GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby herb » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:21 pm

Meds wrote:I I think it was the home game against Toronto in which Garrison went awkwardly into the boards behind Luongo with a Leaf player and came out hobbling. He was then in noticeable discomfort on the bench and looked slow for the rest of the game and in Phoenix as well. Could be he's nursing a minor lower body injury right now.


Good rememory. It could very well be that something's up.

Meds wrote:Kassian in slowly buying in and finding his game. I think that Torts is giving him a more defined role, and the lack of an after the whistle nazi behind the bench can only serve to make him more comfortable playing a physical game when his new coach is OK with a penalty if it comes from being too aggressive when throwing a hit or pursuing the puck. I had hoped we might see some magic from him this year and maybe 20 goals. A couple of hot streaks might get him in that neighborhood, but I'll be happy with 15 goals and 30 point from him if he continues to be physical and stick up for his teammates. He'll get there, but like so many power forward style big guys it will be a slower development.


I thought it was interesting that Torts didn't bench Kassian after the Vrbata boarding penalty. AV would've stapled his ass to the bench, but Torts wants his guys to err on the side of aggressiveness. A defined role, the green light to release the beast from the coaching staff and some confidence will do wonders for Kassian.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:21 pm

Love Luongo's humour. Asked about the fluke first goal and he responds:


"Luongo said he was tired of talking about giving up goals on the 1st shot of games so he decided to give one up before the first shot"
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby herb » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:41 pm

So Welsh has actually looked surprisingly competent out there.

Could an Archibald-Welsh-Weise fourth line actually be serviceable and play 7 or 8 competent minutes a game?
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby JelloPuddingPop » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:36 pm

No - we would need a coach willing to play his top players less to get a fourth line into that many minutes.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:31 pm

Topper wrote:Not too long ago an AV coached Canucks lead the league in third period comeback wins. The falloff from that highlights how complacent the group had become.


Jeez - I agreed with you twice in 24 hours.

The team was too complacent.

The team still needs a little something else on the 2nd line.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby tantalum » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:36 pm

Well before making the call on whether Torts will still go with three lines it would be nice to actually give him a fourth one to work with. I don't think it's a stretch at all to see a fourth line get another 2 or 3 minutes in a game not filled with penalties.

The only players on the Rangers last year that were under 7 minutes a game were Asham (27 GP), Haley (8 GP) and Rupp (9 GP). So one player in Asham who was a regular sighting in the lineup played less than 7 minutes and he had 6:37 average icetime. The next regular sighting was Powe who had nearly 9 minutes a game (8:42).

Torts will play his bottom line guys if he is able to play them that much.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Topper » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:54 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Topper wrote:Not too long ago an AV coached Canucks lead the league in third period comeback wins. The falloff from that highlights how complacent the group had become.


Jeez - I agreed with you twice in 24 hours.

The team was too complacent.

The team still needs a little something else on the 2nd line.

You would be wise to agree with me more often.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:01 pm

Topper wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:
Topper wrote:Not too long ago an AV coached Canucks lead the league in third period comeback wins. The falloff from that highlights how complacent the group had become.


Jeez - I agreed with you twice in 24 hours.

The team was too complacent.

The team still needs a little something else on the 2nd line.

You would be wise to agree with me more often.


I bow before you old wise one.

By the way where has RD been since the Nucks started winning
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:30 pm

I don't think there is any question Torts would love to roll four lines. One good thing with the injuries is that a number of bottom 6 players are getting a long look.

Thus far we seem to have a top six that are playing well. Richardson is holding the fort on the third line and with JS out for awhile still he will get a great chance yo show he can do the job. I can see Hansen fitting in there with Kassian as a strong third line.

If Booth comes back and begins to show he has turned the corner and contribute, play the way we need him to I can see him fitting in the third line with Kassiand and Richardson. That leaves a heLthy Hansen on the fourth line.

I guess my point is that both Booth and Hansen could be back before too much longer and suddenly we have the bodies to now roll four lines. Welsh looks likes he can hold down the 4th line centre position but I am not totally sold on that.

Heck Weise and JS still have to make it back. When we are healthy up front I think we have the pieces to roll four effective lines no matter how Torts has them set up. BUT all of this is contingent upon both Richardson and Santorelli continuing playing the way they are. They dry up and we are back to our search for another effective centre and or top six.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Meds » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:19 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
Heck Weise and JS still have to make it back. When we are healthy up front I think we have the pieces to roll four effective lines no matter how Torts has them set up. BUT all of this is contingent upon both Richardson and Santorelli continuing playing the way they are. They dry up and we are back to our search for another effective centre and or top six.


