MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

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dbr
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by dbr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:40 am

FAN wrote:Never said Luongo's numbers were terrible. I only said that Schneider outplayed him. Even with your mathematical adjustments, Schneider's numbers were still better across the board. This is not a slight against Luongo, Schneider was simply better. We didn't keep the better goaltender and Gillis knows it.
Don't really disagree with that but the difference in numbers becomes miniscule.. 0.08 goals allowed every sixty minutes becomes 2 goals after 25 games, so that would work out to probably four points in the standings over a full season at worst; maybe five if we're talking about 65 starts.
As a fan of the team, I was much more comfortable with Schneider in net. Luongo's playoff meltdowns have become such a regular occurrence that no lead is safe in the playoffs with Luongo in net. Part of a goaltender's job is to keep the team in the game. He hasn't done that on a consistent basis in the playoffs. For some reason he's been almost mentally fragile after his first series against the Hawks. It's not about Luongo having a bad start.
He's fragile, except when he's not. Until game 7 in the finals, any game in those playoffs where a loss would have put the team behind in a series Luongo's numbers were stellar. I'm not going to do the math again and the board where I posted it is gone but iirc his save percentage was over .950 in those games up until the finals. Of course it's hard not to let the bitterness of the SCF loss colour perception of his overall performance.
I can excuse a bad start, but how many games have we watched Luongo get shelled after looking sharp for more than 20 minutes? That's not a bad start. That's a meltdown. And I don't buy into the team hanging him out to dry, not when Luongo decides to "time" things by flopping on his belly hoping that his glove catches the puck instead of simply staying in position.
I agree with your evaluation of Luongo but I don't agree that the rest of the team should be let off the hook. How many times have we seen them fail to stem the tide when they are under pressure, and continue to surrender grade A chances? How many times have we seen them fail to adjust and get back to playing a simple game when they are running around?

I just don't think it's right to pin everything on the goaltender, even if he does look stupid on a bunch of goals. Anyway not much to discuss on that front so we might as well just agree to disagree.

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by Tciso » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:16 am

Nuckertuzzi wrote: The guy gave up 8 goals in 7 games, he wins the Cup and Conn Smythe largely due to that series alone and very deservingly so. It was a goaltending performance for the ages... <snip> In a series that was about a head-to-head duel between two "equal" goalies Lu got schooled bigtime by the 37 year old and that my friends is the biggest reason we didn't win the Cup that year.

Yeppers. Thomas put on one of the greatest goal tending displays I have ever seen that series. I do beg anyone to find a better display of goal tending in any series ever.

Lou played great. Thomas was elite.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by Tciso » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:25 am

ORCA wrote:
An analyst on CBC at the very beginning of the series said something like, "If Vancouver uses their speed and turns this series into a trackmeet, Boston cannot win. If Vancouver slows down and plays Boston's game, the Bruins will take the cup home." (or something very close) ... Well, the latter happened.
MayRay got his back broken, and we lost the ability to rush the puck with speed. And after that, we played the style the Bruins wanted us to play. MayRay's broken back was a huge reason that we lost the series. Oh, and the fact that AV was once again out-coached, and didn't bother to adapt the Canucks style to the new opponent.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by ORCA » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:32 am

Tciso wrote:
ORCA wrote:
An analyst on CBC at the very beginning of the series said something like, "If Vancouver uses their speed and turns this series into a trackmeet, Boston cannot win. If Vancouver slows down and plays Boston's game, the Bruins will take the cup home." (or something very close) ... Well, the latter happened.
MayRay got his back broken, and we lost the ability to rush the puck with speed. And after that, we played the style the Bruins wanted us to play. MayRay's broken back was a huge reason that we lost the series. Oh, and the fact that AV was once again out-coached, and didn't bother to adapt the Canucks style to the new opponent.
Did I just get trolled?

We lost a series because Mason Raymond couldn't play?

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by herb » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:41 am

Tciso wrote:MayRay got his back broken, and we lost the ability to rush the puck with speed. And after that, we played the style the Bruins wanted us to play. MayRay's broken back was a huge reason that we lost the series. Oh, and the fact that AV was once again out-coached, and didn't bother to adapt the Canucks style to the new opponent.
We lost that serious largely because Mason Raymond got injured?

Losing Mason Raymond, he of 15 goals that season and 2 in those playoffs, was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back?

Jesus…

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by dbr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:55 am

I'm confused. Is Raymond the broken back or the straw in that analogy?

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by Topper » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:58 am

dbr wrote:I'm confused. Is Raymond the broken back or the straw in that analogy?
Both if you swing that way.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by herb » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:03 am

Topper wrote:
dbr wrote:I'm confused. Is Raymond the broken back or the straw in that analogy?
Both if you swing that way.
Raymond's injury was the end of the season. We should have just packed up and gone home once he went down. You see guys, there’s just no way the team could have won that series once “MayRay” went down due to injury.

