MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby SKYO » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:03 pm

Topper wrote:I predict that in mid October we'll be burning Lou at the stake for another slow start, but by New Years we'll be sucking the snow from his skate blades while splugeing over the play of Gaunce, Horvat and Shinkaruk in the WJC. By the end of Sochi the whole country will be chanting Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.


/thread hahah

And I think Burkie owes the Canucks something for screwing this team over.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:47 pm

Mondi wrote:Cory + Cap Space > Luongo + Good Prospect in the Minors

This season, and probably next.


Actually it's Cory + Cap Space - 1 comp-buyout... VS.... Luongo + Cap Space + Good Prospect.

(only $1.3mil more capspace if we went with Cory).


Mondi wrote:And Cory found out he got traded while watching TSN.


As the trade was being announced by Bettman, Gillis was on the phone with Schneids.

Lamoriello insists there are no leaks whatsoever ahead of trades.

Mondi wrote:To me, the team is being run like a circus.


Indeed, Gillis is looking pretty clownish right now.

"We're gonna trade Schneider."

"Nope, we're gonna trade Luongo."

"Yup we're DEFINITELY gonna trade Luongo."

"We just traded Schneider, that has been our plan all along."

:scowl:

But in the end he traded the goalie I wanted traded and got a great young centre for him.

So I'm kinda okay with Gillis the Clown.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:51 pm

So what do the Canuck players have to say on all of this? Well, I obviously don't know what they all say but from what I am hearing, yes, gossip, it is pretty supportive. Things like:

Surprise not shock that CS was traded.

Hard to see him go just as it would be hard to see Luongo go.

Confident no matter who has the net.

Luongo needs a few days and will get all the support he needs from his teammates.

Thrilled he is still a Canuck and has his team to lean on.

Shocked that Luongo could not get traded and that no team took a chance on a goalie of his skills.

Will rally around him and be there when he reaches out.

See no problems in the dressing room or on the ice.

Wish CS the best, he is a great goalie and a better person.

Knew one of them was going so a sad day no matter who got traded.

Understand the business side of the game.


So it seems they are saying pretty well what we are saying. Surprised as we were but also very glad to still have Luongo on the team. Also sounds like his teammates have his back. I think they will continue to reach out to him. One player allegedly sent him a text telling him he could sleep on his couch if need a place to stay. LOL. I mean the waterboy can't do anything financially at this point to help him re-move back into his condo as that would be cap circumvention. Good to know his teammates have it covered. :mrgreen:
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:57 pm

Hey Doc, the leaks by Lou is a good point. He is allegedly notorious for pulling deals if word leaks out. I am also hearing that this deal was agreed upon on Saturday, subject to the player the Canucks wanting being available at #9. Heard they eyeballed two players. Once the 8th pick went the Canucks called Lou and said it was a go so it really wasn't a complete done deal until the 9th pick came up and their guy was their. So MG had to tell Lou, get the trade call done and then call CS before the announcement.

So I think he tried to get all that done before TSN made the announcement. They should not allow media vultures anywhere near the trade call table during this draft. Duthie had actually texted CS before Bettman made the announcement to get his reaction. That should just not happen and that is not on MG.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Rumsfeld » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:02 pm

Brutal.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby dbr » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:05 pm

Mondi wrote:I wonder if Aqualini fancies himself a powerful NHL owner. Surely he should have (possibly did) fought tooth and nail for a grandfather exception for contracts signed before the CBA was re-written. Retroactive effect is a tough pill to swallow at the negotiating table, how the owners with those Ks already signed capitulated is beyond me.


He'd have to be a pretty fucking powerful owner to convince the league to grandfather in existing deals on a rule punishing contracts that are no longer possible to sign under the current CBA.. :lol:
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Reefer2 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:08 pm

Spock wrote:This deal is making the best of an an unfortunate situation. Yes, the Canucks made this bed - so they do need to sleep in it. But .....
3) When the deal with Luongo was signed, nobody knew the Cap would go down.

