GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Robert » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:20 pm

Jelly wrote:
Robert wrote:
Jelly wrote:
For christ sake, do you not see the game on TV?

Ray Ferraro, who sat right IN THE MIDDLE of the action, called it. The Refs were going to even up the penalties, and as they were discussing, SOB did his thing and gave the Refs a reason NOT to even it up.


Um well yes I did. I don't care what Ray said, he must have been surmising. The only penalty was to Kesler. No way did the refs decide to give kesler a penalty AFTER the fact of O'brien's poke. Anyways it's no big deal and neither was the poke at the bench.

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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Jelly » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:58 pm

There wasn't a penalty other then the misconduct because a bench minor would give the Rangers a PP anyways, and they were just about to even them up.


If you don't care what the guy that's sitting in the middle of it says, then really, who's the biased one?
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby JCardinal » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:21 pm

Jelly wrote: who's the biased one?


Judging by my 12+ years online in message boards of one kind or another and going back a decade before that to dial up bulletin board systems I'd have to say the answer to that is easy: every person on earth. ;)
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Badfish » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:32 pm

Jelly has some serious hate for a guy with such a lighthearted name. 10 posts between 9:30 and 1am of OBrien bashing? You need a new hobby! ;) no offense

I agree with Trouble:
SOB is one of the most popular players on the team.. His teammates love him..
There is so much that we don't see that is so important to winning hockey..


OBrien's here for a reason. As was said, who's on our team that's a real intimidating physical threat? Ryp, Bxa, Hordi maybe (when he plays) and now Glass, thats about it. I mean intimidating physical presence. Naming Raymond as a better aggitator is simply ridiculous and knowing how much you watch the games, I really don't see how you can honestly think that Jelly. Few too many road pops on the way home or something? Kesler, Burr, Bernier, etc are good aggitators but are by no means intimidating. Just try to tell me that having Burrows come after you is as intimidating as OBrien.

Without OBrien the only guy other teams would have to look out for on the ice when our 4th line isn't out there is BXA. Having Shane gives us at least 2 D pairings with some toughness. Try sending Edler and Salo out on a shift like that one and see how well that goes. As for BXA, it's games like this remind me why I love this kid. Sure he's no Lidstrom but he's got fire that teams love and need. Seeing him tear through the crowd to get to Keslers defense as Kes was being mauled by 5 guys got me out of my seat, the look in his eyes was exactly what this team is about. Shane brings that same fire, and yes both are prone to bad penalties, but you take the good with the bad IMHO.
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:10 pm

BINGO BADFISH!

So Kesler's penalty is a result of O'Brien's stick poke? Why not just give O'Brien the penalty? LOL.

I'm not sure what the SOB bashers expect out of the guy, but he's paid to be our 6/7 guy. He's still very intimidating out there, and I don't think he's not fighting for a lack of trying. He's very aggressive and he's not hurting us in his own zone. I don't care that he's not playing against the top pairing, that's not his job. His job is to play well against the bottom half of the other teams' rosters. He's doing that = he's doing his job.

I look at it this way... if Schnieder is out there with Edler, or Salo, how many guys do you think might take liberties with a soon-to-be senior? Me thinks they might think twice when they know O'Brien will cross check their teeth in. The guy brings that presence to this team.

Also, Lukowich makes LESS than O'Brien, so what does that tell you? There is no cap situation there, SOB played well enough to get a spot on the roster, and is in the teams' plans moving forward.

If you guys are really looking for a whipping boy, look for someone who is EXPECTED to produce like Edler, Wellwood, Salo or even Burrows. Don't pick on a guy who is supposed to play a simple, hard nosed responsible game for doing just that.
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby LotusBlossom » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:21 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:BINGO BADFISH!



