Kneecaps

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Re: Kneecaps

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:58 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Will Deb Macpherson be front and centre ? The nurses are well compensated and they can make all the fucking announcements they want. They are an essential service so their lip service will do little other than fire up an already angry govt.

As Ferris Bueller said ; "I've said it before , I'll say it again" : The Teamsters ( Longshoremen) are the ONLY union in the province with any teeth. Any of the other unions these days are little more than a paper tiger . I know unioncanuck is not happy with this but it is the cold, hard truth.

Nurses are overworked, short staffed and underpaid.

And they too a victims of the carcinoma they call the BC Liberals.

I would love to see a general strike, a students strike and a parent protest all at once. Fuck this party up permanently. Frankly I'd rather the BC Conservative party got all your righty votes. At least they got the balls to call themselves what they are.

These drunk driving, lying, cheating stacks of shit need to go...
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:59 pm

I'll bet they are all closet leaf fans too...
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Strangelove » Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:10 pm

ukcanuck wrote:Nurses are overworked, short staffed and underpaid.

And they too a victims of the carcinoma they call the BC Liberals.

I would love to see a general strike, a students strike and a parent protest all at once. Fuck this party up permanently. Frankly I'd rather the BC Conservative party got all your righty votes. At least they got the balls to call themselves what they are.

These drunk driving, lying, cheating stacks of shit need to go...



OKAY RABBLE-ROUSER LET'S GO...

Image

Relax, nurses are probably just gonna offer up financial support...
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:13 pm

Haha :)
It's still not even preseason...

On a different note, played my second beer league game here in Dubai.

It's strange playing with Russians, swedes, and Fins as well as the boys from back home.

Russians are strange ..
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Meds » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:30 am

ukcanuck wrote:It's called the cycle of poverty. It's generational and burdens young people with zero upward mobility and shackles many with mental illness and substance abuse from the womb.
They grow up enough significantly disadvantaged and have more children who do the same.

These people can't hold down jobs and they are victims and they must be looked after in a tolerant society.

No matter what some of our less tolerant citizens would like.


I'm cherry picking this snippet of your post, but just because it is the crux of much of the problem.

I recognize that there are people with mental illness and people who have a disadvantage from childhood.....but it is too easy to lump children, and even adults, into this category as an excuse for laziness or poor parents.

The number of kids who get "diagnosed" as having ADHD or some other form of mental illness is skyrocketing. Some of this is due to recognition and awareness.....LOTS more has to do with parents who don't put the time into their kids, and teens/young adults who would rather not put the effort into life.

From what I've read in Topper's posts when he mentions his son, and also reading between the lines a little in other posts, he's a pretty switched on dad who engages with his child. So he's going to get fed up quickly with the expenses and shit that dumps into special needs when he can probably see clearly that a lot of it has to do with parents who would rather let their kids slack off and dump the half of the responsibility of raising their children onto teachers.

Even his comment about ESL.....ummm.....hello.....we are an English speaking country. The number of children entering into the public school system who were born here in Canada that have no, or very little, grasp of English is laughable.

But now I'm rabbit-trailing.

The bottom line is that painting many people as victims gives them an easy way out. It's stupid. Any parent can get their child diagnosed with ADHD or some other learning disorder just by feeding the kid a steady diet of sugar and video games. They just paint a bad picture to the doctor and exaggerate the natural energy that every child has.....boom. Instant learning disability.

The kid is only a victim of his parent, and society's, desire for the quick fix and soft landing for everyone.
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Meds » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:33 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Will Deb Macpherson be front and centre ? The nurses are well compensated and they can make all the fucking announcements they want. They are an essential service so their lip service will do little other than fire up an already angry govt.

As Ferris Bueller said ; "I've said it before , I'll say it again" : The Teamsters ( Longshoremen) are the ONLY union in the province with any teeth. Any of the other unions these days are little more than a paper tiger . I know unioncanuck is not happy with this but it is the cold, hard truth.

