Comics Anyone?

The primary goal of this site is to provide mature, meaningful discussion about the Vancouver Canucks. However, we all need a break some time so this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest! This forum is named after poster Creeper, who passed away in July of 2011 and was a long time member of the Canucks message board community.

Moderator: Referees

Comics Anyone?

Postby Meds » Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:11 pm

Not sure if there are any comic book junkies around here, but with the re-numbering and rebooting of all of DC's characters and their subsequent comics I figured I'd start a thread.

I never really collected comics at all, just bought a few here and the as a kid and then picked up some of the better graphic novels that were released a year or so after a long, multi-issue, story was run (for example, the Batman series of Knightfall and Knights End). For the most part I figured, what's the point? Any comics worth anything are older than time, in fact in the last 30 years the only comic really worth picking up for being a first edition was when Wolverine finally got his own series. So what was the point, it was always about the stories anyways.....

The New-52 that DC is releasing here actually looks pretty good. I figure I'll pick up a good chunk of the # 1's here over the next few months and then never read them, just leave them in their protective sleeves and store them away. The new JLA was the first to come out (debuted last Wednesday) and is allegedly on its 3rd printing already. Guy here at the local store said it's the biggest selling comic in recent history.

As for the reboot itself, there have been a pile of mixed opinions on the subject. I for one am a big fan of it, a clean slate for the writers and a chance for younger readers to jump in at the beginning. The way they went about making it happen was a pretty well written, the Flashpoint series that just wrapped up was a pretty good read.....if not somewhat scattered at times between the various series and issues. I read the new JLA (digital edition of course cuz I don't wanna wreck a first edition) and I'm impressed with the changes they've made to the look of the characters as well as with what they've done with the "universe" in general. I especially like how none of the heroes know each other, none of them trust each other, and the world doesn't trust them either.....therefore the police don't really try to pick their shots, just blanket the area and if they nail the Batman while taking down whatever villain he's thumping, well then it's "two birds with one stone", as it were......

I'm pretty excited to see where they go with all of this.

Yeah I'm a geek, but it's kinda fun to be a big kid again.....

Note to mods: Sorry if there's already a thread for comics, I didn't see it in the first 5 pages.
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby BCExpat » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:09 am

I've got a shit load of comic books I bought when I was a kid (Remeber i'm 58 years old as of Sept 15). Some of them date back to the '50s. Someday, I'll have them appraised. I'm sure I have some that are worth a few bucks - but, who cares. I'll still keep them. Maybe my kids will cash in on them.
Feaster Famine
User avatar
BCExpat
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:18 pm

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby ukcanuck » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:09 am

Meds wrote:Not sure if there are any comic book junkies around here, but with the re-numbering and rebooting of all of DC's characters and their subsequent comics I figured I'd start a thread.
.

I'm pretty excited to see where they go with all of this.

Yeah I'm a geek, but it's kinda fun to be a big kid again.....

Note to mods: Sorry if there's already a thread for comics, I didn't see it in the first 5 pages.


I used to love comics as a kid, as an adult I dont get the same level of satisfaction from them but still think the graphic novel is a worthwhile form of literature. Maus 1 and Maus 2 are great examples of the art form.
however, I do not see how anyone can re-boot a story its not right or possible to say that the origin of a character or series or title did not exist. I don't mind so much the way marvel has done it by having alternate universes and having the reader jump to a different reality but the past is the past and un-alterable.

Ive always thought that DC was a step behind marvel and Dark horse (independents)
anyway. I think their time was during the Golden Age when absolutes were popular, Good guys wear white and bad guys wear black. Superman being invincible and unalterably good, the Joker irredeemably bad. But since the end of WW2 and the Atomic age they have been out of step, suddenly the good guys unleashed an evil weapon on innocent bad guys...nothing is certain anymore...marvel's Hulk and Spiderman, and Xmen all were better suited for the muddled world we lived in.

