Should I have swore more?rats19 wrote:Our top 2 scorers of all time are being questioned about their toughness because Daniel refused to respond to marchand and and his repeated punching. Daniel made the decision..a snap decision to draw a penalty instead. Turns out it didn't work and he should have fought him. But its bullshit the entire argument has no merit.
You can't be soft and tough as nails at the same time.
Re-sign the Sedins thread
Moderator: Referees
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
Silence intelligence so stupid isn’t offended….
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
Fucken' eh Ratsterrats19 wrote:Should I have swore more?rats19 wrote:Our top 2 scorers of all time are being questioned about their toughness because Daniel refused to respond to marchand and and his repeated punching. Daniel made the decision..a snap decision to draw a penalty instead. Turns out it didn't work and he should have fought him. But its bullshit the entire argument has no merit.
You can't be soft and tough as nails at the same time.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
- 5thhorseman
- MVP
- Posts: 2391
- Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:04 am
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
Sorry guys, I appreciate all your arguments but I still cringe every time I see the Sedins involved in some after the whistle melee. I have no doubt of their toughness, heart, or contribution, and if they don't re-sign this team is going to be circling the drain, but the bottom line is that they can't allow themselves to be bullied. Like Torts says, we need to show a bit more stiffness, and for me that means not skating backwards when the pushing begins, and certainly responding when punched. I don't think it was a "snap decision" by Daniel, it's natural for him to shy away from a fight and he'll automatically react the same way every time.
I'll stop flogging this horse now.
I'll stop flogging this horse now.
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
I understand why they didn't "fight back" in the past, although in the Marchand case it obviously didn't work out.5thhorseman wrote:Sorry guys, I appreciate all your arguments but I still cringe every time I see the Sedins involved in some after the whistle melee. I have no doubt of their toughness, heart, or contribution, and if they don't re-sign this team is going to be circling the drain, but the bottom line is that they can't allow themselves to be bullied. Like Torts says, we need to show a bit more stiffness, and for me that means not skating backwards when the pushing begins, and certainly responding when punched. I don't think it was a "snap decision" by Daniel, it's natural for him to shy away from a fight and he'll automatically react the same way every time.
I'll stop flogging this horse now.
But I mean, people don't expect Pat Kane or whoever to truly fight their own battles beyond giving the odd whack back am I right? I mean if you're going to throw the Marchand thing in Daniel's face like another cheap rabbit punch, I think the far more serious indictment goes to the rest of the team (although I am confident they were all just following the mandate to get as many PPs as they could - even though the first unit was in tatters). I mean, where were they when their star player was being pushed around?
Anyway I agree that more stiffness is called for in the future, I'm curious to see what that means to the Sedins but I am pretty damn sure I know what it means for their teammates.
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
That is great news H-Dub that the Sedins are looking for multi-year extensions that should be signed before training camp. I think the last thing the team needs this year is a media driven sideshow about whether or not the Sedins are done in Vancouver.
As far as the Sedins being tough, I think they are as tough as most other superstar leaders in this league. Would I have loved to have seen Danny drop Marchand with a few haymakers? Hell yeah, but I don’t think that incident was the reason we lost the series. In the future, I don’t think Danny would take shots like that from the rat faced bastard.
The Tortorella talk about “stiffness” has me interested. I’m not sure what that means for the Sedins, but I think it means being harder to play against and taking less BS.
As far as the Sedins being tough, I think they are as tough as most other superstar leaders in this league. Would I have loved to have seen Danny drop Marchand with a few haymakers? Hell yeah, but I don’t think that incident was the reason we lost the series. In the future, I don’t think Danny would take shots like that from the rat faced bastard.
The Tortorella talk about “stiffness” has me interested. I’m not sure what that means for the Sedins, but I think it means being harder to play against and taking less BS.