If you guys are really looking for a whipping boy, look for someone who is EXPECTED to produce like Edler, Wellwood, Salo or even Burrows. Don't pick on a guy who is supposed to play a simple, hard nosed responsible game for doing just that.


you honestly think O'brien plays a responsible game? LOL OK ...please explain...from what I saw last year and his PIMs and his antics on ice, I'd hardly call that responsible...but to each their own. I will not relent on O'brien until he can prove that he is more responsible. He had to be held back by teammates last night. If he wasn't restrained ...I highly doubt he would have been 'responsible'.
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:11 pm

LotusBlossom wrote:you honestly think O'brien plays a responsible game? LOL OK ...please explain...from what I saw last year and his PIMs and his antics on ice, I'd hardly call that responsible...but to each their own. I will not relent on O'brien until he can prove that he is more responsible. He had to be held back by teammates last night. If he wasn't restrained ...I highly doubt he would have been 'responsible'.


I think O'Brien has made great strides in his own zone this season. He still takes the odd penalty chasing a hit, but I don't know if anyone realizes that he's expected to be aggressive. If he played passively, he wouldn't be in the league. People here seem to have misguided and downright unrealistic expectations for this guy. He's going to get penalties, some will be deserved, some will be reputation calls, and some (4-min high stick) can happen to anyone. He's not going to be a point-producer, but he will be stable against suitable opposition, and provide safety to his teammates. My point is only that I think Shane is fitting right into his role on the roster.

Giving Avery the stick: Good for Shane. THAT type of play is what he is paid to do. Get in a guys face, call him out and make the mouthpiece back up his words or shut up. Had that penalized us, I might be more inclined to agree with you. That play didn't hurt us at all. It hurt Shane personally, I'm okay with that. He didn't put the team in a detrimental situation.
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby nucklehead_88 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:43 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
LotusBlossom wrote:you honestly think O'brien plays a responsible game? LOL OK ...please explain...from what I saw last year and his PIMs and his antics on ice, I'd hardly call that responsible...but to each their own. I will not relent on O'brien until he can prove that he is more responsible. He had to be held back by teammates last night. If he wasn't restrained ...I highly doubt he would have been 'responsible'.


I think O'Brien has made great strides in his own zone this season. He still takes the odd penalty chasing a hit, but I don't know if anyone realizes that he's expected to be aggressive. If he played passively, he wouldn't be in the league. People here seem to have misguided and downright unrealistic expectations for this guy. He's going to get penalties, some will be deserved, some will be reputation calls, and some (4-min high stick) can happen to anyone. He's not going to be a point-producer, but he will be stable against suitable opposition, and provide safety to his teammates. My point is only that I think Shane is fitting right into his role on the roster.

Giving Avery the stick: Good for Shane. THAT type of play is what he is paid to do. Get in a guys face, call him out and make the mouthpiece back up his words or shut up. Had that penalized us, I might be more inclined to agree with you. That play didn't hurt us at all. It hurt Shane personally, I'm okay with that. He didn't put the team in a detrimental situation.



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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby LotusBlossom » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:19 pm

nucklehead_88 wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
LotusBlossom wrote:you honestly think O'brien plays a responsible game? LOL OK ...please explain...from what I saw last year and his PIMs and his antics on ice, I'd hardly call that responsible...but to each their own. I will not relent on O'brien until he can prove that he is more responsible. He had to be held back by teammates last night. If he wasn't restrained ...I highly doubt he would have been 'responsible'.


I think O'Brien has made great strides in his own zone this season. He still takes the odd penalty chasing a hit, but I don't know if anyone realizes that he's expected to be aggressive. If he played passively, he wouldn't be in the league. People here seem to have misguided and downright unrealistic expectations for this guy. He's going to get penalties, some will be deserved, some will be reputation calls, and some (4-min high stick) can happen to anyone. He's not going to be a point-producer, but he will be stable against suitable opposition, and provide safety to his teammates. My point is only that I think Shane is fitting right into his role on the roster.

Giving Avery the stick: Good for Shane. THAT type of play is what he is paid to do. Get in a guys face, call him out and make the mouthpiece back up his words or shut up. Had that penalized us, I might be more inclined to agree with you. That play didn't hurt us at all. It hurt Shane personally, I'm okay with that. He didn't put the team in a detrimental situation.



AMEN BROTHER!!!!!



Let me tell you something....brother *wink* :p ....please re-count how many times that son of a bitch (hehe) put us in trouble last year and cost us goals because of his stupid ass shenanigans on the ice. Yes I even enjoyed his jab at Avery, because if anyone in the league deserves it, it's him, but again, until SOB proves to me (not you not your baby mommy or anyone else for that matter) but me...I have the right to my opinion on his actions and his untimely penalties.

