GDT: Canucks @ HollywooDD, CBC, 7:00pm PST

[Benjo]

I stayed at the Gatsby mansion in Victoria for new year's eve last night so I decided to read the forum and then watch. So far with 4 minutes left in the first it looks like the Canucks didn't have their heart in this one even before the rough stuff started.

Edit- you know its bad when Penner is winning puck races...

[Hockey Widow]

I don't think we will see 3 changes but I think we are going to see something

This from practice today;

"Vigneault not happy with physical response by Lapierre, Weise, Alberts against #Kings. "I was expecting a lot more from those guys."

With all due respect to AV, the 3 players he mentioned are all terrible fighters, although I agree that there wasn't enough push back in terms of hitting either.

Canucks probably want at least one more regular player that can hit and fight, and perhaps a 13th forward type who they can spot in against more physical teams (a healthy Volpatti would be a fit for that role).

I like Gleason and Dorsett, not so high on Moen....

It's starting to sound like AV has had it though, and a guy like Weise who is clearly very marginal, could bear the brunt of his frustration.

No kidding they are not fighters. And Lappy has never been known as a push back type of guy. To expect that from him puts him outside his role. He was great for us last season and good at the start of the year but has been pretty invisible for a while now. But he is not and never was brought in for muscle.

Alberts and Weise on the other hand are on the team to provide a physical presence but it is clear that neither can do so effectively. Alberts to his credit did try. AV loves Rome but even if healthy he has never provided that type of push back. Perhaps as a lot of others have been saying it is time to part with guys like Raymond and Hodgson, not because they are not valuable, but because we need some tough assholes up front. And yes, I am now prepared to acknowledge that it is time to trade Ballard too and use his cap space more constructively. Tanev can give us what Ballard brings.

[Benjo]

I love the inconsistency in officiating that occurs even within a game let alone a season and playoffs. Kesler gets his stick absolutely obliterated with a 2 handed axe swing with no call then Raymond gets 2 for a shin tap. Kerry Fraser once wrote in his TSN blog that officials review their work on DVD after the game. I hope the officials see Doughty's Shit eating grin after the Raymond "slash" and remember it for next time.

[dhabums]

II prefer the officiating in what I've seen from International Ice Hockey.

This has to be the first time history that these words were spoken (or typed) in English.

[Waffle]

"I called Clarke over to the bench, looked over at Kharlamov and said, 'I think he needs a tap on the ankle.' I didn't think twice about it. It was Us versus Them. And Kharlamov was killing us. I mean, somebody had to do it. And I sure wasn't going to ask Henderson."
- John Ferguson, an assistant coach with Team Canada '72

Fred I disagree with you.

The Sedins are screwed because of the cultural underpinnings of the hockey world. The Sedins and the GM seem to think hockey is a game where sportsmanship rules....its not. It is a business where you do everything you can to screw the other guy, especially the “inferior” non Canadian players because the NHL, the teams that employ them, the media, and the fans will let you get away with it for their own selfish reasons.

If the Sedins retired tomorrow, the NHL would hardly notice because it would do nothing to their revenues. Oh there might be a few “that’s too bad” type comments, but I would bet there would be even more comments villifying them and calling them quitters if it became known they quit because of the abuse. There would be very few fans outside of Vancouver that would care, and in fact a lot of fans in other cities would be happy as their teams would have a better chance to win. Also I would be very surprized if Vancouver didn’t continue to sell out their games - you think fans would boycott games if they weren’t playing? I suspect the Sedins won’t quit as they do not want to be remembered as the Marcel Dionne’s of this time frame. or perhaps more to the point, the Peter Statsny/Matts Sundins. But I wouldn’t be surprized if they retired after winning a Stanley Cup.

I was wondering if I was them what I would do to try to win a Cup, screw over the NHL and the media and fans in the other cities, enhance my reputation, and get the hell out while my brain was still intact. If they have kept at least 50% of the money they have made, they each have over 15 million dollars from their careers here so far, so can live comfortably.

