HST

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How will you vote on the HST referendum (for BC folks only)

Poll ended at Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:44 am

YES to extinguish the HST
11
42%
NO to keep the HST
15
58%
 
Total votes: 26

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woodhog
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Re: HST

Post by woodhog » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:52 am

ClamRussel wrote: Voting "no" is the same as Daniel taking 7 punches to the face by rookie pest Marchand and doing nothing. Unless you stand up to these liars & thieves you deserve it.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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ClamRussel
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Re: HST

Post by ClamRussel » Sun Jul 10, 2011 1:53 pm

Arachnid wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Honour, integrity & respect JayZeus Clam, this isn't Disney, the system is corrupt and getting worse, those in power are in power for a reason and do what ever they want, democracy has ceased to exist, run by the corporations and you think your little rebellion will change that? It's admirable (in a Star Wars VI kinda way :blush: ) butt there is only one way outta here...if we eva get out here...thought of giving it all away...to a registered HSTay...

Spidey on the Run
I don't think clothes-lining them on this issue will change everything Spidey....but at some point you have to man up to stop Marchand from bitch slapping you right?
Yes, you are right :(

Ummm so who did we get to prevent that again? 8-)
Steve MacIntyre vs the Liberals? :lol:
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Topper
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Re: HST

Post by Topper » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:24 pm

ClamRussel wrote: Its all so corporations don't have to pay their share. Shift it onto the backs of consumers. The "theory" is they will pass the savings onto consumers but thats a big ball of spin from Colin Hansen.
It does happen.

Clam, Canada is not a corporate tax haven. Anyone can form themselves as a corporation, but the reason everyone does not do it is because it is generally cheaper not to.

It is only at a certain income level that it becomes tax advantages to become a corporation. Until that point, you are better off paying personal taxes. Even then, the company of a self employed person pays corporate tax and the person will pay personal taxes on the wage they draw out of the company.

Goods made in BC, check the grocery store, the liquor store, the lumber yard, the computer store ......
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Re: HST

Post by ClamRussel » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:10 pm

Topper wrote:Goods made in BC, check the grocery store
Groceries are not taxable, in terms of food however any pre-made meals will have HST.
Topper wrote:the lumber yard
Back in the day sure, nowadays alot of manufacturing of wood is done overseas. Raw wood exports is the big thing and we buy it back in its finished form. These days mills that were hopping just a 2 years ago are ghost-towns now even if the majority of their product was exported to the US. Knowing the state of the lumber industry in this province I don't see any savings being passed on to the consumer whatsoever. They're in full on survival mode, the one's that are left standing that is.
Topper wrote:the computer store
Almost all manufacturing done in China, no savings there.

Topper wrote:the liquor store

Good one! ...and this is where it gets interesting. One of the first industries to immediately save money under the HST was the BC wineries. Awesome! So what did they do, they passed the savings onto the consumer and dropped the price accordingly exactly how Gordo said they would. So whats the problem? Instead of trumpeting this as a clear example of how BC is better off w/ the HST what do the BC dolts in Victoria do? They screw it up thats what. Gordo & Hansen's herd of idiots go and increase the tax on a bottle of a wine so the price is exactly the same as it was before the HST cut!!! Yes you heard that right. If the price of wine dropped from $20 to $18 they tacked $2 of additional tax on it. Awesome! To top it off the extra tax didn't even go into general revenue, they gave it to their distribution buddies. In other words, no break for the consumer whatsoever. It was more important to them that we didn't get a break for whatever reason. Made no sense at all, quite the opposite. What a missed PR opportunity, completely blown actually.

Oh ya and that goes for beer as well.
Colin Hansen : "the price will stay almost exactly the same" wtf :hmmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hV_vh7Yoc
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Topper
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Re: HST

Post by Topper » Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:24 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:the lumber yard
Back in the day sure, nowadays alot of manufacturing of wood is done overseas. Raw wood exports is the big thing and we buy it back in its finished form. These days mills that were hopping just a 2 years ago are ghost-towns now even if the majority of their product was exported to the US. Knowing the state of the lumber industry in this province I don't see any savings being passed on to the consumer whatsoever. They're in full on survival mode, the one's that are left standing that is.
Plenty of mills in BC still operating Clam, I live in rural BC and work throughout the province. Lots of activity ongoing.

