Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Topper » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:34 am

^ yes

I see 3-5 years of scraping by to get into the playoffs while the talent emerges to replace the Sedins on the top line.

I said when Nonis took over from Burke that his hardest task would be replacing the WCE and he did that with the surprising emergence of the Sedins. (I say surprising because I don't think anyone predicted they would be as good as they have become).

Gillis never attended to that issue though you could argue that Kesler was expected to assume the mantle. Benning has brought in hard working stop gap players in Miller and Verbata on deals that will expire as the kids come online with a vengeance.

You can see a secession plan in place and it is not far fetched. There will be deals made to add to the picture, both roster players and picks in and out. Those are the deals I see happening at the deadline as serious contenders look to add reliable depth. I look forward to seeing it unfold.
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Uncle dans leg » Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:17 pm

Topper wrote:
Calgary_Canuck wrote:We all know the Sedin's are fading, and really they have never been good playoff players.
Urban myth.

They are strong playoff performers, what they do not do is elevate their game in the playoffs. They are as consistent as they are in the regular season. In fact, a model of consistency.

Daniel
08-09, 10 games, 4 goals, 6 assists, 10 points, 1.0 pts/gm, regular season - 1.0 pts/gm
09-10, 12 games, 5 goals, 9 assists, 14 points, 1.2 pts/gm, regular season - 1.3 pts/gm
10-11, 25 games, 9 goals, 11 assists, 20 points, 0.8 pts/gm, regular season - 1.3 pts/gm
11-12, 2 games, 0 goals, 2 assists, 2 points, 1.0 pts/gm, regular season - 0.9 pts/gm
12-13, 4 games, 0 goals, 3 assists, 3 points, 0.8 pts/gm, regular season - 0.9 pts/gm
Total 53 games, 18 goals, 31 assists, 49 points, 0.9 pts/gm, regular season - 1.1 pts/gm

Henrik
08-09, 10 games, 4 goals, 6 assists, 10 points, 1.0 pts/gm, regular season - 1.0 pts/gm
09-10, 12 games, 3 goals, 11 assists, 14 points, 1.2 pts/gm, regular season - 1.4 pts/gm
10-11, 25 games, 3 goals, 19 assists, 22 points, 0.9 pts/gm, regular season - 1.1 pts/gm
11-12, 5 games, 2 goals, 3 assists, 5 points, 1.0 pts/gm, regular season - 1.0 pts/gm
12-13, 4 games, 0 goals, 3 assists, 3 points, 0.8 pts/gm, regular season - 0.9 pts/gm
Total 56 games, 12 goals, 42 assists, 54 points, 1.0 pts/gm, regular season - 1.1 pts/gm

I'd say point a game playoff performers is acceptable.

How about Jonathon Toews
08-09, 17 games, 7 goals, 6 assists, 13 points, 0.8 pts/gm, regular season - 0.8 pts/gm
09-10, 22 games, 7 goals, 22 assists, 29 points, 1.3 pts/gm, regular season - 0.9 pts/gm
10-11, 7 games, 1 goals, 3 assists, 4 points, 0.6 pts/gm, regular season - 1.0 pts/gm
11-12, 6 games, 2 goals, 2 assists, 4 points, 0.7 pts/gm, regular season - 1.0 pts/gm
12-13, 23 games, 3 goals, 11 assists, 14 points, 0.6 pts/gm, regular season - 1.0 pts/gm
13-14, 19 games, 9 goals, 8 assists, 17 points, 0.9 pts/gm, regular season - 0.9 pts/gm
Total 94 games, 29 goals, 52 assists, 81 points, 0.9 pts/gm, regular season - 0.9 pts/gm

Carter, Richards and Kopitar are similar if not worse than Henrik and Daniel. I can post up their stats as well.
Fantastic breakdown. I have never seen this and am impressed.

So you mentioned that the Sedins don't "elevate their games" come playoffs....I would say that Toews definitely does elevate his game yet his numbers don't reflect this which makes it an intangible. This intangible is the secret ingredient that the championship teams possess and for which VCR used to in RK17, last contract Burrows and I'd say Alex Elder still has. These are the winners that we should be building around.

I wonder how you could analyze a players performance to weed out the winners coming out of junior....Detroit apparently has found a way IMO
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Topper » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:02 pm

Toews elevated his game in 09-10 when he won a cup and the legend was born.

My take is that once the playoffs start, top lines are a wash, the difference is in depth and what role players step up. Several years ago during the rein of the WCE, Scotty Bowman did an assessment of playoff teams and his critique of the Canucks was their fourth line of unknowns and reclamation duds.

As for Detroit, in an interview with Holland a few year ago, he said they look for for prospects with national team experience. The age level is less important than but to be selected and honoured amongst ones peers was very important in his selection process.
Last edited by Topper on Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Island Nucklehead » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:38 pm

Topper wrote: My take is that once the playoffs start, top lines are a wash, the difference is in depth and what role players step up. Several years ago during the rein of the WCE, Scotty Bowman did an assessment of playoff teams and his critique of the Canucks was their fourth line of unknowns and reclamation duds.
Correct. Teams that win it all have depth. The 2011 Canucks had depth, until guys like Kesler (Groin), Hamhuis (Hernia), Edler (fingers), Ehrhoff (Shoulder) and to a lesser degree Raymond (back) and Rome (Suspension), Bieksa (MCL) were either out of the lineuup or battling fairly serious injuries. It's true that injuries happen to all teams, but when you look at how crippled the Canucks were after winning the Western Conference and the first couple games against Boston, it's not surprising they lost that final series.

The Sedins cannot carry a team on their backs, especially when you're playing against better competition as the playoffs wear on. It's not a reasonable expectation and it's usually the ignorant hockey fan that makes those claims without looking at the bigger picture: it's a team game.

If Vancouver wins game 6 or 7, this discussion never happens and the Sedins have statues outside Rogers arena when they retire.

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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Uncle dans leg » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:03 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote: If Vancouver wins game 6 or 7, this discussion never happens and the Sedins have statues outside Rogers arena when they retire.
Isn't this the truth. I really do hope they retire Canucks. They have blown away all expectations and have done it with the kind of class I don't think I've ever seen in a pro athlete. If you wanted role models for your kids, can you think of a better couple of guys? I can't.
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Uncle dans leg » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:07 pm

Topper wrote: My take is that once the playoffs start, top lines are a wash, the difference is in depth and what role players step up. Several years ago during the rein of the WCE, Scotty Bowman did an assessment of playoff teams and his critique of the Canucks was their fourth line of unknowns and reclamation duds.
And this is likely why our line up this year has kept us competitive. Mattias is a pretty good depth forward and so is Richardson. I think we can disregard last year and blame angry Fonzie for turning the team into a circus....will he ever coach an NHL team again? I doubt it
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by herb » Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:39 pm

I agree with TopTop and RD.

Mondi and OKC, it's not about losing one game. Sure that was a minor disappointment, but when the best years of nearly half your team are more than likely behind them, then you better be looking towards replacing them within 2 or 3 years.

Hank, Dank, Vrbata, Burrows, Higgins, Bieksa, Hamhuis and Miller are all on the wrong side of 30. No they're not washed up, but their best playing days were years ago. That's damn near half our lineup! Even Richardson and Hansen are rapidly approaching 30.

Yes, it looks like the team will compete for a playoff spot (barring a major collapse, which I hope does not happen). That doesn't mean Benning and Linden shouldn't be looking towards the future. The plan should be to have 2 or 3 young players make the team out of camp next year. Those spots have to come from somewhere, and that means moving guys out.

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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by ukcanuck » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:59 pm

Topper wrote:^ yes

I see 3-5 years of scraping by to get into the playoffs while the talent emerges to replace the Sedins on the top line.

I said when Nonis took over from Burke that his hardest task would be replacing the WCE and he did that with the surprising emergence of the Sedins. (I say surprising because I don't think anyone predicted they would be as good as they have become).

Gillis never attended to that issue though you could argue that Kesler was expected to assume the mantle. Benning has brought in hard working stop gap players in Miller and Verbata on deals that will expire as the kids come online with a vengeance.

You can see a secession plan in place and it is not far fetched. There will be deals made to add to the picture, both roster players and picks in and out. Those are the deals I see happening at the deadline as serious contenders look to add reliable depth. I look forward to seeing it unfold.
I was impressed with Benning and his deal making this summer. I hope to be even more impressed with his body of work this spring at the dead line.

For the first time since maybe Pat Quinn it feels like we have a GM that knows what's out there in the other team's systems and what's coming out of the amateur ranks. I think Linden hired a true hockey personnel guy and one that's connected to the hockey world.

This deadline I'll be very interested to see where he goes.

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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by BurningBeard » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:07 pm

Topper wrote:Toews elevated his game in 09-10 when he won a cup and the legend was born.
For all the jerk off sessions Captain Serious has inspired, he scored his second goal of the 2013 playoffs in his 21st game that off season. He finished with 14 points in 23 games during the playoffs. If Hank had that sort of production, half the fan base would be asking for his head on a plate.
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Reefer2 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:51 pm

herb wrote:I agree with TopTop and RD.
Yes, it looks like the team will compete for a playoff spot (barring a major collapse, which I hope does not happen). That doesn't mean Benning and Linden shouldn't be looking towards the future. The plan should be to have 2 or 3 young players make the team out of camp next year. Those spots have to come from somewhere, and that means moving guys out.
I agree with this, get a couple vets in here to keep the team wining and then bring in the young guys with proper development. I am really hoping to see 2 more young prospects on the team next year plus Horavt, hell I would be happy with 1 guy.

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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:09 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Zamboni Driver, Stanton is a minor leaguer. If we had proper depth on D he'd be in Utica.
This is bullshit . Stanton is fine on the third pairing . He is now playing top 4 minutes anchored to a struggling Bieksa. Think of it as you cruising the Dufferin Hotel with Pauser as a wingman .
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:23 pm

Yeah Calgary Canuck you must be reading too many of pausers shitty posts. The twins are top 20 in LPG in the playoffs since 2008 . Wake up .

And okcanuck there is nothing wrong with dumping one or two vets for picks or prospects , regardless of where the team sits in the standings . If it is a good return ship out a Higgins or two . Then again according to you Horvat wouldn't have made Team Canada .
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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Meds » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:18 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Zamboni Driver, Stanton is a minor leaguer. If we had proper depth on D he'd be in Utica.
This is bullshit . Stanton is fine on the third pairing . He is now playing top 4 minutes anchored to a struggling Bieksa. Think of it as you cruising the Dufferin Hotel with Pauser as a wingman .
Laughed out loud at work when I read that one. Getting some odd stares.

That was fucking gold Blobby.

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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Zamboni Driver » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:58 pm

Topper wrote:Toews elevated his game in 09-10 when he won a cup and the legend was born.

My take is that once the playoffs start, top lines are a wash, the difference is in depth and what role players step up. Several years ago during the rein of the WCE, Scotty Bowman did an assessment of playoff teams and his critique of the Canucks was their fourth line of unknowns and reclamation duds.
Very true, in most later round playoffs I've seen there are often questions about the top line, when we played Boston it was "Where's Lucic/Krejci?", and so on.
Island Nucklehead wrote: Correct. Teams that win it all have depth. The 2011 Canucks had depth, until guys like Kesler (Groin), Hamhuis (Hernia), Edler (fingers), Ehrhoff (Shoulder) and to a lesser degree Raymond (back) and Rome (Suspension), Bieksa (MCL) were either out of the lineuup or battling fairly serious injuries. It's true that injuries happen to all teams, but when you look at how crippled the Canucks were after winning the Western Conference and the first couple games against Boston, it's not surprising they lost that final series.
Actually the problem with the 2011 playoff Canucks was lack of depth.
Lapierre wasn't really capable of generating much offence on the 3rd line, and the 4th line was a revolving door of ineffective fringe players, Glass, Tambellini, Oreskovich, Hodgeson - in a total of 57 playoff games between them they generated a total of - - wait, let me get my calculator - - oh hey, zero goals, zero points. :?

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Re: Los Angeles @ Vancouver 7:00Pm PMT SN,FS-W

Post by Calgary_Canuck » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:50 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Yeah Calgary Canuck you must be reading too many of pausers shitty posts. The twins are top 20 in LPG in the playoffs since 2008 . Wake up .
I agree they are fine in the playoffs but they don't have another gear like most elite players. I think my original post is being taken the wrong way. I was trying to convey that they are the best most consistent top line that we have ever had and I would be happy if they retire as Canucks.

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