GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:43 am

Carlyee wrote:Does anyone else feel like we were getting bullied by a pretty soft Wings squad?



Seriously?

Anyway, given the circumstances we were going to need a little puck luck to beat the Wings. The Hodgson no-goal with 0.1 second on the clock and the burrows miss off the bar would have changed the game. Oh well, team isnt playing well but the rest of the schedule this month is far easier.

-Hodgson with another excellent game, once again very unlucky not to pick up a couple of points. Probably had close to 10 scoring chances and another solid defensive game.

-Sedins were our best line as usual but still not their best game. Datsuk is a very tough match up for them, he's just as strong on the puck but far quicker. Next time we play AV will hopefully push a match up with Kesler.

-Bieksa is starting to remind me of the player we saw after he signed his previous contract, hopefully it's just a slow start.

-Sammy and Sturn are a fairly major defensive liability, I realise both had surgery this off season and are behind, but they are just killing us right now.

-Unfortunately we just have too many guys who are either off their game or behind due to surgery. Sammy, Manny, Sturm, Bieksa, Edler, Lu, and Hansen, have all been sub par and when half your team isn't playing well it is very hard to win consistently.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby ODB » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:16 am

Potatoe1 wrote:-Unfortunately we just have too many guys who are either off their game or behind due to surgery. Sammy, Manny, Sturm, Bieksa, Edler, Lu, and Hansen, have all been sub par and when half your team isn't playing well it is very hard to win consistently.


Off his game is putting it mildly!

Luongo is just 0-1-1 with a .855 SP% and 3.89 GAA. He has only stopped 48-of-55 shots and is 0-for-3 in the shootout (shots).

Yuck! :(

These slow starts are getting boring!
BTW, NOT A FLAME ... JUST AN OBSERVATION ... :P
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby dbr » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:33 am

ODB wrote:Bieksa looked really ordinary last night. When he's on his game he looks great. When he's off he looks lazy!

Sometimes you wonder if he really gives a shit?


I agree.. but he looks ten times worse when he is trying to do too much - if KB3 is going to have an off night I'd almost rather have him check out.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Meds » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:36 am

ODB wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:-Unfortunately we just have too many guys who are either off their game or behind due to surgery. Sammy, Manny, Sturm, Bieksa, Edler, Lu, and Hansen, have all been sub par and when half your team isn't playing well it is very hard to win consistently.



These slow starts are getting boring!


When a relatively inexperienced youngster named Cody Hodgson is your 4th best forward after not being able to crack the lineup since being drafted the team has some issues that need addressing.

GMMG seriously took a step back in the ratings department this off-season with his only major signing being Sturm.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby KeyserSoze » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:04 am

ODB wrote:These slow starts are getting boring!

You might even call them sluggish

...grippingly sluggish
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby ODB » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:22 am

dbr wrote:
ODB wrote:Bieksa looked really ordinary last night. When he's on his game he looks great. When he's off he looks lazy!

Sometimes you wonder if he really gives a shit?


I agree.. but he looks ten times worse when he is trying to do too much - if KB3 is going to have an off night I'd almost rather have him check out.

FWIW, not that I really care BUT, had GMMG called Ohdee and asked what would you do.... I would have kept the Hoff and let KB3 walk. Ehrhoff's offensive game was/is money in the bank. KB3 is a roll of the dice. He had a great playoff but everyone knows he was the one going until Salo went down last summer. KB4 was going to replace KB3! I say Gillis kept the wrong player. But perhaps GMMG had no choice? maybe Ehrhoff wanted out? Who knows???

Ok, that was a pointless post and I know it!
BTW, NOT A FLAME ... JUST AN OBSERVATION ... :P
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby tantalum » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:11 am

Just going to copy my post from another board.
-------------------------
So far in this EARLY season this is what I see:

Up front....

Good efforts shift after shift: Daniel, Henrik, Burrows, Higgins and Hodgson

Passengers: LaPierre, Samuelsson, Sturm, Hansen (yes Hansen, his play has been uninspired and not at all the Hansen we witnessed last year)

The expected to not do anything anyways: Volpatti, Ebbett

Cutting some slack: Malhotra (has been great on faceoffs which is his one main area of importance). Also cutting Sturm some slack as a handful of games may not be enough to figure it all out on this team. Weise as well as he is new...I've seen some things in his play I like.

Obviously missing: Kesler and Raymond. yes Raymond. He kills offensive forays we all know this. However, he is second to maybe only Kesler on his back checking tenaciousness and speed through the neutral zone. Raymond's defensive play along the boards and speed are very much missed.