----these 3 issues, which were completely *unpredictable*, forced the Canucks into this situation.


If MG did not plan on the cap to go down then he is a fucking idiot.

Everyone knew the cap would come down as there are teams financially struggling and Buttman had been given a mandate to once again control costs.

Your other 2 points I would agree with.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:12 pm

dbr wrote:
Mondi wrote:I wonder if Aqualini fancies himself a powerful NHL owner. Surely he should have (possibly did) fought tooth and nail for a grandfather exception for contracts signed before the CBA was re-written. Retroactive effect is a tough pill to swallow at the negotiating table, how the owners with those Ks already signed capitulated is beyond me.


He'd have to be a pretty fucking powerful owner to convince the league to grandfather in existing deals on a rule punishing contracts that are no longer possible to sign under the current CBA.. :lol:



Well, they did a partial grandfather. Columbus is not on for any cap recapture with respect to Nash because he was traded under the old CBA. Seems if they could make that concession that could have come up with something other than a compliance buy out. But they didn't want to. The point was to punish and get a pound of flesh. Didn't this matter go to an arbitrator who ruled the contracts did not circumvent the cap? Bettman wanted to win this one and he did.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:13 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:So MG had to tell Lou, get the trade call done and then call CS before the announcement.

So I think he tried to get all that done before TSN made the announcement. They should not allow media vultures anywhere near the trade call table during this draft. Duthie had actually texted CS before Bettman made the announcement to get his reaction. That should just not happen and that is not on MG.


Agreed it's not on Gillis.

You can see him on the phone calling Schneids as the trade was being announced:



https://twitter.com/tsnjamesduthie/stat ... 5684173825

"Schneider did not know about the trade when it was announced. When you saw Gillis on the phone right after, it was with Schneider."

Actually Gillis was trying to talk to Schneids AS the trade was being announced.....
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:17 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
Spock wrote:This deal is making the best of an an unfortunate situation. Yes, the Canucks made this bed - so they do need to sleep in it. But .....
3) When the deal with Luongo was signed, nobody knew the Cap would go down.

----these 3 issues, which were completely *unpredictable*, forced the Canucks into this situation.


If MG did not plan on the cap to go down then he is a fucking idiot.

Everyone knew the cap would come down as there are teams financially struggling and Buttman had been given a mandate to once again control costs.

Your other 2 points I would agree with.



The eventual trade is a good one. MG loses marks for everything he did leading up to this having to happen. Living precariously close to the cap every year he has been here, not doing enough to shed cap last year in anticipation of the lowering cap. His hands have been tied for several years with respect to who he can bring in via FA as a result.

Maybe he has stuck to his core too long. Maybe he has handed out too many NTC. Maybe he has been to stubborn to recognize past mistakes. Maybe he has held onto players too long even though AV was clearly not going to play them. All of that is on him.But he end result was the best of the situation.

Maybe he really did need the waterboy to draw a line in the sand.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Spock » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:55 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:[quote="Reefer2]

If MG did not plan on the cap to go down then he is a fucking idiot.

Everyone knew the cap would come down as there are teams financially struggling and Buttman had been given a mandate to once again control costs.

Your other 2 points I would agree with.[/quote]


The eventual trade is a good one. MG loses marks for everything he did leading up to this having to happen. Living precariously close to the cap every year he has been here, not doing enough to shed cap last year in anticipation of the lowering cap. His hands have been tied for several years with respect to who he can bring in via FA as a result.

Maybe he has stuck to his core too long. Maybe he has handed out too many NTC. Maybe he has been to stubborn to recognize past mistakes. Maybe he has held onto players too long even though AV was clearly not going to play them. All of that is on him.But he end result was the best of the situation.

Maybe he really did need the waterboy to draw a line in the sand.[/quote]


As far as sticking to the core too long - I do think MG has really tried hard to make Vancouver a destination players wanted to play in - that they were treated with respect and given rights to their own destiny. To get those rights, most of these core players got payed somewhat less than they might have on the open market. I applaud MG for trying to make the culture of the Canucks one where players *want* to come play in a city where travel has put them at a disadvantage.