Now it seems that DC needs to join the 21st century in order to stream line their stories to maximise profit in video and film, DVD, games and magazines...
well if they must I hope that they up date a few things,
-Batman is way better without Robin, I think he makea a great character as a miserable lonely rich man along the lines of Iron Man.
-update superman's cape :oops: blue tights and red panties....a one, a two,...a one a two three weee!
JLA could parallel the law enforcement agencies in real life a lot closer, with all of their warts and blemishes. hi-light some of the idiocy and lunacy that the CIA, FBI, etc have done since WW2 and make the JLA the exact same with all the hypocrisy there intact. Show the reader how defending freedom by taking people's freedom works...


Anyway thanks for starting this thread i will enjoy seeing some responses
UK
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby Arachnid » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:26 am

OK, Sat morning, coffee in hand, time to type...

Meds, the DC restart is to get people in comics that might be enjoying all the movies versions of them.
I have been reading and collecting comics since the 70's and was great to start with the early numbers.
Yeah it's a marketing ploy but also a great chance to enjoy it from the beginning again.
My only advice is buyer beware. Don't buy for speculation that they will be worth thousands one day. They won't. Enjoy them for the stories. And that's just it, the art is one thing, in a graphics medium, but not everything. The writing is everything. And the reboot has some great writers. One thing I never had was internet reviews like Rotten Tomatoes to help me buy comics (only publications that took time to get) so now you can read sites like IGN.com, major newspaper sites or Rolling Stone and see what's good or not. If you have a favourite character that's great but a great writer can remake a character into something you really like so don't be afraid to give something new (or old) a chance. Alan Moore, did this to the 70's character SwampThing. Not the deepest of DC's universe but his stint on the comic is credited with a reboot of the DC Universe in the 80's. Brilliant writing.
I had always had the image of bug boobed Adrienne Barbeau with ol' Swampy but Moore completely floored that (albeit on drugs). I will pick up the new Swampthing #1 as I heard good things about it. Also, another writer that has had an amazing consistent run and refreshes everything he touches is Grant Morrison. His first stint on Animal Man is a classic and now the Canadian writer Jeff Lemire (whose graphic novel I highly recommended in the Eye Reedz books thread) is charged with Animal Mans rebirth, looking forward to it....Grant Morison is redoing Superman in Action Comics and I picked it up (will read it tomorrow) and I am not nor never was a Supes fan but Morrison is one talented writer and he just wrote Batman and Robin and made it work incredibly...so read reviews and pick them up and enjoy, if you like them keep reading, the writers change, sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse...

Couldn't disagree more with UK. DC far out stripped Marvel in it's comics since the 80's. Although I am (obviously) a huge Spiderman fan, I collected the X-Men in the early 80's with the introduction of Wolverine and Alpha Flight (Marvel's Canadian superhero team)..as an aside John Byrne was a Canadian writer and artist that did the X-Men proud and rebooted Superman with his Smallville mini-series.
DC had The Dark Knight, Frank Millers refresh take on Batman, they also started adult mainstream comics (yes Darkhorse was there first) with Neil Gaiman's Sandman, still a shiny beacon to the graphics medium and started the adult Vertigo line for DC...next was Alan Moore's deconstruction of the superhero universe with Watchmen. As I mentioned before. DC has some amazing writers. As does Marvel. As do the independents like Darkhorse. Read reviews and pick up something that peak your interest...

I'll post some of my favourite past and present writers later...gotta wedding to write for now...
There is no such thing as climate change...there is no such thing as climate change...there is such thing as climate change...
Arachnid
CC Legend
 
Posts: 5200
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Old Berlin

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby ukcanuck » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:07 am

Arachnid wrote:OK, Sat morning, coffee in hand, time to type...

Meds, the DC restart is to get people in comics that might be enjoying all the movies versions of them.
I have been reading and collecting comics since the 70's and was great to start with the early numbers.
Yeah it's a marketing ploy but also a great chance to enjoy it from the beginning again.