I admit he has been better this year, but it's a long year, and I hope it continues more. Maybe a night in the press box showed him when to behave and misbehave, but I'll reserve a change of opinion until I see more improvement. Yeah there are other components to hockey, for sure, even me, little LB has played a few times with the boys and knows all about roughing penalties etc etc. Thing is, it has been more often than not that O'Brien has taken untimely penalties that have put the Nucks in 'peril' (please don't label me the female Farhan) . So with over 60 games to go..lol I'll keep my opinion and we can agree to disagree.

I got Jelly's back on this one... if we were so inclined to taking sides :)
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Jelly » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:55 pm

Badfish wrote:Jelly has some serious hate for a guy with such a lighthearted name. 10 posts between 9:30 and 1am of OBrien bashing? You need a new hobby! ;) no offense

I agree with Trouble:
SOB is one of the most popular players on the team.. His teammates love him..
There is so much that we don't see that is so important to winning hockey..


OBrien's here for a reason. As was said, who's on our team that's a real intimidating physical threat? Ryp, Bxa, Hordi maybe (when he plays) and now Glass, thats about it. I mean intimidating physical presence. Naming Raymond as a better aggitator is simply ridiculous and knowing how much you watch the games, I really don't see how you can honestly think that Jelly. Few too many road pops on the way home or something? Kesler, Burr, Bernier, etc are good aggitators but are by no means intimidating. Just try to tell me that having Burrows come after you is as intimidating as OBrien.

Without OBrien the only guy other teams would have to look out for on the ice when our 4th line isn't out there is BXA. Having Shane gives us at least 2 D pairings with some toughness. Try sending Edler and Salo out on a shift like that one and see how well that goes. As for BXA, it's games like this remind me why I love this kid. Sure he's no Lidstrom but he's got fire that teams love and need. Seeing him tear through the crowd to get to Keslers defense as Kes was being mauled by 5 guys got me out of my seat, the look in his eyes was exactly what this team is about. Shane brings that same fire, and yes both are prone to bad penalties, but you take the good with the bad IMHO.


I believe you and others mistake agitation and toughness. People can agitate and cause the opposing team to take bad penalties, Kesler, Raymond are amongst the tops in terms of drawing penalties, and Burrows is exceptionally well at taking other team's top players off their game. What SOB does, is the exact opposite, he takes bad penalties. Intimidation only goes so far when you don't back it up with anything, Bieksa last night basically told the world that to get one of our star players, your gonna have to go through him, THAT, is toughness, intimidation and agitation all roll into a perfect form IMO. None of the crap with poking your stick across the benches, that's pussy shit, SOB could have easily jumped off the bench and jumped in, but he didn't even try. Hordichuk was going to, but AV held him back.
SOB brings no fire, all he has done every time he plays is take bad penalties at bad times, screwing our momentum, maybe try a little cute move and spin around the forechecker, which if he lost the puck like he did last season, would be a break away for the forechecker.
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby trouble » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:06 pm

Jelly wrote:
Badfish wrote:Jelly has some serious hate for a guy with such a lighthearted name. 10 posts between 9:30 and 1am of OBrien bashing? You need a new hobby! ;) no offense

I agree with Trouble:
SOB is one of the most popular players on the team.. His teammates love him..
There is so much that we don't see that is so important to winning hockey..


OBrien's here for a reason. As was said, who's on our team that's a real intimidating physical threat? Ryp, Bxa, Hordi maybe (when he plays) and now Glass, thats about it. I mean intimidating physical presence. Naming Raymond as a better aggitator is simply ridiculous and knowing how much you watch the games, I really don't see how you can honestly think that Jelly. Few too many road pops on the way home or something? Kesler, Burr, Bernier, etc are good aggitators but are by no means intimidating. Just try to tell me that having Burrows come after you is as intimidating as OBrien.

