MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Reefer2 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:15 am

Got the news 30,000 feet in the air, I did ask the flight attendant and he came through for me.

I am 50/50, on value for CS, I though we would get more.

But not surprised that CS was moved only because it seems there were no takers for Luongo and the Nucks were cap wise screwed.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Boston Canucker » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:11 am

The issue here, it seems clear, is not what MG got for CS last night, but that he mis-read the situation for the past year or so and boxed himself in. (and actually even further back to signing RL to the deal in the first place). If you remove the goalie circus background, it looks like the Canucks had a stellar, potentially epic day at the draft table...potentially! But you just can't get around how much MG messed this all up, and misread things. He's gone from GM of year a few years back to the kid with the dunce cap...

I'm not worried about Luongo coming back. Actually, this past year he has really rebuilt his standing in the city, with his classy support of CS and his self-deprecating humor on twitter. The storybook ending, dream ending of course, is RL raising the cup as a Canuck after he and everyone else had written off him ever putting on the uniform again...ahh, to dream! Either way, with all that happened I sense once RL gets his head around coming back we may be in for one hell of a coming season from him with Torts throwing shot blocking bodies in front of him!

Next season may be a lot of things - from the riduculous to the sublime - but for sure, it won't be boring!
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby nuckster » Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:24 am

UWSaint wrote:Inevitable in many ways.

Once there wasn't going to be a return for Luongo, the reasonable question is how much better is Cory Schneider than Roberto Luongo over the next two years. Answer -- better, but better than a first round pick?

Personally, I think that Cory Schneider is a hell of a goaltender. As good as Luongo in 2006-7 or 2010-11. Very composed, fundamentally solid, quick. I am going to miss him as a Canuck. I also think the return could have been a little better if the Canucks had been able to take on a roster player, but there are other things at work -- namely the CBA and the Canucks cap situation. GMMG wasn't joking when he said this trade happened when the CBA was signed....

This doesn't make the Canucks better next season, because Luongo < Schneider and the pick isn't making an impact for at least 2 years. But Luongo is still good, might be very good again, and is still ahead of Dan Cloutier and whoever is playing in Toronto next year..... Right? And Schneider was only a Canuck for two more years....

The problem is that is this team's remaining window.... My verdict: not an irrational move, but it shows there is a limit to the owner's purse, because it was this or buyouts. I'll pull for Luongo; I'll pull for the Canucks; but we are in 2005-2006 again, Canuck fans. An aging team without elite goaltending. We don't have a top 10 goalie, and it is very hard to win without one unless you are the Chicago Blackhawks or have Sidney Crosby.

Good luck, CS, you are one of my favorite all-time Canucks. Wish I had seen you play more.


You dont write a lot but you write well.... (so ive noticed over the years)

YES, goodbye Cory, life, funny thing sometimes (who would have ever anticpated this a year go?), as Lou Ammarello (sp?) said earlier today, NJ has secured their future. CS is expected to push and eventually take take over from Brodeur (an icon) ,,,, ok he didn't say those exact words, but it was implied. Unbelievable, wasn't it like yesterday when Brodeur took Detroit?? Getting old man. Who knows, maybe one day we'll see Lou vs Schneids for all the marbles?? (stranger things have happened in th is world)
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Topper » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:54 am

Boston Canucker wrote:The issue here, it seems clear, is not what MG got for CS last night, but that he mis-read the situation for the past year or so and boxed himself in. (and actually even further back to signing RL to the deal in the first place).

Under the terms of the previous CBA, the deal was very, very good. So good in fact, the rules were changed to outlaw these deals in the future and penalized the existing ones.

Does anyone else see Lamoriello and GMMG as natural deal makers? You want a deal without a leak, these are your guys and a very shrewd deal on both sides.

NJ gets a proven solid #1 with top five in the league potential. Sure he'll be looking for a new deal in two years, but then the cap should be growing. He's heir apparent to Marty. Marty played 2/3rds of the games last season, look for closer to 50-50 split this year or possibly CS doing more of the heavy lifting. NJ will have a very strong 1 A/B combo.

