Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:22 am

BladesofSteel wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:What are these off ice issues anyway?
Is it just meathead I'm 24 and can drink whiskey straight from the bottle while doing lines on three chicks asses all the same time, issues?
Cause those kind of fix themselves with time

Ryan Malone called, he'd like your attorney's business card.

im not asking for names and numbers, just an idea about what kind of head space comes with a trade
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Arachnid » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:35 am

ukcanuck wrote:What are these off ice issues anyway?
Is it just meathead I'm 24 and can drink whiskey straight from the bottle while doing lines on three chicks asses all the same time, issues?
Cause those kind of fix themselves with time


As long as he stays away from Surrey skanks he's golden :thumbs:
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:42 am

we all got friends in low places says Garth
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Diehard1 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:44 pm

Betamax wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:[quote="Betamax]duh, care to tell me a free agent or a "less expensive player" that you think the Canucks should target instead?

I'd prefer to give the 6th overall pick rather than Horvat as the main piece ... but given the stage where the Jets are, in trying to get into the playoffs for the first time in how many years in Winnipeg, I think they'd want a prospect that has one more year further ahead in development.[/quote]

No, no I don't. I didn't suggest anybody because there's no use, but take your pick of any free agent who only costs money or any player on another team who might be available. Fact is Kane might be up there with the most expensive players you can pick up.

Really see no need to trade the pick either, why trade the first pick in the top 6 the team has had in over 15 years?[/quote]

The problem is that with any decent UFA unless they have an affinity to come to the Canucks i.e. hometown guy like Hamhuis is that you are going to pay a premium and term. Just look at how the market blew up for "Wendel" Clarkson and the Leafs are paying for it.

UFA cost not only money but occupy AAV, guaranteed to have NTC or NMC if they are any good and you are locked up with them for a long time. Just look at the Canucks' players with NTC/NMCS.

For good reason you would have to pay more for "The Real Deal." With E. Kane you are getting a premium young talent with no NTC who is just entering his prime. Michael D. Gillis said that Kassian types are rarely offered in the market. Well, E. Kane is a Kassian type but at a much higher and proven level and pedigree.

A less expensive player is generally not a potential elite level talent coming back. The Canucks need potential elite level talent in their top 3 entering their prime if they not want to just make the Playoffs and be a participant but actually win the tournament.

What say you? 8-)[/quote]


I agree, if you want elite talent you have to give up talent. I want elite talent too, but I want it playing either centre or defense. Could say goalie too but I'm less concerned there. An elite winger just doesn't do enough to carry his team like an elite centre does - it's the reason guys like Ovechkin, Kessel and Nash have very little team success because they don't have an elite centre.

I'd love to have Kane, don't get me wrong, but not at the cost of Horvat or the 6th pick - those are what you build around along with a guy like Kane. As I said before, trade Kesler for young players and picks, then use those pieces for a guy like Kane if you want. I really don't get the 'overpay because he's from Van' mentality, doesn't make sense to me. Don't care where they are from if they help the team win.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby herb » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:04 pm

I really like Kane, but we need Horvat to work out for us a whole heck of a lot more than we need a guy like Kane.

Our prospect depth is improving but still shit and still years away from being the new core of the team. If we trade Horvat and a pick our prospect depth would be absolutely gutted - we are that thin.

I just don't see how trading for Kane is feasible. We can't afford to trade the pieces Winnipeg would want, and the pieces we have to trade either aren't enough to land Kane or won't waive to go to Winnipeg.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Betamax » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:09 pm

Diehard1 wrote:I agree, if you want elite talent you have to give up talent. I want elite talent too, but I want it playing either centre or defense. Could say goalie too but I'm less concerned there. An elite winger just doesn't do enough to carry his team like an elite centre does - it's the reason guys like Ovechkin, Kessel and Nash have very little team success because they don't have an elite centre.


Well, you can look at it that way. But was Linden really a Centre? Or a RWer turned into one? I think E. Kane was centre initially but converted to wing at the NHL level. What about the other Kane. Patrick Kane? You think the Blackhawks win the SC an either of those years without him playing the wing? Is Kesler really a centre? Or a better winger?

