The Glass is Half Empty....

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ODB
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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by ODB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:20 am

Mondi wrote:Not asking for you to engage, just responding to the people (HOMERS) around here that refuse to admit the team is backsliding.

I put this question to anyone out there: Have the last 25 months in Canuck's history been an example of strong management of an NHL hockey club?
Allow me to retort.

Have the last 25 months in Canuck's history been an example of strong posting by YOU? Are you part of the problem or part of the solution?
BTW, NOT A FLAME ... JUST AN OBSERVATION ... :P

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Cornuck » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:28 am

How's the weather up in Vancouver? Getting hot? Everyone seems a little edgy.

Remember, that this is just hockey board, and OPINIONS are welcome here.

Go outside, get some fresh air and relax. We'll have some hockey soon....
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donlever
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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by donlever » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:57 am

Cornuck wrote: We'll have some hockey soon....
.. unfortunately (from the general tone at this here goddamn hockey talk message board) it will quite possibly be pretty frickin' lame hockey however.

Woe are (sic) your Vancouver Canucks.
A different goddamn hockey talk messageboard!

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by dbr » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:12 am

Mondi wrote:Not asking for you to engage, just responding to the people (HOMERS) around here that refuse to admit the team is backsliding.
Well you normally avoid ad hominems, that's what I hear anyway, so I will ignore the homer remark.

I think the team has undeniably slid since it's apex in the 2010-11 season. I think it's very much up in the air whether the 2013-14 edition will slide from where the 2012-13 team was.
I put this question to anyone out there: Have the last 25 months in Canuck's history been an example of strong management of an NHL hockey club?
I don't know. I'm not totally happy with every outcome but most decisions have appeared to be pretty solid in the proper context.

Could things have gone better, absolutely. I think for the most part the process has been pretty strong and the results have been mediocre.

The Luongo/Schneider situation is the one huge exception to that but I don't think we are working with enough information to praise or condemn Gillis for his handling of that.

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Aaronp18 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:24 am

Mondi wrote:Not asking for you to engage, just responding to the people (HOMERS) around here that refuse to admit the team is backsliding.
I don't think anyone isn't willing to admit that the Canucks will take a bit of a slide but over the past 3 seasons we have a Cup appearance, two Presidents trophies oh and we've won the Northwest the past five straight years.

It's not hard to fall back from that success. I think what most are saying is that there really isn't any reason to spread doom and gloom. We will have a bit of cap space this year to make more acquisitions throughout the season, we have healthy players coming back and some decent young kids that may make an impact sooner rather than later.

We are likely still a top 10 team in the league as opposed to possible Cup favorites like we've been for the past 3 seasons.
Mondi wrote:I put this question to anyone out there: Have the last 25 months in Canuck's history been an example of strong management of an NHL hockey club?
Yes.

How can you say anything less than that when looking at our overall success. Sure Gillis has made some moves that haven't panned out, so has every GM if we examine each and every move to the nth detail. We look at the Canucks through a microscope because they are the team we follow. It's easy to find the warts and forget about the success we've been witness to.

We are going to see a differently coached team for the first time in seven years, and we're likely to see some some new young Canucks draft picks play a more prominent role for the team this year.

Changes are happening and hopefully for the better. We saw over the past 2 seasons that something had to be done as the team has gotten stale and easy to predict and defend against.

The benefit the Canucks have is they are permitted by ownership to operate right at the cap (even exceed it), which allows them to bring in and keep talent. The problem this year the Canucks have is they are permitted by ownership to operate right at the cap. This is terrible when the cap artificially goes down and really hamstrings teams that are always at the cap.

I'm not sure what you expected the Canucks to do exactly, the league (and NHLPA for that matter) has made it very tough for the Canucks to do anything this offseason. Especially when you change the rules and make what was a perfectly acceptable (and approved) contract for a superstar goaltender now have severe consequences under certain circumstances. Which has clearly made this player next to completely immovable.

Things will be much tougher for the Canucks this year, no one is denying that. We still have a strong talent base, some young blood and hopefully with a new coach we can have some decent success. We have the ability to improve throughout the season and then who knows what can happen come playoff time!

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by $lacker » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:24 am

dbr wrote:The Luongo/Schneider situation is the one huge exception to that but I don't think we are working with enough information to praise or condemn Gillis for his handling of that.
Everyone should go back and read this thread from the 1st page: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9346

Most, including myself, thought that RL would fetch a good return (one even suggested Lu for Huberdeau and Howden or Lu for Connolly and 2 first rounders (TBL)). My point is, Gillis thought he had a strong card and tried to out wait other GM's for a better offer. I don't blame him for that. Hindsight is always 20/20... judging from the early days of that thread, I don't think many people at the time would have been happy with a less than stellar return for Lu.

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by herb » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:51 am

The Canucks are not royally screwed and they are not a sure fire playoff favourite like Chicago or LA. They are a top 1/3 of the league team. They’ll make the playoffs, and from there we know anything can happen.