Clearly - the NTCs make the team less flexible in its ability to address its needs. It would take Nostradamus to predict how the NHL would stop enforcing some of its on-ice rules....or the change in the CBA....or the Cap drop....and maybe it is this inability to predict future events than suggests to this poster that no NTCs should be offered as a GM.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Reefer2 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:03 pm

Just watched the youtube full video for the 9th pick, what "deal" were all the media talking heads that supposedly Edmonton offered? All I have heard/read is that the Nucks wanted 3 players/prospects back.

Any word what they actually offered?
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby tantalum » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:07 pm

The whole Schneider wasn't told ahead of time thing from the media and fans really annoys me.

Guess what, on deadline day and draft day, teams don't always have the time to let the player know before the trade gets announced. It happens. Schneider doesn't have a NTC/NMC and should have zero expectation of being consulted or even being told in time on these special trading days. Any other day, you certainly call the guy in and talk to him before the trade is announced but it simply doesn't happen like that on draft day. Even if the deal was made the night before. NJ Lou didn't want it announced until the draft so he could make the splash...so if you are going to blame anyone blame NJ Lou. And no you can't tell Schneider and expect it'll stay hush hush. He'll tell a teammate who tells another teammate who tells a player on another team who tells a reporter etc.

And guess what, despite the media's best efforts to demonize Gillis on this point it is clear Schneider has no hurt feelings. And of course Gillis was telling him before the announcement anyways.


edit: to the above. no nothing on what the oilers actually offered just that the Oilers believed it was a better offer. It may have been but maybe it wasn't good enough to make the canucks trade to a divisional rival.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Reefer2 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:26 pm

Also just watched the 24th overall pick, how come no MG when he was being interviewed?
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:54 pm

Right after the trade was announced the media started with the speculation that other GM's were stunned because they "could" have offered more. Well, we all knew CS was in play. If those GM's could have offered more why did't they pick up the phone and offer more?

Lets look at the picks:

No way Florida, Tampa or the Avs trade their number 1 pick for Cory so mark them off the list.

Seth Jones fell to Nashville who didn't need a goalie so no way they offer up the 4th overall pick.

Carolina has Ward but may have been intrigued but no way they take on a 4 million dollar contract while still having Ward and giving up the 5th overall.

Then we come to 6 & 7, the Alberta teams. MG was pretty confident that one of the two guys he wanted would be available to him at 9. If one of the Alberta teams wanted CS they would have to offer up a huge incentive for MG to trade him within the division. This offer would have to include a roster player with a low cap hit or on an ELC, plus their 1st overall. Why else would MG trade to one of the Alberta teams when he knew they guy he wanted was likely to be there? Edmonton had every opportunity to land CS if they wanted to but did not. Us moving up to 6 or 7 was not going to help us but it would put CS on a team within our division.

Then look at number 8 pick. Buffalo. They have Miller who they can't move yet and have a goalie in their system ready to take over that they are comfortable with. No way they take on CS 4 million cap hit and give up their pick.

Then it comes to 9. The trade was made.

Picks below 9 were risky as MG wanted Horvat and knew he could get him at 9. Did any of the teams picking below us step up in the days leading up to the draft once they knew CS was in play. I've heard NYI offered their 15th pick and Nino Niederreiter, but I have yet to see that confirmed anywhere. That would have been sexier for everyone because we would have had Nino and a 1st I guess but perhaps MG really coveted Horvat and feared he would not be there at 15.

I get so tired of the media BS. Every GM out there knew we had to trade a goalie. Every GM out there knew we had cap problems and could not take big or lengthy contracts back. Yet they are surprised because they could have offered more? If that's the case then every other GM failed in their jobs yesterday because they therefore obviously failed to investigate properly if Cory was available. Shame on them for fucking up big time. All they had to do was pick up the phone and call Mike yet they didn't do that?
Last edited by Hockey Widow on Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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