Nurses are overworked, short staffed and underpaid.

And they too a victims of the carcinoma they call the BC Liberals.

I would love to see a general strike, a students strike and a parent protest all at once. Fuck this party up permanently. Frankly I'd rather the BC Conservative party got all your righty votes. At least they got the balls to call themselves what they are.

These drunk driving, lying, cheating stacks of shit need to go...


My wife is a RN, she's NOT underpaid.

Can't argue with the "short staffed" though. But how much of that is because people don't want to wipe asses and change beds all of the time after 4 years of post-secondary schooling?

Sure more funding would help, to some extent, but where does this money come from?

I get a kick out of how you rant and wave a flag.....but you don't even live here anymore. Your information is all what you read and not what you experience or see first hand.
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:44 am

Dude I still got a home there, I still pay taxes there and I voted in the last provincial election

I think qualifies me as much as the next poster to rant about kneecapping.

And why so you insist on chasing red herrings ?
I already showed you that the amount of money going to support the poor (freeloaders) is minimal.

Why don't you cry about corporate welfare and crony capitalism?

That's where your attention is being diverted from.
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Topper » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:38 am

ukcanuck wrote:A great example:

Topper points out that good ol Dave Barrett once tried to make mines pay taxes for the total wealth of a mine a company owned, not for what they pull out of the ground in any particular year. Sounds completely in business like on the surface.

But it seems to me the mines have themselves a tidy little line of credit they are paying no interest on.

They know the total worth of the ore in that mine and they can calculate world prices and make withdrawals as they need to. Plus they can bank on that value and borrow against it. They own the licence to it, no one else can touch it and the province share?
Not so much..

I think ol Barrett was on to something there.

Wrong

The in situ value of a deposit is $0.

It only has value when it is extracted. Reserves go up and down with metal prices. The easiest way to increase the reserves of a deposit is to have the commodity price increase. The fastest way to close a mine is have commodity prices drop.

What grade of a commodity is economic to mine? It depends on the commodity price. If you add a tax on the mine, you effectively lower the commodity price, you therefore lower the mine reserves.

You will also stifle exploration. Why try to find something if it immediately adds to your tax burden before it is in production.

Would you agree to a tax on your savings account?

Example, Galore Creek Deposit in north western BC, Teck and their partner were spending several hundred million a year doing engineering and environmental studies, detailed exploration, constructing road access to the site...... They flew in a 300+ man camp, they had the worlds largest heavy lift helicopter bringing in heavy equipment to the site.

All for the detailed work that would get the project into the mine development stage and mine permitting process.

Then Teck's economists downward adjusted their long term outlook on the prices of copper and gold.

The project, overnight, went into engineering care and maintenance with only exploration being carried out.

Another example, an exploration project I have been involved in for the past decade was optioned from us by a major international mining company. Metal prices at the time were escalating, every six months,we would get updated long term projected metal values from their economists to use in our in house reserve estimates and they were always increasing. Up until two years ago when commodity prices began to fall and few saw it coming. The project went from being one of BC largest exploration projects (~$7million/year budget, 20,000m drilling/yr over four years) to being completely shuttered as gold prices fell and the company began to loose money.

Another example, Highland Valley Copper - Canada's largest copper mine and one of the largest open pit operations in the world, south of Kamloops, just outside of Logan Lake. It was due to close in 2002 having exhausted it's ore. Further exploration, a better understanding of the geology and increased commodity prices (from the historic average of $0.90/lb Cu) have Teck still operating and projecting a 2020+ for end of mine life.

So tell me UK, what is the value of the deposit in the ground?

Tell me UK, would you put your money in a bank in a country that taxes your savings account?

Red Commie Dave was was killing investment in BC and jobs for British Columbians.
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Topper » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:53 am

My sister the special needs TA is getting $70/day to picket for two hours with the teachers. $35/hr??????? WTF

She's not BCTF, she's CUPE.