Couldn't disagree more with UK. DC far out stripped Marvel in it's comics since the 80's. Although I am (obviously) a huge Spiderman fan, I collected the X-Men in the early 80's with the introduction of Wolverine and Alpha Flight (Marvel's Canadian superhero team)..as an aside John Byrne was a Canadian writer and artist that did the X-Men proud and rebooted Superman with his Smallville mini-series.
DC had The Dark Knight, Frank Millers refresh take on Batman, they also started adult mainstream comics (yes Darkhorse was there first) with Neil Gaiman's Sandman, still a shiny beacon to the graphics medium and started the adult Vertigo line for DC...next was Alan Moore's deconstruction of the superhero universe with Watchmen. As I mentioned before. DC has some amazing writers. As does Marvel. As do the independents like Darkhorse. Read reviews and pick up something that peak your interest...

I'll post some of my favourite past and present writers later...gotta wedding to write for now...


it seems to me that DC vs Marvel is a Ford vs Chevy argument and would largely depend on ones preference. I think by the time Frank Miller had taken on the Dark Knight series I had pretty much stopped buying and following comics so I cant put forth an opinion on that series other than to say that I think that Frank Miller had already done the same thing with both Wolverine and The Punisher, which are both Marvel titles, if I recall correctly.
Another point that hasn't been made is that in the late 80s and early 90s the price and quality of comic books went through the roof putting them beyond what a kid collecting pop bottles could afford and really I think its at that point that comic books lost their way. fast forward to today and it seems that the only customers left are really those of us who remember the old days when a book was less than a dollar and available at the local corner store.
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby Meds » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:52 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Meds wrote:Not sure if there are any comic book junkies around here, but with the re-numbering and rebooting of all of DC's characters and their subsequent comics I figured I'd start a thread.
.

I'm pretty excited to see where they go with all of this.

Yeah I'm a geek, but it's kinda fun to be a big kid again.....

Note to mods: Sorry if there's already a thread for comics, I didn't see it in the first 5 pages.


Now it seems that DC needs to join the 21st century in order to stream line their stories to maximise profit in video and film, DVD, games and magazines...
well if they must I hope that they up date a few things,
-Batman is way better without Robin, I think he makea a great character as a miserable lonely rich man along the lines of Iron Man.
-update superman's cape :oops: blue tights and red panties....a one, a two,...a one a two three weee!
JLA could parallel the law enforcement agencies in real life a lot closer, with all of their warts and blemishes. hi-light some of the idiocy and lunacy that the CIA, FBI, etc have done since WW2 and make the JLA the exact same with all the hypocrisy there intact. Show the reader how defending freedom by taking people's freedom works...
UK


I don't think DC is trying to rejoin anything, if they are then Marvel is too as they are also talking "reboot" now that DC has anhialtated them on the sales charts since their reboot.

Batman is better without Robin? Sometimes. I don't really care for the Batman and Robin line of stories, but I do like where DC went with it in latter years, making Robin his own person and venturing out on his own more, at that point his appearances and interactions with the Dark Knight became more cameo-esque. Although more recently with the introduction of Damian Wayne (Bruce's illegitimate son), they had the full blown side-kick persona back again.....though with a weird twist that made it interesting. I do hope you realize that Iron Man's alter-ego of Tony Stark is/was loosely based on the that of Bruce Wayne and the success of the rich corporate mogul turned costumed hero. Batman came along well before Iron Man. ;)

You'll be happy to know that Superman's cape has been updated (slightly), and his red tighties are gone (so are the Bat's blue ones incidentally), Supe's big blue self is different too, now more metallic and armor-ish looking with a much more distinct military cut to it.

As for the JLA, well they don't even know or trust each other yet, so that's pretty cool. DC has also gone with a Justice League International that is put together by the UN and already shows the chinks and flaws that one would come to associate with any government owned and operated agency.
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby Meds » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:27 pm

Arachnid wrote:OK, Sat morning, coffee in hand, time to type...