But I'm glad you noted the high labour cost inputs that the union mills in BC impose on lumber.
ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:the computer store
Almost all manufacturing done in China, no savings there.
Plenty of local assembly that pay HST on inputs and are able to claim it back on the HST on the selling price.


ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:the liquor store

Good one! ...and this is where it gets interesting. One of the first industries to immediately save money under the HST was the BC wineries. Awesome! So what did they do, they passed the savings onto the consumer and dropped the price accordingly exactly how Gordo said they would. So whats the problem? Instead of trumpeting this as a clear example of how BC is better off w/ the HST what do the BC dolts in Victoria do? They screw it up thats what. Gordo & Hansen's herd of idiots go and increase the tax on a bottle of a wine so the price is exactly the same as it was before the HST cut!!! Yes you heard that right. If the price of wine dropped from $20 to $18 they tacked $2 of additional tax on it. Awesome! To top it off the extra tax didn't even go into general revenue, they gave it to their distribution buddies. In other words, no break for the consumer whatsoever. It was more important to them that we didn't get a break for whatever reason. Made no sense at all, quite the opposite. What a missed PR opportunity, completely blown actually.

Oh ya and that goes for beer as well.
Colin Hansen : "the price will stay almost exactly the same" wtf :hmmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hV_vh7Yoc
Are you an alcoholic?

Now you are confusing HST and liquor taxes.

I buy a few cases of BC wine a year primarily from one winery outside of Oliver that makes a very fine Bordeaux style red and sav blanc/semillion blend white. They are horribly over priced and a terrible value, but it is a winery that is honestly trying, so I support them. For the most part it is Spanish reds at <$20/bottle that go for ~$10/bottle in the land of the free.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: HST

Post by ClamRussel » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:29 pm

Topper wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:the liquor store

Good one! ...and this is where it gets interesting. One of the first industries to immediately save money under the HST was the BC wineries. Awesome! So what did they do, they passed the savings onto the consumer and dropped the price accordingly exactly how Gordo said they would. So whats the problem? Instead of trumpeting this as a clear example of how BC is better off w/ the HST what do the BC dolts in Victoria do? They screw it up thats what. Gordo & Hansen's herd of idiots go and increase the tax on a bottle of a wine so the price is exactly the same as it was before the HST cut!!! Yes you heard that right. If the price of wine dropped from $20 to $18 they tacked $2 of additional tax on it. Awesome! To top it off the extra tax didn't even go into general revenue, they gave it to their distribution buddies. In other words, no break for the consumer whatsoever. It was more important to them that we didn't get a break for whatever reason. Made no sense at all, quite the opposite. What a missed PR opportunity, completely blown actually.

Oh ya and that goes for beer as well.
Colin Hansen : "the price will stay almost exactly the same" wtf :hmmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hV_vh7Yoc
Are you an alcoholic?

Now you are confusing HST and liquor taxes.

I buy a few cases of BC wine a year primarily from one winery outside of Oliver that makes a very fine Bordeaux style red and sav blanc/semillion blend white. They are horribly over priced and a terrible value, but it is a winery that is honestly trying, so I support them. For the most part it is Spanish reds at <$20/bottle that go for ~$10/bottle in the land of the free.
I'm not confusing anything here, I'm talking sticker price. The sticker price was originally reduced by the wine industry (due to HST input savings) and the Liberals went and bumped it up w/ hidden tax so that the price remained idle. My point is they pulled one hand out of your left pocket while sticking their other hand into your right one. This happened intentionally but the bottom line is the bottom line right? Who gives a shit if the wineries lowered THEIR price if the govt went and fixed it so the sticker price is the exact same. In other words there is NO savings whatsoever.

To prove I'm not an alcoholic I'll switch gears to another liquid scam and that is fuel and the carbon tax. Did you know on the very same day the HST came into effect they provided an exemption from HST on gasoline? Did you also know on that very same day they HIKED the carbon tax by the same amount as the HST exemption? It didn't get much play in the media, just a minor mention and then it was swept under the carpet. Out one pocket and into the other. Just two examples of the shell game this government loves to play....one other was the increase to MST premiums.