Meds, you're right, we do spend a lot of time with our kid, but I don't see him much different than his peers. Could be because his peers also have parents who spend time with their kids.

Jesus christo folks, read to your kids. If you don't have time to read to your kids, life is wrong.
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:25 am

Topper wrote:
The in situ value of a deposit is $0.


This is a disingenuous statement. There is obvious value in any known deposit and your mining companies are pretty much all over it like Oprah on a baked ham.
If there was zero value we wouldn't have this conversation.

Topper wrote:It only has value when it is extracted. Reserves go up and down with metal prices. The easiest way to increase the reserves of a deposit is to have the commodity price increase. The fastest way to close a mine is have commodity prices drop.


Interesting that you use the term reserve, as in we will reserve our option to set the perceived value on any given day depending on artificial constructs.

Obviously, the price one gets on market day fluctuates but the inherent value remains. So whether you sell it today, tomorrow, next week or next year it's never actually a loss.
Unless of course you count a profit you didn't make today as a loss...
But that is speculative at best and no one should have a guarantee of that.


Topper wrote:What grade of a commodity is economic to mine? It depends on the commodity price. If you add a tax on the mine, you effectively lower the commodity price, you therefore lower the mine reserves.


More dishonest language, Barrett wasn't adding a tax at all, he was trying to stop mines from deferring the tax they already owed.

Are you entitled to defer your taxes until such time as it suits you to pay them?

Topper wrote:You will also stifle exploration. Why try to find something if it immediately adds to your tax burden before it is in production.

Would you agree to a tax on your savings account?


Ahh but it's not your bank account is it? The deposit belongs to the people if BC. So it erroneous for mining companies to imply ownership at all.

Yes it is a gamble (in this day and age more like an educated guess) to go looking for new deposits but that's the gamble all business risk when they invest.
No one deserves a guarantee against losses. Especially when we are talking about extracting our descendant's inheritance.

Topper wrote:Example, Galore Creek Deposit in north western BC, Teck and their partner were spending several hundred million a year doing engineering and environmental studies, detailed exploration, constructing road access to the site...... They flew in a 300+ man camp, they had the worlds largest heavy lift helicopter bringing in heavy equipment to the site.

All for the detailed work that would get the project into the mine development stage and mine permitting process.

Then Teck's economists downward adjusted their long term outlook on the prices of copper and gold.

The project, overnight, went into engineering care and maintenance with only exploration being carried out


Impressive on the surface but it amounts to more of the same argument. Teck having identified and placed the infrastructure to extract the resources present at galore creek are now sitting on it waiting to cash in as they see fit.
I'm sure that the value of the ore has been added to the value of the company and they sell shares and borrow and lend that value on a daily basis.

When the time comes they will cash in and they will have sold a line of bullshit that they shouldn't have to pay tax because "look the price of copper is only x per tonne.

On the streets that's call a shell game...

Topper wrote:Another example, an exploration project I have been involved in for the past decade was optioned from us by a major international mining company. Metal prices at the time were escalating, every six months,we would get updated long term projected metal values from their economists to use in our in house reserve estimates and they were always increasing. Up until two years ago when commodity prices began to fall and few saw it coming. The project went from being one of BC largest exploration projects (~$7million/year budget, 20,000m drilling/yr over four years) to being completely shuttered as gold prices fell and the company began to loose money.


Wait, optioned from you?
Meaning another company purchased the theoretical value of the deposits in your mine?

Wouldn't that prove there is value on a deposit before it's extracted?

It does sound unfortunate for the major international mine that took a gamble but at the end of the day the deposits are still there and hey the house always wins right?

Seems to me that this major player hedges it's bets pretty good thanks to the work you were doing and it also seems as an international corporation they manage to mitigate their losses pretty well.

Topper wrote:Another example, Highland Valley Copper - Canada's largest copper mine and one of the largest open pit operations in the world, south of Kamloops, just outside of Logan Lake. It was due to close in 2002 having exhausted it's ore. Further exploration, a better understanding of the geology and increased commodity prices (from the historic average of $0.90/lb Cu) have Teck still operating and projecting a 2020+ for end of mine life.


Highland valley is a great example of a steady operation that has been going on for years. A blue chip investment (no pun intended)

Whoever has owned that hole in the ground has made their money no question. But the province had to wait for it's money after a long line of investors and shareholders got theirs didn't it?





Topper wrote:So tell me UK, what is the value of the deposit in the ground?


Like I said before it's a disingenuous question, the value is intrinsic otherwise no one would dig it up in the first place.

Topper wrote:Tell me UK, would you put your money in a bank in a country that taxes your savings account?

Red Commie Dave was was killing investment in BC and jobs for British Columbians.


All banks charge fees on savings accounts and it's not your savings we are talking about. The metals in the ground belong to everyone.

Your last statement "commie" Dave is apropos,

Your arguments are old school bait and switch.
Derisive personal comments linked to Cold War propaganda.

Communism does not describe the political ground upon which unionist and social minded people stand.

Dave Barrett is no more a communist than Jimmy Pattison is a nazi.

Yet this is the first page in the right handed play book, divert attention to the irrelevant and hope everyone missed the obvious.

(Sadly it seems to work on meds)
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby SKYO » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:05 pm

As for the nurses...

BC Nurses' Union pres. Gayle Duteil says union is giving teachers $500,000 to help them in their fight for quality public education #bced
:thumbs:

AND

Local unions offer BCTF $8-million in interest free loans to continue teachers’ strike


http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/09/local-unions-offer-bctf-8-million-interest-free-loans-continue-teachers-strike/
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Topper » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:15 pm

LOL UK

You believe companies should be forced to operate at loss while being taxed on the gross value of their loss making operations.

Is this why Commie Red Dave bought Ocean Falls? Panco Poultry? Swan Lake Potatoe Chips?

Did you know that ore is an economic term for rock that can be extracted at a profit?

Did you know that a reserve is defined not just in terms of grade and tonnage but also by a cutoff grade? That the cutoff grade is defined by commodity price, mining and engineering costs, social economic cost, and taxation costs?

Do you know the difference between mineral title and a mining lease?

Do you know the difference between inferred, indicated and measured?

Do you know that the grade varies within a deposit?

Do you understand anything of the time value of money?
Last edited by Topper on Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Topper » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:51 pm

Teachers voting on conditional binding arbitration while refusing to sit down at the bargaining table is an acknowledgement of their refusal to bargain in good faith.
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Topper » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:53 pm

SKYO wrote:As for the nurses...

BC Nurses' Union pres. Gayle Duteil says union is giving teachers $500,000 to help them in their fight for quality public education #bced
:thumbs:

AND

Local unions offer BCTF $8-million in interest free loans to continue teachers’ strike


http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/09/local-unions-offer-bctf-8-million-interest-free-loans-continue-teachers-strike/

Is it any surprise that the nurses are up next to the bargaining table
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Re: Kneecaps

Postby Strangelove » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:00 pm

Topper wrote:My sister the special needs TA is getting $70/day to picket for two hours with the teachers. $35/hr??????? WTF

She's not BCTF, she's CUPE.


So that $70 per day is coming from CUPE... who are not on strike right?

That's A LOT of money for a union to cough up in this day & age!

(CUPE would probably be obliged to give her that money whether she joined BCTF on the picket line or not btw)

I'm wondering why BCTF doesn't make an agreement with CUPE for the support staff (TAs, bus-drivers, etc)

... to cross the lines so that they can twiddle their thumbs with the right to be paid by the School Board.

It would save CUPE $70/day/per and cost the Management Side in this dispute some pretty big bucks.

Okay, now I'm wondering if some backroom deal was cut between Management/Government and CUPE.

Yeah, I'm wondering if Management/Government is somehow kicking in a large chunk of that $70 per day.
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