Sestito is pure garbage out there, but other than him I think our 4th line has been adequate when called upon, and really Sestito doesn't completely lack in hockey sense, he's just ridiculously slow. However, I haven't even noticed that Weise is missing. While I don't think that Weise is useless, I do think that he tries to play in a role that he hasn't been given. I sometimes think that he forgets that he's out there to dump, chase, and hit, first, and then chip in and do something offensively as a secondary consideration, and he sometimes seems too tentative physically, almost like a he wants to be a finesse guy who makes the cute play instead of the smart play.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby The Brown Knight » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:45 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I don't think there is any question Torts would love to roll four lines. One good thing with the injuries is that a number of bottom 6 players are getting a long look.

Thus far we seem to have a top six that are playing well. Richardson is holding the fort on the third line and with JS out for awhile still he will get a great chance yo show he can do the job. I can see Hansen fitting in there with Kassian as a strong third line.

If Booth comes back and begins to show he has turned the corner and contribute, play the way we need him to I can see him fitting in the third line with Kassiand and Richardson. That leaves a heLthy Hansen on the fourth line.

I guess my point is that both Booth and Hansen could be back before too much longer and suddenly we have the bodies to now roll four lines. Welsh looks likes he can hold down the 4th line centre position but I am not totally sold on that.

Heck Weise and JS still have to make it back. When we are healthy up front I think we have the pieces to roll four effective lines no matter how Torts has them set up. BUT all of this is contingent upon both Richardson and Santorelli continuing playing the way they are. They dry up and we are back to our search for another effective centre and or top six.


I think this is a pretty good point and I indirectly alluded to this in another thread.

Right now, our only real weakness other than the Power Play (which probably will get better at some point) is our 4th line.

However - once we get Hansen-Schroeder-Jensen back, why not just have them as exactly that?.......as our new 4th line.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Meds » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:16 pm

The Brown Knight wrote:Right now, our only real weakness other than the Power Play (which probably will get better at some point) is our 4th line.


I think part of the reason that the PP stagnated after a reasonably good first couple of games, other than bad bounces of course, was that it became very predictable. The whole plan for the first unit was to pass the puck a few times and hope that the PK forgot that the goal of our PP was to hit Garrison for the one-timer. Everyone figured that out in a hurry and began to take it away, but the PP never adjusted to this. I chalk this up to the last vestiges of Vigneault's influence hanging around. The other PP members didn't do anything to create options for the puck carrier and we were held to the perimeter and then shots weren't getting through.

Tortorella is a coach who will say enough is enough and shake things up. So now both Edler and Garrison are on the second unit which forces the first unit to be more creative and use more options. A good coach kicks his players in the ass to knock them out of a rut. The second PP unit is also a better mix of guys for crashing the net for rebounds down low. Hank and Dank not so much.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:25 pm

Numering lines is ok when you have a clear drop off in talent from top six to bottom six. While we have a stellar top 3 I would suggest 4-12 , when fully healthy, are pretty comparable.

Torts likes to roll four lines but he will ride whoever is hot from game to game. What this means to me is that balance 4-12 allows him to mix and match, ride who has game any given night and not have a depreciable skill drop off in the bottom three lines. We haven't had that since we had a healthy Manny and a rejuvenated Torres.

I guess I' saying I don't care if it's called the 2nd, 3rd or 4th line as long as we have balance, secondary scoring and play sound team defence. Torts has a willingness to make in game changes and sit guys that don't bring it on any given night. He doesn't type cast players, he is willing to mix it up, it all depends on effort and consistency with him. So when players like Booth, JS, Hansen, Weise, Jensen are all healthy we will have a lot of options, barring anyone else getting hurt.

The biggest key to me thus far is that both Richardson and Santorelli have had great starts. I love it but fear it. If they can continue to bring consistency I like how we look, if not then I don't like how we look. That simple, really. So if we can upgrade and land a true top six even at the cost of one of our top 4 on the back end I'd be all for it. I fear too much may be riding on perennial 3rd-4th line players.

I didn't feel this way earlier but with Stanton, Tanev and Corrado I feel more comfortable letting a top 4 go, for the right price.
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby sagebrush » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:25 pm

^^
Torts either thinks quicker &/or is more open to change than his predecessor. Possibly, more than the team grew complacent after 2011. Torts is more articulate than AV, too much so when in NY.

Edler for Voracek. ;)
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Re: GDT: Nov 7: Canucks @ Sharks - 7:30pm PT - SPac

Postby Tiger » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:50 pm

Topper said :
Stanton is so steady defensively he's filled the vacancy of Salo back there.


Not sure if he can shoot the puck with power . But agree he is excellent defensively.
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