The money has to come from somewhere so don't believe this HST "reduction" down to 10% in 2014. I've seen this game before and you can expect that reduction to be canceled (much like Gordo's final income tax cut) or else taxes will be raised elsewhere. The budget cannot afford a 2% reduction from a tax shift that is "revenue neutral". Either way the loss will be made up by the common peasants in this province. You can bet on that!
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Re: HST

Post by Topper » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:36 pm

Carbon tax increases are scheduled.

I've never said anything about tax reduction. I stated earlier that all we are looking at is a lag in the increase.
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Re: HST

Post by ClamRussel » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:38 pm

Topper wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:the lumber yard
Back in the day sure, nowadays alot of manufacturing of wood is done overseas. Raw wood exports is the big thing and we buy it back in its finished form. These days mills that were hopping just a 2 years ago are ghost-towns now even if the majority of their product was exported to the US. Knowing the state of the lumber industry in this province I don't see any savings being passed on to the consumer whatsoever. They're in full on survival mode, the one's that are left standing that is.
Plenty of mills in BC still operating Clam, I live in rural BC and work throughout the province. Lots of activity ongoing.

But I'm glad you noted the high labour cost inputs that the union mills in BC impose on lumber.
I can only speak from the lower mainland and what I've seen on the news....down here its dreadful. Most mills are shut down or bankrupt. Mills that were thriving for decades. I'll take your word for it in the rural areas. Would you say the activity is down from a few years ago? Just out of curiousity.
Topper wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:the computer store
Almost all manufacturing done in China, no savings there.
Plenty of local assembly that pay HST on inputs and are able to claim it back on the HST on the selling price.
Perhaps, but I'd say the majority is done overseas ie everything sold by Dell, HP, Apple, Sony etc. There will be no input savings on any major brand products whatsoever.
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Re: HST

Post by ClamRussel » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:40 pm

Topper wrote:Carbon tax increases are scheduled.

I've never said anything about tax reduction. I stated earlier that all we are looking at is a lag in the increase.
Never meant to imply you did; just making a point to the overall HST scheme.
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Re: HST

Post by LotusBlossom » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:42 am

I gotta give it to you, Clam. You're the only one I know that comes to a bar that I am sitting at, with my friends, having some bevvies prior to a Canucks game and gets pretty much everyone at my table to sign the petition.

I decided to compare some dinner receipts since the introduction of the HST to some prior to the HST. The difference is pretty significant. As a business owner, I can write those off and in reality it's easier for me to do my corporate taxes etc.
If I was just an everyday working person, with no business write-offs, I'd be very upset seeing my disposable income go out quicker than it has been previously. So, of course, I am going to be against something that is taking it from me without any sort of substantial difference of the extra levy being shown to me in any sort of time frame.

I just want to know, this time around, why I should vote to abolish it and go back to the old ways of taxing? On principle alone, with the way it came in, I should vote YES to abolish the tax, on the other hand, as a business owner, it should be a benefit for me to keep it. It's a struggle, but as I was talking to CB about this, sometimes, you just have to do the right thing, even if it means you lose out a little on it from your own personal end...

Addition: Clam, when I read my package, I will read it all through and make the best decision based on facts. Emotion plays high in BC about this, and the problem is, no one seems to read much these days...perhaps they should.
Last edited by LotusBlossom on Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HST

Post by Arachnid » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:24 am

ClamRussel wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
I don't think clothes-lining them on this issue will change everything Spidey....but at some point you have to man up to stop Marchand from bitch slapping you right?
Yes, you are right :(

Ummm so who did we get to prevent that again? 8-)
Steve MacIntyre vs the Liberals? :lol:
I was think'n more Georges Laraque, him and Elizabeth would make a great line, she with her scoring ability and playing in the The Show and him as the enforcer (together they would weigh in on the opposition of the day but good...oh butt woota weigh-in)

Parachute him into Squampton or Merritt and work on the Carbon Tax I say! 8-)
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)

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Re: HST

Post by Topper » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:55 am

Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

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Re: HST

Post by Arachnid » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:37 am

Topper wrote:I agree with most of this

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Op ... story.html
Fight! Fight! Fight!
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Re: HST

Post by Aaronp18 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:55 am

Does anyone else find it ironic that 2 of the guys contributing the most to the HST debate don't live anywhere near BC?

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