Vancouver gets the #9 pick in a deep draft selecting a centre with two way skill, median size, and great character. They also get cap relief and and an end to the goal crease saga. I predict that in mid October we'll be burning Lou at the stake for another slow start, but by New Years we'll be sucking the snow from his skate blades while splugeing over the play of Gaunce, Horvat and Shinkaruk in the WJC. By the end of Sochi the whole country will be chanting Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

While some may be asking why not the skill of Nichushkin, remember he completely failed the character sections of the combine. Clearly not the GMMG guy that Bo is.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Spock » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:28 am

This deal is making the best of an an unfortunate situation. Yes, the Canucks made this bed - so they do need to sleep in it. But .....

1) THE CANUCKS could never have predicted the change in the CBA that basically made Luongo's deal a poison pill. It made him essentially untradeable without a big penalty - even the buyout is giant dollars.

2) When the deal with Luongo was signed, nobody knew Schneider would be such a good goaltender.

3) When the deal with Luongo was signed, nobody knew the Cap would go down.

----these 3 issues, which were completely *unpredictable*, forced the Canucks into this situation.

Given the situation, the Canucks made the best deal they could. I agree with NOT trading with Edmonton. You don't make such a deal in your own division to help a rival - even if it someday helps the Canucks as well.

Sad to see Cory go. Luongo is not stupid enough to retire to avoid playing in Vancouver. Perhaps Gillis can spin the new coach as a new chance to prove himself here.

Bottom Line - team couldnt move forward with both goaltenders. Canucks with Luongo + Horvat > Schneider with a bought out Luongo.

Live Long and Luongo

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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby rats19 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:33 am

Good stuff oh green blood...like has been said already, this season may be many things.....BORING.. Not so much..good to see you Spock.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Mondi » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:40 am

Cory + Cap Space > Luongo + Good Prospect in the Minors

This season, and probably next.

I'm fine with the deal, I'm okay with Luongo as a goalie. But, if this team fancies itself a contender, which it isn't, but that's another topic, there is no way they should keep making deals to get worse.

I'm not sure why the response here is so measured and optimistic when you consider the fact that Cory was a handpicked prospect. Groomed into a player by the organization. Nurtured and prepared for the big time. He puts up the best .SAV% in NHL history over 100 starts, and then they flip him for a guy who needs 3 to 5 years before he can truly help.

The "situation" aside, you have to think Gillis bungled this up 3 or 4 times over and yet AV got canned and Cory got traded. Now they don't even know if RL will report, heck Gillis hadn't even spoken with Luongo. And Cory found out he got traded while watching TSN.

To me, the team is being run like a circus. Unprofessionalism is not a great quality to have at the top.

Then again, what do I know. I like the looks of Horvat. Maybe he'll be the second coming of Bergeron..
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby rats19 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:50 am

^
Mondiman...this must take into account the 3 things the canucks had ZERO control over that spock pointed out....Right?
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Mondi » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:59 am

Yeah of course there were somethings beyond Vancouver's control.

I wonder if Aqualini fancies himself a powerful NHL owner. Surely he should have (possibly did) fought tooth and nail for a grandfather exception for contracts signed before the CBA was re-written. Retroactive effect is a tough pill to swallow at the negotiating table, how the owners with those Ks already signed capitulated is beyond me.

With all that being said, if Luongo could have been dealt at some point for anything it should have been done. If that wasn't an option, Cory could have been traded for more than the 9th pick at some point (or for roster players). Failing that the buyout seems to be the best play, subject to FA nixing that possibility.

As I said, its not a complete disaster. But, giving up on blue chippers you developed in exchange for a draft choice is rare. Extremely rare. What concerns me is the ad hoc manner by which GMMG seems to be running things.