Meds, the DC restart is to get people in comics that might be enjoying all the movies versions of them.
I have been reading and collecting comics since the 70's and was great to start with the early numbers.
Yeah it's a marketing ploy but also a great chance to enjoy it from the beginning again.
My only advice is buyer beware. Don't buy for speculation that they will be worth thousands one day. They won't. Enjoy them for the stories. And that's just it, the art is one thing, in a graphics medium, but not everything. The writing is everything.

Couldn't disagree more with UK. DC far out stripped Marvel in it's comics since the 80's. Although I am (obviously) a huge Spiderman fan, I collected the X-Men in the early 80's with the introduction of Wolverine and Alpha Flight (Marvel's Canadian superhero team)..as an aside John Byrne was a Canadian writer and artist that did the X-Men proud and rebooted Superman with his Smallville mini-series.
DC had The Dark Knight, Frank Millers refresh take on Batman, they also started adult mainstream comics (yes Darkhorse was there first) with Neil Gaiman's Sandman, still a shiny beacon to the graphics medium and started the adult Vertigo line for DC...next was Alan Moore's deconstruction of the superhero universe with Watchmen. As I mentioned before. DC has some amazing writers. As does Marvel. As do the independents like Darkhorse. Read reviews and pick up something that peak your interest...

I'll post some of my favourite past and present writers later...gotta wedding to write for now...


First off, agree with you on the thinking about them being worth thousands one day, if they ever get into that kind of collectors club it won't be until my grand-kids are the ones owning them (should they last that long).

Secondly, I disagree with you on the writing being everything. To back this up I'll point to one of your afore-mentioned Authors, Frank Miller. Tremendous writer, lousy artist (IMHO). I liked what I read of the Dark Knight Returns, but I hated his art-work so much I just couldn't spend the time reading. He should colaborate with the likes of Jim Lee and not do all this solo stuff. My absolute favorite story run is Batman: Hush and the subsequent spin-offs that combined Jeph Loeb's writing with Jim Lee's art. Writing is everything in a novel, but a graphic novel needs to combine both elements of story and art to be truly effective. I will stipulate and say that a comic with amazing art but shitty writing isn't worth the time of day, you may as well toss the narrative and dialogue boxes in the bin and just sell it as a book of said artist's work featuring *insert hero name*.

As for DC out-stripping Marvel, I'm not sure. I don't know enough about comics yet to agree or disagree when it comes to the various characters, publishing names, etc. I do think that DC's main characters are better stand-alone than Marvel's. Primarily their big 4. Yeah, yeah, Superman, Batman, and Wonderwoman are the big 3, but since Blackest Night and Brightest Day, there is no selling Green Lantern short. There is so much lore and myth that they have built up around the various lanterns and spectrums, and the pivotal roles that Hal Jordan has played in some of DC's big story arcs, they have a Big 4 now IMO. While Parker/Spidey, Logan/Wolverine, are great stand alone creations, the others like Stark/Iron Man, Thor, Banner/Hulk, Surfer, Cap, Daredevil, etc. really drop off to a degree. Marvel's characters have, as UK pointed out, always done a very good job portraying the humanity of the individual in question, but I have often found them to lack that superhero sense of morality (for lack of better expression). They rarely shone like that beacon of hope in the good vs evil battle the way some of DC's characters did with their incorruptible morality and ethics. The Bat always kept DC somewhat grounded in the humanity department (Adam West's portrayal excepted) and some of their lesser characters like Green Arrow, Hawk and Dove, and Guy Gardner often walked the ethical line so-to-speak by catering more to a Machiavellian philosophy in their way going about getting the job done. It is a tough call, but I think that the farmboy sense of right and wrong that DC wrote into their flagship character is what separates DC from Marvel. It is something they have maintained, and I hope they continue it into the reboot, throughout their multiple eras. They went the right way when they had Wonder Woman kill Max Lord as that was the only recourse left to her and it was the only solution that would ensure world wide safety, I was like, Finally they show some rational thought here. However, it would have sucked if Superman and Batman had condoned it. They took a major character and wrote her into the gray area all alone, but while doing so managed to keep the lines of black and white unbroken and outlined what set their heros apart. I've rambled here, and gotten off the premise of this paragraph, so I'll come back by saying that I think Marvel does do better Hero teams than DC. The Avengers and X-Men are better stories for the most part than the JLA or the Titans, and Marvel would be the runaway in that department if they hadn't written Fantastic 4 and made that their early flagship, that quartet just brings Marvel crashing back to earth somehow.