So, what I would do is speak to the GM, and tear up my contract. I would resign for $2 million per season, a one year deal, on the understanding that the freed up cap space would be used to improve the team to make winning a Stanley Cup more likely (I wouldn’t let on I was going to retire if the team won the cup). It seems to me with the Canucks cap space the way it is, it is very unlikely that they are going to be able to get players on the bottom two lines who can not only play, but also give back worse than any team member gets like Bobbie Clarke would have done. Henrik and Daniel, if you are reading this, think about!

[Hockey Widow]

So, what I would do is speak to the GM, and tear up my contract. I would resign for $2 million per season, a one year deal, on the understanding that the freed up cap space would be used to improve the team to make winning a Stanley Cup more likely (I wouldn’t let on I was going to retire if the team won the cup). It seems to me with the Canucks cap space the way it is, it is very unlikely that they are going to be able to get players on the bottom two lines who can not only play, but also give back worse than any team member gets like Bobbie Clarke would have done. Henrik and Daniel, if you are reading this, think about!

How exactly do you envision them tearing up the contract since the CBA prohibits renegotiating in any form during the term of an active contract. In other words what you are suggesting is simply undoable.

[ukcanuck]

So, what I would do is speak to the GM, and tear up my contract. I would resign for $2 million per season, a one year deal, on the understanding that the freed up cap space would be used to improve the team to make winning a Stanley Cup more likely (I wouldn’t let on I was going to retire if the team won the cup). It seems to me with the Canucks cap space the way it is, it is very unlikely that they are going to be able to get players on the bottom two lines who can not only play, but also give back worse than any team member gets like Bobbie Clarke would have done. Henrik and Daniel, if you are reading this, think about!

How exactly do you envision them tearing up the contract since the CBA prohibits renegotiating in any form during the term of an active contract. In other words what you are suggesting is simply undoable.

no kidding HW, can you imagine the chaos if every player who is stuck in the minors or Europe because they signed for too much money, could take a pay cut to get back in the show? savvy GMs would make mincemeat out of a situation where they could manipulate players by convincing them to renegotiate.
That's why I was/am so impressed by Burrows contract, he will stay in the league much longer because he didn't try to hit a home run but went for a base hit knowing he hasn't priced himself out of the league when he is no longer producing at a first line clip.

[rats19]

Personally I think I am seeing a tad more aggression from the brothers..I would just fucking love It If one of them fought and held thier own or won....can you Imagine how the other player would ne ridiculed?..lmfao

[RoyalDude]

"I called Clarke over to the bench, looked over at Kharlamov and said, 'I think he needs a tap on the ankle.' I didn't think twice about it. It was Us versus Them. And Kharlamov was killing us. I mean, somebody had to do it. And I sure wasn't going to ask Henderson."
- John Ferguson, an assistant coach with Team Canada '72

Fred I disagree with you.

The Sedins are screwed because of the cultural underpinnings of the hockey world. The Sedins and the GM seem to think hockey is a game where sportsmanship rules....its not. It is a business where you do everything you can to screw the other guy, especially the “inferior” non Canadian players because the NHL, the teams that employ them, the media, and the fans will let you get away with it for their own selfish reasons.

If the Sedins retired tomorrow, the NHL would hardly notice because it would do nothing to their revenues. Oh there might be a few “that’s too bad” type comments, but I would bet there would be even more comments villifying them and calling them quitters if it became known they quit because of the abuse. There would be very few fans outside of Vancouver that would care, and in fact a lot of fans in other cities would be happy as their teams would have a better chance to win. Also I would be very surprized if Vancouver didn’t continue to sell out their games - you think fans would boycott games if they weren’t playing? I suspect the Sedins won’t quit as they do not want to be remembered as the Marcel Dionne’s of this time frame. or perhaps more to the point, the Peter Statsny/Matts Sundins. But I wouldn’t be surprized if they retired after winning a Stanley Cup.