I don’t think the “regression” from a top team speaks to poor management. Similarly, the Red Wings are no longer an elite team, and I don’t think that speaks to bad management on the part of Ken Holland. On paper, the Pens should be the best regular season team year in and year out, yet they’re not because it’s a tough league.

The last couple of years, there have been injuries, players have left via free agency, and there have been some defensible gambles that haven’t worked out. There are some things I would have liked Gillis to do differently, but overall I think we’re on the right path.

I think it’s incredibly hard to stay at that level, and I think this group obviously lost focus after the loss to Boston. To me it looked like the Canucks began to coast through the regular season because all they really cared about was the playoffs, but then found out it’s not so easy to “flip the switch” once the playoffs begin.

I am optimistic that the coaching change will renew the team’s focus. I am cautiously optimistic that some of our young players are not that far away from being true impact players, and I think the holes we have (3C, 6th defenseman, back-up goaltender) are rather small in the grand scheme of things and can be filled this season either through trades or through internal growth.

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by sagebrush » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:36 pm

Re: OP points 2 & 3; D & goalie depth. Both positions suffered from excess drama last season. Less is better. Would like to have seen more done with top 4 D resource allocation, but ... que sera sera.

Fodder for goalie controversy left with Schneider. Still, an emotional guy like Luongo is gonna provide some goalie
drama every year. Hopefully, Luongo's learned to keep it on the light side, but I wouldn't count on it.

If a half full glass could talk, it would say Luongo's compete level is still high, & when he's on his game he's dominant.

Then there's Edler. Like others here, I've criticized this space cadet for his inconsistent play. But there is a ray of hope. It's possible that under the comfy AV regime, Edler achieved a level of play that ensured good ice time, & Edler saw little reason to do more. Lack of incentive can get boring. Torts may change that. Edler may not like how Torts does it.

Too many more moving parts to comment on the rest (at this time). Have atter boys (& girls).

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Strangelove » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:11 pm

Mondi wrote: just responding to the people (HOMERS) around here that refuse to admit the team is backsliding.
Who you callin "HOMER" Omar? :mex:

Seriously, WHO are these people to which you refer (and "respond")?? :eh:

And why didn’t YOU respond directly to their posts?

Yeah cuz I'm saying they don't exist and I'm here to help. :thumbs:
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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Jovocop » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:10 am

If you have nothing better to do and still think that the Canucks could be a lot better with Dave Nonis than Mike Gillis, there is a pretty good article about the Leaves and Dave...
:lol:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... eason-been

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Strangelove » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:55 pm

Jovocop wrote:If you have nothing better to do and still think that the Canucks could be a lot better with Dave Nonis than Mike Gillis, there is a pretty good article about the Leaves and Dave...
:lol:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-trian ... eason-been
:thumbs:
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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Spock » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:34 pm

FYI----Spock has generally been a "half-full" kind of poster. But the change in the CBA and the Cap combined with some pretty poor trades has put the team and my attitude in a "half-empty" position.

Could Gaunce, Horvat, Jensen and Shinkakuk change that? Not this season. Very unlikely (not impossible).

Face it, folks. Canucks are older, and with less depth and still not enough *jam*. Strange-One - even you would have to admit there are simply not enough assholes on this team.

From the looks of the roster, it looks like the Canucks are planning on Schroeder and Jensen *not* working out.
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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Strangelove » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:35 pm

Spock wrote: Canucks are older, and with less depth and still not enough *jam*. Strange-One - even you would have to admit there are simply not enough assholes on this team.
What if Gaunce and Lain step up and GMMG signs Murray...


FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Brendan Gaunce ($1.057m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Brad Richardson ($1.150m) / Kellan Lain ($0.600m) / Dale Weise ($0.750m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Douglas Murray ($1.750m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Yannick Weber ($0.650m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)

GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,959,444; BONUSES: $162,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $503,056

Still not enough asshole, but bigger, grittier. :thumbs:

Sestito/Weise/Richardson rotate....
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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by Jovocop » Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:06 pm

Strangelove wrote: DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Douglas Murray ($1.750m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Yannick Weber ($0.650m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)

GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,959,444; BONUSES: $162,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $503,056

Still not enough asshole, but bigger, grittier. :thumbs:

Sestito/Weise/Richardson rotate....
Murray would simply make the backend a lot bigger and nastier... As slow as Murray is, I would still take him over Albert or Fistric. Edler and Murray would be a perfect marriage. Two big guys who can hit hard. One brings offense and the other brings solid defense.




Murray is a monster...

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Re: The Glass is Half Empty....

Post by FAN » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:23 am

Jovocop wrote: Murray would simply make the backend a lot bigger and nastier... As slow as Murray is, I would still take him over Albert or Fistric. Edler and Murray would be a perfect marriage. Two big guys who can hit hard. One brings offense and the other brings solid defense.
Sounds good on paper, but teams might be able to skate circles around that pairing.

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