Personally I think DC just does it better. To each their own.
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby Benjo » Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:18 am

I'm looking forward to reading the Watchmen when my wife's sister is done reading it for her English class.

My dad has about 200-300 comics from the 60's and 70's including Wolverine #1 all in plastic sleeves.
Benjo
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 685
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:39 pm

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby Arachnid » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:07 pm

Meds wrote:
Arachnid wrote:OK, Sat morning, coffee in hand, time to type...

Meds, the DC restart is to get people in comics that might be enjoying all the movies versions of them.
I have been reading and collecting comics since the 70's and was great to start with the early numbers.
Yeah it's a marketing ploy but also a great chance to enjoy it from the beginning again.
My only advice is buyer beware. Don't buy for speculation that they will be worth thousands one day. They won't. Enjoy them for the stories. And that's just it, the art is one thing, in a graphics medium, but not everything. The writing is everything.

Couldn't disagree more with UK. DC far out stripped Marvel in it's comics since the 80's. Although I am (obviously) a huge Spiderman fan, I collected the X-Men in the early 80's with the introduction of Wolverine and Alpha Flight (Marvel's Canadian superhero team)..as an aside John Byrne was a Canadian writer and artist that did the X-Men proud and rebooted Superman with his Smallville mini-series.
DC had The Dark Knight, Frank Millers refresh take on Batman, they also started adult mainstream comics (yes Darkhorse was there first) with Neil Gaiman's Sandman, still a shiny beacon to the graphics medium and started the adult Vertigo line for DC...next was Alan Moore's deconstruction of the superhero universe with Watchmen. As I mentioned before. DC has some amazing writers. As does Marvel. As do the independents like Darkhorse. Read reviews and pick up something that peak your interest...

I'll post some of my favourite past and present writers later...gotta wedding to write for now...


First off, agree with you on the thinking about them being worth thousands one day, if they ever get into that kind of collectors club it won't be until my grand-kids are the ones owning them (should they last that long).

Secondly, I disagree with you on the writing being everything. To back this up I'll point to one of your afore-mentioned Authors, Frank Miller. Tremendous writer, lousy artist (IMHO). I liked what I read of the Dark Knight Returns, but I hated his art-work so much I just couldn't spend the time reading. He should colaborate with the likes of Jim Lee and not do all this solo stuff. My absolute favorite story run is Batman: Hush and the subsequent spin-offs that combined Jeph Loeb's writing with Jim Lee's art. Writing is everything in a novel, but a graphic novel needs to combine both elements of story and art to be truly effective. I will stipulate and say that a comic with amazing art but shitty writing isn't worth the time of day, you may as well toss the narrative and dialogue boxes in the bin and just sell it as a book of said artist's work featuring *insert hero name*.