You don't beat good teams with 5 forwards putting forth the necessary effort.

On the blueline...

The good effort and good play: Hamhuis

Good effort but somewhat inconsistent: Ballard

Extremely inconsistent and casual efforts: Edler, Casual Kev

Undecided: Salo

Cut some slack: Tanev for obvious reasons.

goaltending....
Schneider has been reasonable and was good last night. Luongo not so much.

In short, many players need to pull their socks up in a hurry or we might be seeing a David Booth added to the team...not that it would be a bad thing.
---------------

More on Hodgson. Kid is playing very well. The only issue I have seen from him so far is that his acceleration is still suspect and if he gets standing still he is in trouble. However, overall he has become an average NHl skater since his back healed and with the work he put in this summer. Another couple of years of good health and I suspect he won't have any skating issues. He is very smart with the puck and it's too bad he's been playing with guys who are acting like they are dumber than tree stumps. Above all I can't remember the last time I saw a young canuck make a little move and come off the side boards and get the puck to the net or create a scoring chance so effectively. The last couple of games he has almost exploded off that side board 4 or 5 times. That bodes well for the PP I think.

I don't want to get ahead of myself on Hodgson but I really like what he has brought so far. Thus far he is showing the coaching staff he can be counted on for quality minutes. Nice to see and let's hope it continues into games 20, 30, 40, 50 and beyond.

I don't like jumping on the blame Luongo bandwagon but I can't help but wonder what sort of flexibility the canucks would have if they moved him instead of Schneider. Luongo back to Florida? I know it's Schneider that will be going.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby coco_canuck » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:19 am

The Canucks are still trying to find consistency in the regular season pace of play, while the Wings were able to elevate their game to another level in the 2nd period, leaving the Canucks behind. Until Vancouver regains some cohesiveness and begins dictating the pace, they will be unable to keep up with the likes of Detroit when they step up their game.

Too many defensive breakdowns coupled with impatience from the d-men made for some ugly play in the Vancouver zone. The defense seems too worried about not making a mistake and getting the puck out as quickly as possible that they're making bad reads, getting caught out of position and turning the puck over or putting it in low-percentage areas. The Canucks offense relies on good, decisive tape-to-tape puck movement coming out of their own zone that leads to a quick transition game that opens up the neutral zone. When the defense isn't at its best, the Canucks offense stagnates, and that's what's been happening in the first four games.

The defense's inability to help the offense does not excuse the forwards who are not doing a good enough job supporting the defense and getting in good positions to receive outlet passes. You often hear the Canucks talk about playing as tight, 5-man units, and that hasn't been happening enough. There's too much space between the players on the ice, which limits available passing lanes and puck support.

Last year it took the Canucks some time before they found that cohesivness and chemistry that catapulted them through the regular season, and although there wasn't as much turnover on the roster this year, it seems like it will take some time before this team settles in.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:45 am

ODB wrote:FWIW, not that I really care BUT, had GMMG called Ohdee and asked what would you do.... I would have kept the Hoff and let KB3 walk.



I would have kepth Both Bieksa and Hoff and dumped Ballard.

It really is very surprising to me that GMMG gave Ballard another chance after his coaches wouldnt dress him in the final.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Meds » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:57 pm

coco_canuck wrote:There's too much space between the players on the ice, which limits available passing lanes and puck support.


I've often found that the Canucks could use that space to really generate some more offense and be a threat in more ways than just the cute board play and give-and-go's. I hate watching the Sedin's when they start their phonebooth passing plays that allow defenders to smother them without surrendering a real passing lane to a scoring threat. The Wing's were often more spread out then we were last night once in the offensive zone, and their player movement away from the puck was much better. The only line that really excelled last night with the short range, in close passing and attack was Detroit's top line, and that is only because Datsyuk has amazing hands that are combined with quick feet. Hank and Dank have great hands too, but aren't as quick and shifty as Datsyuk.

I'm also sick of this team overloading the RW side of the and having next to zero weak side support. We are simply never there to put in the backdoor play, the far side rebound off the goalie or rear boards. For a team that prides itself on having the defense jump up into the offense, we really need to get our weak-side point man to activate when a shot is coming from the half-boards on the overloaded side. It's a pretty simple system.....

(Running from the RW)
L-side pointman heads up the LW towards the L-faceoff dot as the shooter loads up. This puts him in position for a rebound or close enough to stop the puck if it rounds up the boards towards the point and out.

R-side dman slides over to middle of ice as the shooter lets go of the shot off the wing.