Hopefully Bo comes along quickly.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby rats19 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:05 am

Bold you might even say..lol zero return and millions to buy out, just so you can spend more millions withe freed up cap space...or 9 the round top seeded pick.. I can't blame them. Its the next couple days and before the season starts that will be if utmost interest..
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Mondi » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:08 am

rats19 wrote:Bold you might even say..lol zero return and millions to buy out, just so you can spend more millions withe freed up cap space...or 9 the round top seeded pick.. I can't blame them. Its the next couple days and before the season starts that will be if utmost interest..


You're ignoring how good Cory Schneider is and will be for quite a while. But, let's see how it unfolds.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby rats19 » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:14 am

Yah it kind of doesn't matter right now. My opinion though was that cory had elite goaltender possibilities.. But had not yet attained that distinction, further after the last 2 playoffs to me its 50/50 he gets there. But I liked him and I wish him well..
Oh and I know about the the sv% in first hundred games stat...but 100 games is not a career yet..
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:17 am

Mondi wrote:
rats19 wrote:Bold you might even say..lol zero return and millions to buy out, just so you can spend more millions withe freed up cap space...or 9 the round top seeded pick.. I can't blame them. Its the next couple days and before the season starts that will be if utmost interest..


You're ignoring how good Cory Schneider is and will be for quite a while. But, let's see how it unfolds.

And you might be overestimating how good Cory will be. He didn't exactly make a difference In the games he played in the playoffs we still lost all but one game with him as starter.

He's good but will he be a second coming of Patrick Roy? Because that's the only way we really lose this trade.


I agree Rats.... Obviously lol
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby tantalum » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:46 am

Cory Schneider, i think, will be an excellent starting goaltender. However, it is worth pointing out he has yet to appear in 35 games during a season...let alone 60+. He hasn't had a starters workload yet for an entire season and until he shows he can handle it there are indeed question marks. If he fizzles out the back half of a season the trade looks a whole lot different....and I don't think it's a horrible trade to begin with. Not saying it will happen, I don't think it will happen, but his success as a starter is not some predetermined destiny any more than Bernier's is.
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Re: MacKenzie: Corey Schneider to NJ for 9th overall pick

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:57 am

Mondi wrote:Yeah of course there were somethings beyond Vancouver's control.

I wonder if Aqualini fancies himself a powerful NHL owner. Surely he should have (possibly did) fought tooth and nail for a grandfather exception for contracts signed before the CBA was re-written. Retroactive effect is a tough pill to swallow at the negotiating table, how the owners with those Ks already signed capitulated is beyond me.

With all that being said, if Luongo could have been dealt at some point for anything it should have been done. If that wasn't an option, Cory could have been traded for more than the 9th pick at some point (or for roster players). Failing that the buyout seems to be the best play, subject to FA nixing that possibility.

As I said, its not a complete disaster. But, giving up on blue chippers you developed in exchange for a draft choice is rare. Extremely rare. What concerns me is the ad hoc manner by which GMMG seems to be running things.

Hopefully Bo comes along quickly.



We don't know if CS could have been traded for more than the 9th pick at some point. MG could not take roster players back, he needs the cap. Yes, MG should have anticipated the cap going down and I suspect that without a long lock out he may have done more to prepare for this day but in the shortened season there was little he could do. But if we are going to speculate on rumours of what he could have traded for and didn't or couldn't keep in mind he tried to give Ballard away last year and there were no takers. But he should have traded him anyway right?

I read a lot of respect for CS on this site and still a lot of respect for Luongo. At the end of the day it was the right move for where it is situated now.


Funny how last season MG was lambasted for having 9+ million locked up in two goalies yet no one is saying the same thing about NJD. They come out smelling like roses yet they are cap crunched, have 9 million + in two goalies in a year where the cap drops. Yes, I get it is in all likelihood for one year only, but when we said that about the Canucks it didn't matter, it was stupid asset management to EVER have 9 million+ in two goalies and always have a least 4 million in wasted space sit on the bench. How come NJD don't even get a peep of this? Like Maybe they should have made this deal last year? Or they should never have resign Marty to that 2 year deal or....

Having said all of that this is a good deal for both teams moving forward.
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