As for DC out-stripping Marvel, I'm not sure. I don't know enough about comics yet to agree or disagree when it comes to the various characters, publishing names, etc. I do think that DC's main characters are better stand-alone than Marvel's. Primarily their big 4. Yeah, yeah, Superman, Batman, and Wonderwoman are the big 3, but since Blackest Night and Brightest Day, there is no selling Green Lantern short. There is so much lore and myth that they have built up around the various lanterns and spectrums, and the pivotal roles that Hal Jordan has played in some of DC's big story arcs, they have a Big 4 now IMO. While Parker/Spidey, Logan/Wolverine, are great stand alone creations, the others like Stark/Iron Man, Thor, Banner/Hulk, Surfer, Cap, Daredevil, etc. really drop off to a degree. Marvel's characters have, as UK pointed out, always done a very good job portraying the humanity of the individual in question, but I have often found them to lack that superhero sense of morality (for lack of better expression). They rarely shone like that beacon of hope in the good vs evil battle the way some of DC's characters did with their incorruptible morality and ethics. The Bat always kept DC somewhat grounded in the humanity department (Adam West's portrayal excepted) and some of their lesser characters like Green Arrow, Hawk and Dove, and Guy Gardner often walked the ethical line so-to-speak by catering more to a Machiavellian philosophy in their way going about getting the job done. It is a tough call, but I think that the farmboy sense of right and wrong that DC wrote into their flagship character is what separates DC from Marvel. It is something they have maintained, and I hope they continue it into the reboot, throughout their multiple eras. They went the right way when they had Wonder Woman kill Max Lord as that was the only recourse left to her and it was the only solution that would ensure world wide safety, I was like, Finally they show some rational thought here. However, it would have sucked if Superman and Batman had condoned it. They took a major character and wrote her into the gray area all alone, but while doing so managed to keep the lines of black and white unbroken and outlined what set their heros apart. I've rambled here, and gotten off the premise of this paragraph, so I'll come back by saying that I think Marvel does do better Hero teams than DC. The Avengers and X-Men are better stories for the most part than the JLA or the Titans, and Marvel would be the runaway in that department if they hadn't written Fantastic 4 and made that their early flagship, that quartet just brings Marvel crashing back to earth somehow.

Personally I think DC just does it better. To each their own.


To tell you the truth I grew out of the superhero phase in High School, I discovered independent black & whites like the punk rock sci-fi underground (at the time) classic Love & Rockets. Man, that shit was groundbreaking. I loved Heavy Metal in the 70's so I guess I was always looking for a more adult themed comics...in Europe and Japan the adults read comics just as much as the kids, if not more so...so I discovered Dave Sim's Cerebus and Matt Wagner's Grendel (even before it was a Darkhorse publication). It was inevitable that Marvel and DC would bring out the adult stuff as their fan base grew older... but that was the thing, Marvel and DC were trying to catch up to the small, young and groundbreaking Comico, First and Darkhorse. Badger & Nexus from First Comics, although not the same as Wolverine or Green Lantern were just as good if not better art and stories.
And I highly disagree with you about the writing..as Will Eisner once said (the creator of The Spirit and 'Graphic Novels'). You can sell one comic book of really pretty artwork without a story but try and sell a series of it.
The story is the thing. Yeah, it's great to have awesome graphics but I can list dozens of comics where the artwork is OK but it is the story is awesome and a fantastic read. Just look at South Park, it was funny funny shyte but people didn't watch it for the animation, it was the written humour (although the art suited the immature comedy).
Obviously, if the art can match or surpass the story then it's a bonus fer sure but let's face it, if there is no story it is crap

Here are some of my all-time favourites that are classics in the genre...

Miracle Man -Neil Gaiman & Alan Moore both wrote this deconstruction of a superhero. Fack'n brilliant, mate
V for Vendetta -Alan Moore, nothing like the movie, better than his Watchman IMHO
The Bojefferies Saga -Alan Moore comedy, an adult Munsters, hilarious
Top Ten -Alan Moore's master piece Sci-Fi but not from the Big 2 so went under the radar of many
Preacher -Garth Ennis sick and twisted view of America & religion (or not)
Sandman -Masterpiece in any media, rivals some of our best modern literature
Love & Rockets -Gorgeous artwork & wicked stories by the Bros. Hernandez
Swampthing -Alan Moore is a genius
Cerebus -Canadian Dave Sim created the market for indie comics with this amazing book

Yeah Maus by Spiegelman was a Pulitzer prize winner and ground breaking in the medium but so are many on the above list

Some newer classics, Y The Last Man, Brian Azzarello 100 Bullets, Starman, Astro City, jeez man, so many to list...all great READS 8-)
There is no such thing as climate change...there is no such thing as climate change...there is such thing as climate change...
Arachnid
CC Legend
 
Posts: 5200
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Old Berlin

Re: Comics Anyone?

