GDT 1/29/2008 Canucks vs Stars 7pm TV: SNET (HD), Radio 1040

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Postby mattola » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:59 pm

to quote AV on last nights game

"If If If If If If "

Bottom line is we lost the game.

thank you all....
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Postby sic puppy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:14 pm

Yeah, Matty, "IF' is a very handy term in most sports.

But, as you mentioned, the bottom line was a loss. Just as when they win, the bottom line is a win - no matter how ugly it is.

I just did a quick check over the last few years. And, guess what ? No team (including those dunder head Nux) has gone through a season undefeated.

I guarantee that over the years, there have been any number of games just like this one. Does anybody remember them as standing out over any other ?
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Postby mattola » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:18 pm

sic puppy wrote:I just did a quick check over the last few years. And, guess what ? No team (including those dunder head Nux) has gone through a season undefeated.
?


I think you missing the point on most of the fans that are pissed off.

its not about winning all the games or losing all the games its about the problems that have consistently plagued this team most all season.

lack of PP
lack of clutch scoring when needed most
consistent defensive breakdowns.

some fans may want to just make the playoffs but I want to go in there with a 100% consistent game. if we lose we lose. but we are not even close to what this team should be.

win or lose. we have no consistency
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Re: hit or be hit

Postby sic puppy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:28 pm

UpYerKilt wrote:Why does it seem this team gets out hit at home? Every team comes in to this building and pushes the Canucks around. The hitters on the team are the 5-10 mins a game players. We need top 2 forwards banging like the Flames and Ducks.

Guts


Not just at home. Altho' this stat is difficult to "judge" (trying to figure out what constitutes a hit by those officials charged with this stat) the Nux are out hit most nights.

Strangely enough, the Nux have out hit (overall) the Oil, the Wings, the Yotes & the Sharks in games to date.

Surprising to me with the defensive style they play.

Like you, I would like to see a winger who will give time & space to some of the finesse players on the team. For all his warts in his last few years on the team, Bertuzzi provided that element that doesn't get enough recognition, IMO.
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Postby sic puppy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:39 pm

mattola wrote: I think you missing the point on most of the fans that are pissed off.


And what I hear is whining. Don't take it personally.

I frequent this site on a regular basis. The team looses. Read some of the posts. They're all the same. At the end of the season if the Nux make the playoffs, who cares about the individual losses ?

mattola wrote: its not about winning all the games or losing all the games its about the problems that have consistently plagued this team most all season.


And inspite of these problems, where are they in the standings ? Not to say that Management turns a blind eye to their latest streak, but what solutions do you have that AV and crew haven't tried ?

It was noted many times that the cap era has hamstrung most teams. Trades are not as prevelent as they once were. Couple that with the injuries (while many won't use this excuse - I will because of the severity) and Nonis is further hampered in making a trade because of their apparent desparation.

mattola wrote: win or lose. we have no consistency


Certainly no where near where they were in terms of after Xmas last year. That was a very confident team in any game situation - certainly in one goal games. This year they haven't shown that as yet. Again I would point to injuries to their D for alot of that confidence.
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Postby mattola » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:56 pm

sic puppy wrote:
mattola wrote: I think you missing the point on most of the fans that are pissed off.


And what I hear is whining. Don't take it personally.

I frequent this site on a regular basis. The team looses. Read some of the posts. They're all the same. At the end of the season if the Nux make the playoffs, who cares about the individual losses ?


Im not whining and I think I can say with confidence I dont do this after every loss. its losses like this that piss me off the most. Im not going to be one of those fans that brags about every win and disappears after losses and I wont be one of those fans just happy to make the playoffs if we get blown out by Detroit 4 straight because we didnt learn a thing from these losses. and with the way this team plays we will get blown out 4 straight against them. we have to remember as well as the other potential teams we may play against if the make the playoffs.