Without OBrien the only guy other teams would have to look out for on the ice when our 4th line isn't out there is BXA. Having Shane gives us at least 2 D pairings with some toughness. Try sending Edler and Salo out on a shift like that one and see how well that goes. As for BXA, it's games like this remind me why I love this kid. Sure he's no Lidstrom but he's got fire that teams love and need. Seeing him tear through the crowd to get to Keslers defense as Kes was being mauled by 5 guys got me out of my seat, the look in his eyes was exactly what this team is about. Shane brings that same fire, and yes both are prone to bad penalties, but you take the good with the bad IMHO.


I believe you and others mistake agitation and toughness. People can agitate and cause the opposing team to take bad penalties, Kesler, Raymond are amongst the tops in terms of drawing penalties, and Burrows is exceptionally well at taking other team's top players off their game. What SOB does, is the exact opposite, he takes bad penalties. Intimidation only goes so far when you don't back it up with anything, Bieksa last night basically told the world that to get one of our star players, your gonna have to go through him, THAT, is toughness, intimidation and agitation all roll into a perfect form IMO. None of the crap with poking your stick across the benches, that's pussy shit, SOB could have easily jumped off the bench and jumped in, but he didn't even try. Hordichuk was going to, but AV held him back.
SOB brings no fire, all he has done every time he plays is take bad penalties at bad times, screwing our momentum, maybe try a little cute move and spin around the forechecker, which if he lost the puck like he did last season, would be a break away for the forechecker.


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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Jelly » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:08 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
LotusBlossom wrote:you honestly think O'brien plays a responsible game? LOL OK ...please explain...from what I saw last year and his PIMs and his antics on ice, I'd hardly call that responsible...but to each their own. I will not relent on O'brien until he can prove that he is more responsible. He had to be held back by teammates last night. If he wasn't restrained ...I highly doubt he would have been 'responsible'.


I think O'Brien has made great strides in his own zone this season. He still takes the odd penalty chasing a hit, but I don't know if anyone realizes that he's expected to be aggressive. If he played passively, he wouldn't be in the league. People here seem to have misguided and downright unrealistic expectations for this guy. He's going to get penalties, some will be deserved, some will be reputation calls, and some (4-min high stick) can happen to anyone. He's not going to be a point-producer, but he will be stable against suitable opposition, and provide safety to his teammates. My point is only that I think Shane is fitting right into his role on the roster.

Giving Avery the stick: Good for Shane. THAT type of play is what he is paid to do. Get in a guys face, call him out and make the mouthpiece back up his words or shut up. Had that penalized us, I might be more inclined to agree with you. That play didn't hurt us at all. It hurt Shane personally, I'm okay with that. He didn't put the team in a detrimental situation.



Times SOB dropped the gloves : 0
Times SOB went to the need of a teammate : 0
Times SOB takes a stupid penalty : Once per game played.

FACT : SOB did take a penalty on the poke. 10 minute misconduct, this'll be the last time I'll say this. The Referees was going to even up the penalties and get someone from the Rangers bench in the box, SOB did his stupid stunt, and the Refs had no choice but to NOT even up the penalties and let the Canucks take a 2minute PK. There was very little point in getting more bodies into the penalty box, when all they have to do is let the PK stand.

I don't know what you consider as toughness, but poking your stick at an opponent on the bench sure isn't. If we pay him for that crap, we might as well hire some guy to sit behind the visitor's bench and dump hot oil on them. SOB is payed to play a simple defensive game, throw hits when there's a chance, and fight. Right now, he has done none. He tries to be Neidermayer when he has the puck, he chases and pinches badly just to throw a hit so he can get a 2 minute break, and he hasn't fought anyone.

Don't type out BS like other team's players got intimidated, when you have Rypien taking on Hal Gill and other really freaking tough mofos, SOB hasn't done anything.

The minute he gets afraid of penalized for starting a fight, is the minute that he is considered worthless to the organization. There were many times in our losses that a fight sure would hold the momentum and maybe give our guys some jump, but he, along with Hordichuk, and Rypien when he's not injuried, haven't done any of that this season.