I was wondering if I was them what I would do to try to win a Cup, screw over the NHL and the media and fans in the other cities, enhance my reputation, and get the hell out while my brain was still intact. If they have kept at least 50% of the money they have made, they each have over 15 million dollars from their careers here so far, so can live comfortably.

So, what I would do is speak to the GM, and tear up my contract. I would resign for $2 million per season, a one year deal, on the understanding that the freed up cap space would be used to improve the team to make winning a Stanley Cup more likely (I wouldn’t let on I was going to retire if the team won the cup). It seems to me with the Canucks cap space the way it is, it is very unlikely that they are going to be able to get players on the bottom two lines who can not only play, but also give back worse than any team member gets like Bobbie Clarke would have done. Henrik and Daniel, if you are reading this, think about!

I felt like I just read the ramblings of a damaged brain.

[RoyalDude]

Perhaps as a lot of others have been saying it is time to part with guys like Raymond and Hodgson, not because they are not valuable, but because we need some tough assholes up front. And yes, I am now prepared to acknowledge that it is time to trade Ballard too and use his cap space more constructively. Tanev can give us what Ballard brings.

Widow, you don't trade a Hodgson or a Raymond for a knuckledragger? Holy shit, replace skill with non-skill, someone who will fight the Hordichuks of the world? Serious?

I would move Ballard for a goon, would love to see a Matt Carkner, Dave Englland type in our 6th spot on D, bring Tanev up. And get the useless idiot Weise out of there and get a quality fighter in that spot.

[Tiger]

Bobbie Clarke said after the summit series

When asked about the slash years later, Clarke said, "If I hadn't learned to lay on a two-hander once in a while, I'd never have left Flin Flon

Its all about winning .. and this was the most exciting hockey series ever played.. I don't expect the Sedin's to do a Bobby Clarke but it would be great if they played a tougher game..

[RoyalDude]

Bobbie Clarke said after the summit series

When asked about the slash years later, Clarke said, "If I hadn't learned to lay on a two-hander once in a while, I'd never have left Flin Flon

Its all about winning .. and this was the most exciting hockey series ever played.. I don't expect the Sedin's to do a Bobby Clarke but it would be great if they played a tougher game..

I can't believe we are complaining about two players who will go down as the two greatest players to don a Canuck uniform. It's that Canadian Hockey Red Neck Don Cherry Caught in the Dark Ages mentality that I can't stand, are we trying to regress here or progress the game? Now we are going back to longing for the days of Bobby Clarke 1970's NHL Hockey. Maybe we should bring back bench clearing brawls as well.

[dhabums]

Bobbie Clarke said after the summit series

When asked about the slash years later, Clarke said, "If I hadn't learned to lay on a two-hander once in a while, I'd never have left Flin Flon

Its all about winning .. and this was the most exciting hockey series ever played.. I don't expect the Sedin's to do a Bobby Clarke but it would be great if they played a tougher game..

It was the most exciting series because of the context, not the actual hockey.
--
I'm not sure what a "tougher" game would entail. We should have some guys willing to play it a bit tougher, but to put that on your 2 best players isn't all that bright.

[dhabums]

Personally I think I am seeing a tad more aggression from the brothers..I would just fucking love It If one of them fought and held thier own or won....can you Imagine how the other player would ne ridiculed?..lmfao

Sedin vs Bolland, right off the puck drop. Bolland has zero career fights and likely wouldn't know what to do either.

[Benjo]

Personally I think I am seeing a tad more aggression from the brothers..I would just fucking love It If one of them fought and held thier own or won....can you Imagine how the other player would ne ridiculed?..lmfao

Sedin vs Bolland, right off the puck drop. Bolland has zero career fights and likely wouldn't know what to do either.

And Bolland goes to the box with a big smile on his face because he just took out a Sedin for 5 minutes and the media has a field day saying the Sedins are frustrated and Dave Bolland is amazing.