Postby Meds » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:07 pm

Arachnid wrote:
Meds wrote:
Arachnid wrote:OK, Sat morning, coffee in hand, time to type...

Meds, the DC restart is to get people in comics that might be enjoying all the movies versions of them.
I have been reading and collecting comics since the 70's and was great to start with the early numbers.
Yeah it's a marketing ploy but also a great chance to enjoy it from the beginning again.
My only advice is buyer beware. Don't buy for speculation that they will be worth thousands one day. They won't. Enjoy them for the stories. And that's just it, the art is one thing, in a graphics medium, but not everything. The writing is everything.

Couldn't disagree more with UK. DC far out stripped Marvel in it's comics since the 80's. Although I am (obviously) a huge Spiderman fan, I collected the X-Men in the early 80's with the introduction of Wolverine and Alpha Flight (Marvel's Canadian superhero team)..as an aside John Byrne was a Canadian writer and artist that did the X-Men proud and rebooted Superman with his Smallville mini-series.
DC had The Dark Knight, Frank Millers refresh take on Batman, they also started adult mainstream comics (yes Darkhorse was there first) with Neil Gaiman's Sandman, still a shiny beacon to the graphics medium and started the adult Vertigo line for DC...next was Alan Moore's deconstruction of the superhero universe with Watchmen. As I mentioned before. DC has some amazing writers. As does Marvel. As do the independents like Darkhorse. Read reviews and pick up something that peak your interest...

I'll post some of my favourite past and present writers later...gotta wedding to write for now...


First off, agree with you on the thinking about them being worth thousands one day, if they ever get into that kind of collectors club it won't be until my grand-kids are the ones owning them (should they last that long).

Secondly, I disagree with you on the writing being everything. To back this up I'll point to one of your afore-mentioned Authors, Frank Miller. Tremendous writer, lousy artist (IMHO). I liked what I read of the Dark Knight Returns, but I hated his art-work so much I just couldn't spend the time reading. He should colaborate with the likes of Jim Lee and not do all this solo stuff. My absolute favorite story run is Batman: Hush and the subsequent spin-offs that combined Jeph Loeb's writing with Jim Lee's art. Writing is everything in a novel, but a graphic novel needs to combine both elements of story and art to be truly effective. I will stipulate and say that a comic with amazing art but shitty writing isn't worth the time of day, you may as well toss the narrative and dialogue boxes in the bin and just sell it as a book of said artist's work featuring *insert hero name*.

As for DC out-stripping Marvel, I'm not sure. I don't know enough about comics yet to agree or disagree when it comes to the various characters, publishing names, etc. I do think that DC's main characters are better stand-alone than Marvel's. Primarily their big 4. Yeah, yeah, Superman, Batman, and Wonderwoman are the big 3, but since Blackest Night and Brightest Day, there is no selling Green Lantern short. There is so much lore and myth that they have built up around the various lanterns and spectrums, and the pivotal roles that Hal Jordan has played in some of DC's big story arcs, they have a Big 4 now IMO. While Parker/Spidey, Logan/Wolverine, are great stand alone creations, the others like Stark/Iron Man, Thor, Banner/Hulk, Surfer, Cap, Daredevil, etc. really drop off to a degree. Marvel's characters have, as UK pointed out, always done a very good job portraying the humanity of the individual in question, but I have often found them to lack that superhero sense of morality (for lack of better expression). They rarely shone like that beacon of hope in the good vs evil battle the way some of DC's characters did with their incorruptible morality and ethics. The Bat always kept DC somewhat grounded in the humanity department (Adam West's portrayal excepted) and some of their lesser characters like Green Arrow, Hawk and Dove, and Guy Gardner often walked the ethical line so-to-speak by catering more to a Machiavellian philosophy in their way going about getting the job done. It is a tough call, but I think that the farmboy sense of right and wrong that DC wrote into their flagship character is what separates DC from Marvel. It is something they have maintained, and I hope they continue it into the reboot, throughout their multiple eras. They went the right way when they had Wonder Woman kill Max Lord as that was the only recourse left to her and it was the only solution that would ensure world wide safety, I was like, Finally they show some rational thought here. However, it would have sucked if Superman and Batman had condoned it. They took a major character and wrote her into the gray area all alone, but while doing so managed to keep the lines of black and white unbroken and outlined what set their heros apart. I've rambled here, and gotten off the premise of this paragraph, so I'll come back by saying that I think Marvel does do better Hero teams than DC. The Avengers and X-Men are better stories for the most part than the JLA or the Titans, and Marvel would be the runaway in that department if they hadn't written Fantastic 4 and made that their early flagship, that quartet just brings Marvel crashing back to earth somehow.