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
I hope it means he will loosen the reins a bit on retaliation, which AV was notorious for forbidding. Its all well and good for Gillis to acquire big, bruising guys, but if AV benches Kassian for any penalty taken then those guys are less effective.herb wrote:The Tortorella talk about “stiffness” has me interested. I’m not sure what that means for the Sedins, but I think it means being harder to play against and taking less BS.
As DBR says, the Sedins shouldn't need to fight Marchand in that situation. Someone else should come up and smack the little rat around and put him in his place. I believe that this was a directive from AV and not a reflection of the players and it bit us in the ass big time - not only did the Canucks not get the obvious call in those situations in the Finals, but they got a reputation as whiners and divers and got fewer Power Plays in the two seasons since. You never saw "tough" "gritty" team captains fight, other than once or twice a year - i.e. Iginla, Lecavalier, Toews, etc. It is awesome when it happens, but it stands out in people's minds because it is such a rare occurrence.
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
I doubt most people think that is the reason we lost either. However, to most it was 'the' definitive sign that Vancouver had run out of gas, for whatever reason. I tend to agree.herb wrote:Would I have loved to have seen Danny drop Marchand with a few haymakers? Hell yeah, but I don’t think that incident was the reason we lost the series.
I'd also agree with dbr's assessment that the weight should fall on the team. Where was ANY retaliation? Where was ANY response? Where was ANY tit-for-tat? Nobody stepped up to any of Boston's bullshit in lieu of the zebras leaving their whistles in the change room.
Anywhoo... people should know by now that the Sedins are not chippy, reactionary players after the whistle and they will never be. Their effectiveness has always been eating up clock in the offensive zone and scoring by capitalizing on dropped coverage... usually as a result of constant offensive pressure.
If they continue to be effective in this way... why would you not continue to welcome them back? There are certainly more defficient players on this team, that in theory would be much easier to replace/upgrade on an open market, and even from the farm team.
Hopefully Torts will employ a bit of "earn your spot" competition... god knows AV really had his favorites.
~Your Friendly Neighborhood Killer Whale
-
- CC Veteran
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:26 pm
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
+1 This!dbr wrote: I understand why they didn't "fight back" in the past, although in the Marchand case it obviously didn't work out.
But I mean, people don't expect Pat Kane or whoever to truly fight their own battles beyond giving the odd whack back am I right? I mean if you're going to throw the Marchand thing in Daniel's face like another cheap rabbit punch, I think the far more serious indictment goes to the rest of the team (although I am confident they were all just following the mandate to get as many PPs as they could - even though the first unit was in tatters). I mean, where were they when their star player was being pushed around?
No one in Chicago expects Pat Kane to step up and defend himself - although he takes very little actual abuse because he is so damn slippery. If someone touched Kane after a whistle the entire Chicago team would be on his back. That mentality/approach has been lacking on the Canucks. The Sedins would be much more effective if opposing players knew they would have their heads taken off for touching them - which is why I remain a fan on playing them with Kassian.
It is a challenge though, because there are always TWO Sedins on the ice - which makes for fewer players available to immediately step in if liberties are taken. I would note, however, that I say both Herik and Daniel - Henrik in particular - retaliating on their own more frequently last season.
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
I agree; it does seem as though AV’s mantra of playing between the whistles, turning the other cheek and letting the refs handle it was a mistake. Some players feed off of that raw energy that comes from the emotional aspects of professional hockey. Maybe AV’s philosophy was holding some of these guys back Bieksa, Kesler and Kassian in particular seem to thrive on raw emotion and adrenaline.ESQ wrote:I hope it means he will loosen the reins a bit on retaliation, which AV was notorious for forbidding. Its all well and good for Gillis to acquire big, bruising guys, but if AV benches Kassian for any penalty taken then those guys are less effective.
I hope Torts comes in with a clean slate and no preconceived notions of who plays with whom. I want to see an open competition in training camp, and a real re-evaluation of the team from the coaching staff. Just because player x has been successful in the past playing with player y, that shouldn’t mean the coaches don’t re-evaluate line-up decisions from time to time.
- Hockey Widow
- CC Legend
- