GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby mathonwy » Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:10 pm

Lancer wrote:
What does it say about the state of this franchise when we're all just glad we got two points from those low-attendance bozos - even if we had to take this to a shoot-out to do it? There was a time not so long ago when we would complain if the Canucks' didn't win convincingly enough against teams like these.


It's been a VERY very long time since we convincingly won games that we're supposed to win with any type of regularity.

Since 10/11, the Canucks have made it a habit to always play up or down to the level of the opponent.

The only difference now is we legitimately suck.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby Per » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:52 pm

nuckster wrote:
Boston Canucker wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Fack me this team sucks....we will not make the playoffs and will not get top 10 pick...

Mathphony gets 0 Shitsitos :evil:


Yes, they had the formula right in DC. Young guys score, team loses..."don't be calgary" should be this team's motto.


here here ... absolutely nothing to be gained by winning at this point... nuttin

That's the problem with a closed league. Teams that tank should not be rewarded. They should face relegation games against challengers from the AHL. That way the crappy team try their hardest every night the whole season and you get rid of this whole tanking discussion that is a cancer to the sport.

Or at least you could turn the whole draft thing around: let the winners pick first, and teams that tank the season should not get any pick in the first round.

Sure, I know, they do it the way they do to make the league flatter, all teams should be of compararive strength.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby mathonwy » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:10 am

Oooooooh.... challengers from the AHL/OHL/WHL?

That would make things VERY interesting.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:30 am

mathonwy wrote:Oooooooh.... challengers from the AHL/OHL/WHL?

That would make things VERY interesting.


Utica can challenge the Sabres. If we hold our challenge against Abbotsford we could have two teams in the NHL. Or not....

The lottery system was introduced to take away incentive to tank. I highly doubt NHL players, on mass, would tank. I can see individuals giving up, losing motivation, taking time off to heal injuries they would normally play through, that sort of thing. But I just can't see a deliberate tank of a season to try and get a better draft pick.

Of course if you want to make it clean then do the Crosby type of lottery. Every team has equal shot of picking first, or last. Make the standings irrelevant from the point of view of draft order. Of course we could make it really equal and abolish the draft all together and just make everyone a FA. Teams are limited now by the number of contracts they can have and by the cap.

We saw with some good college FA they don't always or necessarily choose the top teams, they choose where they think they will get a chance to play and be an integral part of the team, sooner rather than later. Not a lot of top centres, for example would choose Pittsburg or Chicago if they felt it may take too long for them to be in the top six, some would but I think most would choose the Shultz to Edmonton route.

Do away with RFA too while we are at it. In exchange for total FA the players can give in on contract terms, max 4 years. If everybody is FA prices will come down, supply and demand.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby Topper » Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:25 am

and do away with guaranteed contracts.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby Lancer » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:43 am

Dunno about a Crosby-style lottery for every team, but having a one-team-one-ball lottery for non-playoff teams would make better sense in terms of competition. I could even go for some slight weighting in favour of teams at the bottom of the standings but the current weighting do not do enough to deter tanking.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby dbr » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:01 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Of course if you want to make it clean then do the Crosby type of lottery.


Because nobody questions the outcome of that one. :look:
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:50 am

Tanking for high picks keeps fans of shit teams interested. When it's all ya got..... :cry:
nobody forks with...the jesus
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby nuckster » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:59 am

Just looked at the standings this am and lo an behold we're only 3 points back of Dallas! Even though they have 3 games in hand, it's still conceivable that the Canucks could catch them with the amount of games remaining. Thing is though, what are our chances if we get to the 'dance'? (snowball chance in hell?)

So truthfully, the person who stands to benefit the very most from the Canucks making it to the playoffs is Aquillini. In the grand scheme of things, it's arguably for the best to 'tank' and then acquire a good draft pick for our future. Lets not be the Vancouver Flames and proceed along like Calgar y did for years always achieving the 9th or 10th spot in the conference - a place of futility.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby rats19 » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:02 am

tanking sucks.....PERIOD!!!! (on purpose)

tanking because of poor play injuries aging core...sucks also...but it is at least real!!

I am for bringing up the kids and letting them play the remainder, but mark my words...I want them to win 8-)
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby dbr » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:46 am

I don't think that 9th and 10th place finishes have been the problem with Calgary's rebuild.

The problem with Calgary's rebuild is that it was initiated by Darryl Sutter running that team into the ground.

In 2008 they had a 17th overall pick (that was later used to select Jake Gardiner - with Sbisa, Eberle, Carlson etc on the board) that they dealt for a year of Mike Cammalleri.
In 2009 they dealt Matt Lombardi and a 1st for Olli Jokinen who was gone within a year while Lombardi outproduced him in Phoenix over the same span. Calgary had the option of giving up the 2009 or 2010 pick, they kept their 23rd overall pick in 2009 to draft Tim Erixon who would later force a trade to the New York Rangers (for two second round picks).
In 2010 Sutter dealt Dion Phaneuf for cents on the dollar, finished in a position to draft 13th and Phoenix used that pick to select Brandon Gormley. They also did not have their 2nd round pick that year due to a previous trade that brought in Rene Bourque.
Then of course in 2011 with Jay Feaster at the helm they traded down - passing on players like Girgensons, Teravainen, Tom Wilson and Hertl - to take long term project Mark Jankowski (passing on Olli Maata who was taken right behind him).

If the Flames weren't comically mismanaged over this period you might be looking at a blueline with Giordano, Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Gardiner, Gormley, Maata or any number of other possibilities that would make them a significantly better team right now and in the future.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby herb » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:09 am

Winning is always better than losing. I don't know why people are whining that expectations have changed.

Rebuilding, re-tooling, building from the draft...whatever you want to call it, is not about tanking and trying to be the Edmonton Oilers of the NHL. It's about keeping your draft picks, trying to accumulate additional draft picks when possible and using those picks wisely.

Boy is Nicklas Jensen a surprise...I had all but written him off four or five months ago, but whatever Travis Green has been teaching in Utica has worked. If he keeps playing like this, and if Shinkaruk comes in and has another great camp in the fall, this team could be worth watching again in October.

I have liked what I have seen from Matthias.

Booth will make for a decent third liner at $1.5M for somebody next season.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby BurningBeard » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:13 am

Topper wrote:and do away with guaranteed contracts.

I wonder if the NHL brass would think it's worth it, for the price of another lost season.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby nuckster » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:58 am

dbr wrote:I don't think that 9th and 10th place finishes have been the problem with Calgary's rebuild.

The problem with Calgary's rebuild is that it was initiated by Darryl Sutter running that team into the ground.

In 2008 they had a 17th overall pick (that was later used to select Jake Gardiner - with Sbisa, Eberle, Carlson etc on the board) that they dealt for a year of Mike Cammalleri.
In 2009 they dealt Matt Lombardi and a 1st for Olli Jokinen who was gone within a year while Lombardi outproduced him in Phoenix over the same span. Calgary had the option of giving up the 2009 or 2010 pick, they kept their 23rd overall pick in 2009 to draft Tim Erixon who would later force a trade to the New York Rangers (for two second round picks).
In 2010 Sutter dealt Dion Phaneuf for cents on the dollar, finished in a position to draft 13th and Phoenix used that pick to select Brandon Gormley. They also did not have their 2nd round pick that year due to a previous trade that brought in Rene Bourque.
Then of course in 2011 with Jay Feaster at the helm they traded down - passing on players like Girgensons, Teravainen, Tom Wilson and Hertl - to take long term project Mark Jankowski (passing on Olli Maata who was taken right behind him).

If the Flames weren't comically mismanaged over this period you might be looking at a blueline with Giordano, Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Gardiner, Gormley, Maata or any number of other possibilities that would make them a significantly better team right now and in the future.


Very thought out (researched) submission - thanks.
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Re: GDT: Canucks vs. Luongo 12PM PST, SNETP

Postby Topper » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:24 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Topper wrote:and do away with guaranteed contracts.

I wonder if the NHL brass would think it's worth it, for the price of another lost season.

I mentioned it during the last negotiations.

I probably follow the NFL more than the NHL since the lockout and this years free agency has been great entertainment.

But can you imagine GMMG having ability to cut Booth, sit down with Burrows and force a renegotiation.....
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