I'd love to have Kane, don't get me wrong, but not at the cost of Horvat or the 6th pick - those are what you build around along with a guy like Kane. As I said before, trade Kesler for young players and picks, then use those pieces for a guy like Kane if you want. I really don't get the 'overpay because he's from Van' mentality, doesn't make sense to me. Don't care where they are from if they help the team win.


Do you project Horvat or the 6th pick to turn into an "elite" level player? Even with his off-ice issues, I think E. Kane has a better chance of meeting that status.

You would "go all in" as Botchford has to say is because he is a rare talent. How many players' in all have hockey in recent years has scored as many goals he has at his age? He has the chance to be an Iggy type player over the long-term. The skill sets there but the risk is whether you will project he will continue to mature both on and especially off-ice.

Edit: Just a general comment that I've observed, not singling you out per se but it seems to me that fans tend to be "seduced" by the 'P' word i.e potential of blue-chip prospects and high draft picks ... since you haven't seen their warts at the professional level.

Edit 2:

via: http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/04/10 ... blogmodel/

Botch's "Best Idea":

BEST IDEA

Maybe the first big move for the Lord and his new GM is a Kesler trade, but there is something more pressing.
If the Jets really are going to trade Evander Kane, and the odds are still long, the Canucks have to be all-in. And not the Ray Shero “Sutter and a couple of shitty picks for Kesler” all-in.

The Canucks need to be “we’re building a package around Bo Horvat our only blue chip prospect” all in.
Even then, they’d have to cross their fingers and hope all those me-first attitude rumours floating out of Winnipeg are enough to get Kane on a bunch of GM’s don’t-touch lists.


They also have to hope LA doesn’t cut the line and land him for some bargain bin price, because that just seems like something LA would somehow be able to do.

If the stories are true that Kane really has wanted to play in Van, it would be pretty fitting. The one time the Canucks need a player to have a NTC, he doesn’t got on.


As I said earlier, I think the Jets would prefer a Kassian and Tanev package back over a Horvat plus package. They want NHL roster players that can contribute now before their fans become like, duh Canucks fans. 8-)
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:49 pm

I would trade Horvat for Kane in a heartbeat. Guys like Kane don't grow on trees . He has scored at a 50 point pace over the course of a 324 game NHL career and he is 23 in 4 months. He is a top end young power forward in the NHL and if this player is available this summer the Canucks should be all over this. I doubt the Jets would want Horvat anyways so it's likely a moot point. I agree with Duramax that the Jets would covet Kassian and Tanev in a deal with Vancouver. I would be hesitant to give up on Kassian at this point and I would love to see both Kassian and Evander on this team.

Maybe Vancouver could work out a three way deal with Kesler heading to Anaheim, prime young assets heading to the Peg and Kane to Vancouver. Fact is, Vancouver needs some young forwards to make an impact if they plan to improve and play with the big boys. If TL wants to reshape the team I see Kesler, Kassian and Tanev as the only pieces that could bring back some good young forwards. I would prefer to keep # 9 . I would like to keep Tanev as well but the simple fact is the top 4 d men on this team refuse to waive their ntc. He will be a good player but not a guy that a team should lose sleep over trading as he moves into a likely 3+ million dollar deal.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Betamax » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:08 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I would trade Horvat for Kane in a heartbeat. Guys like Kane don't grow on trees . He has scored at a 50 point pace over the course of a 324 game NHL career and he is 23 in 4 months. He is a top end young power forward in the NHL and if this player is available this summer the Canucks should be all over this. I doubt the Jets would want Horvat anyways so it's likely a moot point. I agree with Duramax that the Jets would covet Kassian and Tanev in a deal with Vancouver. I would be hesitant to give up on Kassian at this point and I would love to see both Kassian and Evander on this team.