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by dbr » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:07 am

On the plus side, it was incontrovertible evidence that he has a spine..

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by BurningBeard » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:28 am

dbr wrote:I'm confused. Is Raymond the broken back or the straw in that analogy?
Raymond is the straw. I wouldn't compare him to a camel, that would be quite unfair to camels.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by BurningBeard » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:33 am

herb wrote:We lost that serious largely because Mason Raymond got injured?
I think if you're going to start ripping apart that series and look at every minor detail, you might as well throw Rome's hit on Horton in there. Not because loosing Rome to suspension lost the series (although having a healthy D-man in game 7 would have been nice), but because it seemed to "wake up" Boston to a certain extent.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by donlever » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:19 am

Mondi wrote:I think its time to stop dissecting the 2011 SCF.
lol, no shit.

Bunch o' fukin masochists round these here parts....
A different goddamn hockey talk messageboard!

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by ESQ » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:42 am

FAN wrote: Luongo's playoff meltdowns have become such a regular occurrence that no lead is safe in the playoffs with Luongo in net.
This is what's hilarious to me. Luongo has had five leads to work with in the playoffs since SCF 2011, his record is 3-2. That's five leads in 11 starts.
Part of a goaltender's job is to keep the team in the game. He hasn't done that on a consistent basis in the playoffs. For some reason he's been almost mentally fragile after his first series against the Hawks.
I believe he has among the highest series-winning percentage of any goalie in the League with more than 2 post-season appearances. Niemi is better thanks to the Cup run in his rookie year, but not since then. Crawford and Rask have better series records but in only 2 playoff appearances.

IMO he gets full blame for the first Chicago series, but other than that? What is the "meltdown" in 2010? They were never in that series, had half a defense, and Sami Salo was playing after losing a nut. He never "gave up a lead" vs. Boston. He was the team MVP in that series, which shows how terrible the TEAM was.
I can excuse a bad start, but how many games have we watched Luongo get shelled after looking sharp for more than 20 minutes? That's not a bad start.

I don't know, you tell me: how many times? Maybe 5? 10? Over the course of 440 starts? How many times have we seen Schneider do the same thing over his less than 100 starts? I can think of at least 4 regular season games, and game 3 this year (2 goals in 9 seconds, 3 in 3 minutes when it was a one-goal game).

I'm not trying to shit on Schneider. I hoped that he could pull a fluke Cup run together, a la Niemi, Crawford, Ward, Fleury, etc. etc. But he couldn't do it. Now Schneider has upside and potential, but he hasn't accomplished anything and if he's lucky he will reach the level of Luongo, which is amongst the 5 greatest goalies of the past two decades.

Brodeur went a decade between Finals appearances. Luongo is the kind of goalie that could pull a similar feat, I'm not so sure Schneider is in that class.

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by Rumsfeld » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:05 pm

Terrible trade.

I guess getting nothing for Luongo just rankled GMMG to the point where he figured trading away a perennial Vezina candidate for a kid who might be a good 2nd line center in four or five years was a good idea. Oh, and let's not even let Captain Emoticon the playoff meltdown king know we plan on keeping him 'till after the fact. :lol:

You guys are such fucking homers. If someone had approached this board with NJ's first-rounder for Schneider last week he'd have been laughed out of here. This Horvat kid looks like he'll be good but we're definitely not talking superstar material here.

Now suddenly Cory isn't that great and Torts is going to make an aging Luongo keep his composure in the playoffs? LOL. We'll be lucky to make the playoffs this year and any shot we had at riding a hot goaltender to a Cup is gone.

This site reads like Bountiful right now, seriously.

Anyway I don't have time to get into this, but when Cory's STILL the best statistical goaltender in the league in a couple years a lot of you are going to look pretty silly.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Post by Tiger » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:19 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:Terrible trade.

I guess getting nothing for Luongo just rankled GMMG to the point where he figured trading away a perennial Vezina candidate for a kid who might be a good 2nd line center in four or five years was a good idea. Oh, and let's not even let Captain Emoticon the playoff meltdown king know we plan on keeping him 'till after the fact. :lol:

You guys are such fucking homers. If someone had approached this board with NJ's first-rounder for Schneider last week he'd have been laughed out of here. This Horvat kid looks like he'll be good but we're definitely not talking superstar material here.

Now suddenly Cory isn't that great and Torts is going to make an aging Luongo keep his composure in the playoffs? LOL. We'll be lucky to make the playoffs this year and any shot we had at riding a hot goaltender to a Cup is gone.

This site reads like Bountiful right now, seriously.

Anyway I don't have time to get into this, but when Cory's STILL the best statistical goaltender in the league in a couple years a lot of you are going to look pretty silly.
+1 .. Schneider in the top 5 .. 2 years in a row..
Luongo ? ranking between 12 and 16.. last 2 years..
Purely an ass saving ploy by MG.. a 9th for a top goaltender with a decent contract ?? :(
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