impact of disposing of these batteries when they are no longer useful?

Per, it would seem you're doing more damage than good hear! I'll stick to my truck and fixing up my 59 Bug!
Right now they likely outlive your 8 year vehicle life cycle if perfect conditions are met...usually only using it 30km per day...their life is slowly decreased by charge cycles.

In 10 years or so there will be advances I would imagine and then we could see them being more practical.
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Per » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:59 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Hahaha fantastic. Producing the batteries equates to 8 years of driving a gasser! LOL
Fortunately, that is a load of bunk. Not everything from Sweden is of top notch quality, and that study definitely wasn't.

I refer you to this article in Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hy ... fake-news/

Furthermore, the author of the PM article actually accepts the notion that the Tesla battery released 17.5 tonnes of CO2 during production, a figure based on the assumption that roughly 50% of electricity is generated from fossil fuels, but Elon Musk maintains that the Tesla factories only use energy from renewable sources, so even that assumption is wrong. :drink:
Last edited by Per on Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by ukcanuck » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:38 am

Perhaps it's not gas v electric or fossil fuels over renewable energy.

Perhaps it's planned obsolescence, consumer driven economics and liberal democracy that is the problem.

Why doesn't a car last longer than time it takes to pay for it ?

Why do people continue to vote for Trumps and Mays and Clarks when they clearly are only interested in lining
their own pockets for as long as they can?

Best question why do otherwise intelligent people buy the bullshit?

If trump or his ilk showed up your door offering to sell you a bridge cheap you would chase him off. But put him national TV and you run to vote for him ...

Mystery of the age and when the cockroaches evolve and dig up our ruins they will be just as mystified.

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Re: It's getting warm

Post by damonberryman » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:19 am

I will happily admit to taking the long view on climate change. As Topper points out, the Earth will recover from whatever we throw at it. The only real question is human survival and that is egocentric to the max. Maybe we re not needed at all. The planet did fine for billions of years without us. I am dead certain it will again.

There is a wonderful shot from orbit that shows the dark side of Earth. The photo is full of dark areas and areas intensely lit up by light. Light usually indicates human presence as does heat indicate living things among others. It may turn out we are simply a skin infection on the planet that will be corrected over geological (or shorter) time scales. The planet would return to health over time and we would join the past which is under our feet. I take some comfort (Nope. Let me be honest. A lot of comfort) from that thought.

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Re: It's getting warm

Post by Uncle dans leg » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:35 am

Per wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:
Hahaha fantastic. Producing the batteries equates to 8 years of driving a gasser! LOL
Fortunately, that is a load of bunk. Not everything from Sweden is of top notch quality, and that study definitely wasn't.

I refer you to this article in Popular Mechanics:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hy ... fake-news/

Furthermore, the author of the PM article actually accepts the notion that the Tesla battery released 17.5 tonnes of CO2 during production, a figure based on the assumption that roughly 50% of electricity is generated from fossil fuels, but Elon Musk maintains that the Tesla factories only use energy from renewable sources, so even that assumption is wrong. :drink:
I am positive that if EVs go on to replace combustion powered vehicles that the mass production of batteries including the mining of minerals will end up being the next environmental disaster much like the extraction of oil is now.
Maybe Elon Musk promises to stay clean but there will be chinese knock offs (hello Volvo!) that don't and they'll outsell the green manufacturers simply because they're half the price.
Per wrote:Not everything from Sweden is of top notch quality
I had 3 volvos over the past while and each one was infinitely shittier than the one before! Junk!
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Re: It's getting warm

Post by herb » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:22 am

Cornuck wrote:
Strangelove wrote: The larger point was that

... in the grand scheme of things...
Yes - the eons and epochs and ages and geological forces, etc. Yep, I get that.

But again, it just seems like you don't care about whatever effect man DOES have on the planet. Has CO2 been higher? Yep. Has it risen as quickly in the past? Likely? Are humans causing it rise faster than it should (on top of other natural causes)? Nah... how can man's ego alter the air? :D Let's just keep burning fossil fuels to prove a point! (maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I'm hearing from you). Don't worry about Topper's job, we'll still need to dig shit valuable resources out of the ground. ;)

You approach seems to be business as usual, carry on, not worry about - deflect and avoid dealing with what will be an issue in the future. Are you investing in South Beach right now? Or are you waiting for your own oceanfront property in the valley? You'll get it before I do. :(
You can want to pollute less, produce less waste, conserve wildlife, save the ozone layer, want clean water and crave cleaner air while also thinking a carbon tax and CO2 reduction targets are horseshit. The environmental industry has created this seemingly unbreakable bond between global warming and pollution. I can want to pollute less, while not really care about CO2.

I mean look at the madness the City of Vancouver is embarking upon. They want to eliminate the use of clean, cheap, plentiful natural gas. It's ridiculous. Common sense is struggling to prevail in the face of this incredibly robust environmental lobby.

Plus, the evidence is clear that ocean levels and global average temperatures have varied wildly over the course of even human history all without supposed human causes. Why worry so much about something that we may have no control over? Is it even bad for Canada if the average temperature is two or three degrees warmer?

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