Personally I think DC just does it better. To each their own.


To tell you the truth I grew out of the superhero phase in High School, I discovered independent black & whites like the punk rock sci-fi underground (at the time) classic Love & Rockets. Man, that shit was groundbreaking. I loved Heavy Metal in the 70's so I guess I was always looking for a more adult themed comics...in Europe and Japan the adults read comics just as much as the kids, if not more so...so I discovered Dave Sim's Cerebus and Matt Wagner's Grendel (even before it was a Darkhorse publication). It was inevitable that Marvel and DC would bring out the adult stuff as their fan base grew older... but that was the thing, Marvel and DC were trying to catch up to the small, young and groundbreaking Comico, First and Darkhorse. Badger & Nexus from First Comics, although not the same as Wolverine or Green Lantern were just as good if not better art and stories.
And I highly disagree with you about the writing..as Will Eisner once said (the creator of The Spirit and 'Graphic Novels'). You can sell one comic book of really pretty artwork without a story but try and sell a series of it.
The story is the thing. Yeah, it's great to have awesome graphics but I can list dozens of comics where the artwork is OK but it is the story is awesome and a fantastic read. Just look at South Park, it was funny funny shyte but people didn't watch it for the animation, it was the written humour (although the art suited the immature comedy).
Obviously, if the art can match or surpass the story then it's a bonus fer sure but let's face it, if there is no story it is crap

Here are some of my all-time favourites that are classics in the genre...

Miracle Man -Neil Gaiman & Alan Moore both wrote this deconstruction of a superhero. Fack'n brilliant, mate
V for Vendetta -Alan Moore, nothing like the movie, better than his Watchman IMHO
The Bojefferies Saga -Alan Moore comedy, an adult Munsters, hilarious
Top Ten -Alan Moore's master piece Sci-Fi but not from the Big 2 so went under the radar of many
Preacher -Garth Ennis sick and twisted view of America & religion (or not)
Sandman -Masterpiece in any media, rivals some of our best modern literature
Love & Rockets -Gorgeous artwork & wicked stories by the Bros. Hernandez
Swampthing -Alan Moore is a genius
Cerebus -Canadian Dave Sim created the market for indie comics with this amazing book

Yeah Maus by Spiegelman was a Pulitzer prize winner and ground breaking in the medium but so are many on the above list

Some newer classics, Y The Last Man, Brian Azzarello 100 Bullets, Starman, Astro City, jeez man, so many to list...all great READS 8-)


Well Spidey, I did qualify my opinion about the importance of writing vs art by saying.....

Meds wrote:I will stipulate and say that a comic with amazing art but shitty writing isn't worth the time of day, you may as well toss the narrative and dialogue boxes in the bin and just sell it as a book of said artist's work featuring *insert hero name*.


I was just about to ask you if you'd caught Y The Last man, but then I saw it in the last line of your post. I just read that one.....absolutely fantastic, I both love and hate the writer for not giving a single and definitive reason for "the plague". Brilliantly done.
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3473
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm


Return to Creeper's Bar & Grill

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest