The Ukraine

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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Per » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:33 am

So, I've been listening to Putin. Crimea has always been Russian. The transfer of the peninsula to the Ukraine in 1956 was a historic mistake that now has been corrected. OK. Same reasoning as regarding Sudetenland in 1938, and we know that Chamberlain et al accepted that.

But how about Königsberg? It has been an integral part of Germany since the 13th century, but was transferred to Russia in 1945 through yet another so called historic mistake, and is now commonly referred to as Kaliningrad. It's squeezed in between two NATO and EU members (Lithuania and Poland) at the Baltic coast and has no mainland connection to Russia.

Isn't it time it was reunited with the rest of Germany? Or perhaps with the rest of Ostpreussen, which today is part of Poland? Either solution would make much more sense than the current situation, and I'm sure the Russians will understand, as it would be by the same principle as they use as justification for stealing Crimea from the Ukies.
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Topper » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:02 am

Good thing the Alaskan panhandle was bought and paid for. Maybe Canada should claim back the area north of the Columbia River. Don't get started on Mexico's claim in the Western US.

Seriously though, the Russian population of Crimea makes it far more sensible to be a part of Russia the Ukraine.
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Arachnid » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:14 am

Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbour know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
We keep the wall between us as we go.
To each the boulders that have fallen to each.
And some are loaves and some so nearly balls
We have to use a spell to make them balance:
“Stay where you are until our backs are turned!”
We wear our fingers rough with handling them.
Oh, just another kind of out-door game,
One on a side. It comes to little more:
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
He only says, “Good fences make good neighbours.”
Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
“Why do they make good neighbours? Isn’t it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I’d ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn’t love a wall,
That wants it down.” I could say “Elves” to him,
But it’s not elves exactly, and I’d rather
He said it for himself. I see him there
Bringing a stone grasped firmly by the top
In each hand, like an old-stone savage armed.
He moves in darkness as it seems to me,
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.
He will not go behind his father’s saying,
And he likes having thought of it so well
He says again, “Good fences make good neighbours.”

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Re: The Ukraine

Postby SKYO » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:11 pm

Interesting read.

The Strangelove Effect: How We are Hoodwinked into Accepting a New World War

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-strangelove-effect-how-we-are-hoodwinked-into-accepting-a-new-world-war/5378251
I watched Dr. Strangelove the other day. I have seen it perhaps a dozen times; it makes sense of senseless news. When Major T.J. “King” Kong goes “toe to toe with the Rooskies” and flies his rogue B52 nuclear bomber to a target in Russia, it’s left to General “Buck” Turgidson to reassure the President. Strike first, says the general, and “you got no more than 10 to 20 million killed, tops.”

President Merkin Muffley: “I will not go down in history as the greatest mass-murderer since Adolf Hitler.”

General Turgidson: “Perhaps it might be better, Mr. President, if you were more concerned with the American people than with your image in the history books.”....
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Lancer » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:21 pm

Putin is doing this because he can. The US and Europe have pretty much spent themselves since the 90s on the Balkans, North Africa and the Middle East; military budgets are getting slashed to make up for national deficits while economies are still recovering from the latest downturn; and the only nations with credit to spend and militaries to deploy around are Russia and China.

Ukraine was supposed to be in the bag after the Orange Revolution failed and Russia periodically reminded Ukrainians (and the rest of Europe) exactly who heats their homes in winter. The fact that the Maidan movement succeeded was more than just unpalatable - it was inconceivable. Now they're playing dirty with enough ethnic Russians in-place to help the professional troublemakers provoke the Ukrainians into giving Putin justification for moving in. It's like this constant baiting of Ukrainian forces while both sides know full well that the Ukrainians can't just roll in and pacify the joint properly because that's exactly what the Russians want.

Looking at the long-game though, Ukraine will eventually join NATO - though no doubt with some kind of agreement about disposition of forces. Ukraine will be a huge headache for European economists after conundrums like Greece and Cyprus, but will remain in Europe's orbit. Hopefully, the European nations will look at finally weaning themselves off of 'cheap' Russian energy and hitting Putin where it hurts - economically. Besides, there's a proposed pipeline to an Atlantic port here which could service their energy needs without the spectre of the taps turning off.
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Per » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Getting ugly. The pro-russian militia have seized a bus of OSCE observers and are holding them captive. The OSCE is a Pan-European organisation for peace and cooperation and Russia is a member, so this should be embarassing for Putin. A gross violation of international law and treaties.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... -slavyansk
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Lancer » Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:23 pm

Per wrote:Getting ugly. The pro-russian militia have seized a bus of OSCE observers and are holding them captive. The OSCE is a Pan-European organisation for peace and cooperation and Russia is a member, so this should be embarassing for Putin. A gross violation of international law and treaties.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/a ... -slavyansk


The differences between the Maidan protesters and these goons just keeps getting more and more evident. I can't remember even Right Sector being this stupid.

It's one thing for Putin's proxies in the Crimea not letting OSCE observers in, but to essentially hold them hostage is quite another. Can't believe Putin's goons made such a blunder when they weren't doing too badly in this covert passive-aggressive sham. I'm looking forward to seeing how ITAR-TASS is going to spin this one. I mean, it's all a western fascist plot to overthrow the Rodina after all. :roll:
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Per » Wed May 21, 2014 12:57 pm

In a gesture of solidarity the Three Crowns, Sweden's national team, are wearing the Ukrainian colours during all games at the ongoing world championships. Blue and yellow. But you won't hear this mentioned in the media.
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Rumsfeld » Wed May 21, 2014 1:53 pm

Per wrote:In a gesture of solidarity the Three Crowns, Sweden's national team, are wearing the Ukrainian colours during all games at the ongoing world championships. Blue and yellow. But you won't hear this mentioned in the media.


Isn't that what you guys did when everyone else was fighting the Nazis?
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Per » Thu May 22, 2014 10:58 am

Rumsfeld wrote:
Per wrote:In a gesture of solidarity the Three Crowns, Sweden's national team, are wearing the Ukrainian colours during all games at the ongoing world championships. Blue and yellow. But you won't hear this mentioned in the media.


Isn't that what you guys did when everyone else was fighting the Nazis?


No, there weren't any world championships held between 1939 and 1947. :|
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby SKYO » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:31 pm

And now the pro russian rebels shoot down a passenger airplane, no country gives a shit. lol :o

Russia is just too big and powerful.

Image

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/three-pro-russia-rebel-leaders-suspects-over-downed-mh17
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Re: The Ukraine

Postby Topper » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:40 pm

Vlad's dutch treat.

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