Shooter drops back ready to play defense and prevent a 2-on-1 if the puck turns over.

R-corner forward heads to the R-side of the net.

Slot player maintains position for rebound or net crashing.

Bases are covered and you just set yourself up to score from 3 positions off the rebound following a shot, and have allowed for multiple passing opportunities as well as the option of setting back up as the R-dman can now slide to the L-point and the original trigger man can cover on the R-point until the team can cycle again.

Of course Vigneault & Co. seem to prefer the option that lets the puck go all the way back to the far point or be picked up by the weakside winger.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:20 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:

I would have kepth Both Bieksa and Hoff and dumped Ballard.

It really is very surprising to me that GMMG gave Ballard another chance after his coaches wouldnt dress him in the final.


Great idea in theory..... but nobody would have bit on Ballard's contract this summer not at 4.2 for four more seasons when dude can only play one side effectively and was basically hammered to a pulp by the Canucks coaching staff last season. Vancouver would have had to eat another high salary coming back if they wanjted to dump KB4.

As for Ehrhoff with the coin he managed to get over that 10 year term i doubt whether he would have signed here for anything less that 6.5 million per over a five to 6 year deal. Considering this team is hitched to Luongo, the twins, Kesler, Bieksa and Hamhuis for 32 million for the forseeable future another 6.5 invested in the German handicaps the squad. Add in the 3- 5 million dollars they'd have to pay the scrub in the Ballard deal and they are well over 40 million on 8 players with Edler looking for a long term deal in 2013. It wouldn't have worked.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Strangelove » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:32 pm

Ehrhoff = overrated.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Listercat » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:17 pm

The D men IMHO are getting hamstrung by forwards vacating the zone early.(gap) Compared to the Wings exit from their zone in last nights game. The Wings come out as a 5 man unit and the puck gets moved to the head man. The Canucks often end up with 1 or 2 forwards stopped at the opposition blue line while the puck carrier comes up ice. This really limits options for an entry with possession. Most often the puck goes to a stationary player at the line who with no momentum has to make a cross ice pass or drive it around to the other side and hope the winger on that side can gain possession. The only other option is for the puck carrier to shoot it in and because he is the only one skating he has to lead the forecheck. More often than not this leads to a loss of possession.

The Canucks are built around speed but they need to utilize that asset better. The puck travels faster than anyone can skate as every coach will tell you.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby Potatoe1 » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:34 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:

I would have kepth Both Bieksa and Hoff and dumped Ballard.

It really is very surprising to me that GMMG gave Ballard another chance after his coaches wouldnt dress him in the final.


Great idea in theory..... but nobody would have bit on Ballard's contract this summer not at 4.2 for four more seasons when dude can only play one side effectively and was basically hammered to a pulp by the Canucks coaching staff last season. Vancouver would have had to eat another high salary coming back if they wanjted to dump KB4.

As for Ehrhoff with the coin he managed to get over that 10 year term i doubt whether he would have signed here for anything less that 6.5 million per over a five to 6 year deal. Considering this team is hitched to Luongo, the twins, Kesler, Bieksa and Hamhuis for 32 million for the forseeable future another 6.5 invested in the German handicaps the squad. Add in the 3- 5 million dollars they'd have to pay the scrub in the Ballard deal and they are well over 40 million on 8 players with Edler looking for a long term deal in 2013. It wouldn't have worked.


Erhoff was apparently asking for 5 to 5.5 before july 1, (according to HW and several media sources).

And I think Ballard was still movable this summer, especially if we were willing to take some salary back.
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Re: GDT: Canucks @ Detroit 10/13 - 5pm - Snet

Postby darren » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:31 am

ODB wrote:FWIW, not that I really care BUT, had GMMG called Ohdee and asked what would you do.... I would have kept the Hoff and let KB3 walk.


I recall reading that GMMG did offer the Hoff the same contract as Bieksa, but he turned it down? Not sure if that's true or not. If you have both the Hoff and Kev, you get rid of Ballard (trade, or waive/minors. Aqualini is rolling in money and doesn't seem afraid to spend it, so burying Ballard seemingly wouldn't be a problem).

I'm a little tired of certain people posting that we could have kept the Hoff for a 4m cap hit (ie his Buffalo contract). That would have necessitated signing the Hoff until he is 38 years old. How many 38 year old NHL defensemen are there who are still worth a 4m cap hit (and aren't named Nik Lidstrom)?

GMMG decided he didn't want the Hoff if those were the terms, and there wasn't anything else in the FA market that was better than a (hopefully) rejuvenated Ballard. I think he was right.
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