Who gives a crap if the other guy doesn't want to go, you jump him and he will drop the gloves, and the numbers show that the Refs have called about 50% less instigator penalties this season and last season, VS the first two out of the lock out. TSN showed that.
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:58 pm

Jelly wrote:
Times SOB dropped the gloves : 0
Times SOB went to the need of a teammate : 0
Times SOB takes a stupid penalty : Once per game played.


How many times has he been challenged? Not many from what I've seen.

FACT : SOB did take a penalty on the poke. 10 minute misconduct, this'll be the last time I'll say this. The Referees was going to even up the penalties and get someone from the Rangers bench in the box, SOB did his stupid stunt, and the Refs had no choice but to NOT even up the penalties and let the Canucks take a 2minute PK. There was very little point in getting more bodies into the penalty box, when all they have to do is let the PK stand.


OR they could call what they saw. You're going by what Ray Ferraro was saying, and frankly Ray was all on the Ranger dick that game. Kesler penalized the team. O'Brien penalized himself. If what you're saying is remotely true, then that is on the refereeing. In terms of O'Brien, the dime was the correct call.

SOB is payed to play a simple defensive game, throw hits when there's a chance, and fight. Right now, he has done none.


Right, so the guy that is tied for 3rd in +/- on the team is a complete retard in his own end? He IS playing a simple defensive game. Certainly much better than last year. O'Brien is fourth on the team in hits. He's second (BXA) on the back end, while being 7th in d-man minutes/game. Bieksa, Ehrhoff, Edler and Salo all have more giveaways per game.

As a team, the Canucks have 11 fights... the NHL lead is 13. When guys like Rypien and Glass are willing to go every other game, why does O'Brien have to go looking? We have a true heavyweight (Hordi) and the best middleweight (Rypien) and a guy that really wants to prove himself (Glass). I'm sure we'll see SOB drop the gloves at some point, but he doesn't need to fight to be effective. He just needs to be ABLE to fight if needed.

The minute he gets afraid of penalized for starting a fight, is the minute that he is considered worthless to the organization. There were many times in our losses that a fight sure would hold the momentum and maybe give our guys some jump, but he, along with Hordichuk, and Rypien when he's not injuried, haven't done any of that this season.

Who gives a crap if the other guy doesn't want to go, you jump him and he will drop the gloves, and the numbers show that the Refs have called about 50% less instigator penalties this season and last season, VS the first two out of the lock out. TSN showed that.


I would agree, Jelly... but I wouldn't want your head to explode from the sheer frustration of watching Shane "I'm a Completely Useless Tool" O'Brien take yet another penalty, even if it is an instigator. :roll:
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby dr.dork » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:41 pm

Jelly wrote:who's the biased one?


You. You're so biased against Shane O'Brien that you can't admit he has improved since last year and has improved since the preseason.

Nobody is saying he is a good number 1, he is a good number 6 or number 7.
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Re: GDT: Rangers visit Canucks, 7:00 PM, TSN, 1040

Postby Mikodat » Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:04 pm

Jelly said:
Who gives a crap if the other guy doesn't want to go, you jump him and he will drop the gloves

No, he won't. He is more likely to turn from it or do a Cooke and turn turtle.. The job of the agitator ( Burrows.. Ruutu etc ) is to piss opponents off to make them take penalties.. Raymond is not an agitator his speed forces dmen to take hooking or holding penalties.. not his mouth.. SOB called Avery ( the agitator ) out while he poked him with his stick.. Avery grabbed the stick , making sure that SOB took the penalty and stayed away from him after SOB served his 10 misconduct . Raymonds role is completely different than either Burrows or SOB.. he is not tough... not an agitator... SOB is a tough but slow Dman and is much less likely to be out of position as he rarely joins the rush . Edler is a pussy and will never fight and is quite often out of position.. Bieksa is more liable to be out of position because of poor decisions than SOB.. but is tough and will fight. Mitchell and Salo are our 2 top dmen one a defensive tough dman the other a top offensive dman.. Since losing Ohlund we don't really have a top 2 way dman. Erhoff is ahead of either Bieksa or Edler. Now we got a 40 year old dman to quarterback the power play... but is a defensive liability.. each have different roles to play and AV's job is to get the most out of them.. including the toughness of SOB.. who is still young enough to develop into a top 4 man.
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