Maybe Vancouver could work out a three way deal with Kesler heading to Anaheim, prime young assets heading to the Peg and Kane to Vancouver. Fact is, Vancouver needs some young forwards to make an impact if they plan to improve and play with the big boys. If TL wants to reshape the team I see Kesler, Kassian and Tanev as the only pieces that could bring back some good young forwards. I would prefer to keep # 9 . I would like to keep Tanev as well but the simple fact is the top 4 d men on this team refuse to waive their ntc. He will be a good player but not a guy that a team should lose sleep over trading as he moves into a likely 3+ million dollar deal.


I'm fine with moving Kesler but I moving Kassian and/or Tanev would be like moving forward in a treadmill. IMO, those are the two guys you hope will be among the teams' "best" players in the next couple of years and will be the core the next time the Canucks' contend for the SC.

That's why I would be okay for the Canucks to move their alleged "best" prospect in Horvat for E. Kane who fits the age profile of a Kassian and Tanev in the early to mid 20s. By the time you can reasonably expect Horvat to be an impact players the Sedins' would be at the end of their prime (if they aren't there already).
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:12 pm

I am also okay with moving Horvat for Kane but I see the Jets wanting Kassian + instead. They have some nice young centres and Kassian provides a lot of what Kane does, albeit he is more unproven. I want to keep Kassian for sure and Tanev but he may have to be moved to freshen up this teams forward ranks.

Only one solution here and it's manage a trois involving a duck, a whale and a jet. :mex:
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:18 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I am also okay with moving Horvat for Kane but I see the Jets wanting Kassian + instead. They have some nice young centres and Kassian provides a lot of what Kane does, albeit he is more unproven. I want to keep Kassian for sure and Tanev but he may have to be moved to freshen up this teams forward ranks.

Only one solution here and it's manage a trois involving a duck, a whale and a jet. :mex:



Or a Blackhawks or two.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Betamax » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:23 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I am also okay with moving Horvat for Kane but I see the Jets wanting Kassian + instead. They have some nice young centres and Kassian provides a lot of what Kane does, albeit he is more unproven. I want to keep Kassian for sure and Tanev but he may have to be moved to freshen up this teams forward ranks.

Only one solution here and it's manage a trois involving a duck, a whale and a jet. :mex:


I think the key to freshening up the teams' forward rank is Kesler and/or Edler and the no.6th pick.

In terms of a trade for E. Kane, I'd rather move the no. 6th pick as the main piece over a Horvat, since he will likely be able to help the team next season in a bottom six role at a minimum.

What about an Edler and no. 6th pick for E. Kane and the Jets' 2014 2nd round pick? Just spitballing, haven't spent more than 15 seconds thinking about the implications or if it's enough.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:29 pm

As far as I know Edler does not want to be dealt. He would have a list of teams if the team forced his hand but I would doubt Winnipeg would be a top destination for this player. Hamhuis, Bieksa and Garrison all seem to want to stay here and this is why i suggested Tanev may be the player who is moved .
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Betamax » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:34 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:As far as I know Edler does not want to be dealt. He would have a list of teams if the team forced his hand but I would doubt Winnipeg would be a top destination for this player. Hamhuis, Bieksa and Garrison all seem to want to stay here and this is why i suggested Tanev may be the player who is moved .


I wouldn't want to move Tanev since that would leave a big hole in top 4 potential dmen on team that are in their prime mid-20s. He's the only player they got that fits that profile. I think Stanton will settle into more of a bottom pairing 5-6th guy.

Winnipeg seems to be a friendly and likable environment for players from Scandinavia i.e. Steen, Selanne, and more recently Enstrom.
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:55 pm

Betamax wrote:

Winnipeg seems to be a friendly and likable environment for players from Scandinavia i.e. Steen, Selanne, and more recently Enstrom.


How do you feel about the pontiff ?
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Re: Canucks select Bo Horvat with the #9 pick

Postby SKYO » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:59 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:As far as I know Edler does not want to be dealt. He would have a list of teams if the team forced his hand but I would doubt Winnipeg would be a top destination for this player. Hamhuis, Bieksa and Garrison all seem to want to stay here and this is why i suggested Tanev may be the player who is moved .


I'd say Edler would only accept a trade to Detroit same with Kesler, could be a blockbuster trade if our new GM wanted.
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