0-4 against the Sharks (those games were not even close)
0-2-1 against the Wings (while these games are a little closer we are still not in the same league as this team)
We have been decent against the Ducks this year but that is without Neids and Selanne. now they are back and well see how we compete.

these are the teams to beat to make it far and Im thinking that depending 100% on Luongo is not the option. we did that last year and won 1 round (you can debate if Zubov was in Game 7 if that happens but I still think we win that game) and he played valiantly against the Ducks. Bottom line is that all the best players must play their best and the role players play above what is expected. We have the Sedins, Kesler, Luongo and perhaps Miller (small joke but hes been our healthiest player), Pyatt is really coming too but past that the players are lacking

I agree with your thoughts on trades and injuries.
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Postby sic puppy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:27 pm

mattola wrote: Im not whining


Hence my comment about not taking it personally. I was referring to "pissed off fans".

mattola wrote: its losses like this that piss me off the most.


So what was different than other losses ? Sometimes you have to give credit to the opposition. Turco outplayed the Nuc goaltenders. He made the big saves that could have resulted in Nux fans saying "if Turco" makes that save....

Your comments about our play versus other teams this year.....Interesting. IMO the Nux aren't at that level as a team, yet. Yes, we have Luongo, but he can't be expected to be the go to guy for 82 games. Or for the 60 games that he actually plays for that matter.

Secondary scoring has been an issue since before Luongo got here and some would say even in the WCE era and the twins "weren't the answer".

mattola wrote: Bottom line is that all the best players must play their best and the role players play above what is expected.


No question. But, is it reasonable to expect this every game ? Effort every game for sure. But not possible to have a positive result (ie a win and points).

I'm of the opinion the Nux as a team get a mulligan until they are healthy or they are in a definite tail spin that looks to knock them out of the playoff run. At this point where a point streak moves them from 3 to 10 in the division, it's too early to get too excited about their play of late given the previously mentioned adversity.
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Postby sic puppy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:40 pm

As a side note. You list 3 items that you identify as problems with consistency.

mattola wrote:its not about winning all the games or losing all the games its about the problems that have consistently plagued this team most all season.

lack of PP
lack of clutch scoring when needed most
consistent defensive breakdowns.


One could argue that these all point to the injuries on D.

How many times last year did BXA or Salo contribute to the PP, whether a break out pass or a shot on the net that created a rebound or a goal.

Clutch scoring could just as easily be a PP goal at the right time. Last night with the Stars up 3-1, the Nux don't score AND give up a short handed goal.

Consistent d breakdowns. This happens when you have guys playing in unfamiliar roles or minutes. When a 5 -6 guy is asked to play top 2 or play on the PK.
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Postby mattola » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:58 pm

sic puppy wrote:As a side note. You list 3 items that you identify as problems with consistency.

mattola wrote:its not about winning all the games or losing all the games its about the problems that have consistently plagued this team most all season.

lack of PP
lack of clutch scoring when needed most
consistent defensive breakdowns.


One could argue that these all point to the injuries on D.

How many times last year did BXA or Salo contribute to the PP, whether a break out pass or a shot on the net that created a rebound or a goal.

Clutch scoring could just as easily be a PP goal at the right time. Last night with the Stars up 3-1, the Nux don't score AND give up a short handed goal.

Consistent d breakdowns. This happens when you have guys playing in unfamiliar roles or minutes. When a 5 -6 guy is asked to play top 2 or play on the PK.



fair enough.
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Postby Cookie La Rue » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:05 am

Nice discussion, Matty and Puppy. All said, nothing to add.

New game new luck in Tampa. Go Canucks Go.
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Postby Robert » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:54 am

I can't comment on the game because I didn't see it, but talking to someone on the phone she said that Canucks were playing pretty good actually; Lots of chances, but just no finish. Two very bad goals by Curtis Sanfordisnoroberto and thats all she wrote. How does this discussion go if Luongo is in net and stops those two?

Anyways, I kinda lean with sic puppy. I'm not going to make any general opinions until the whole team is healthy.
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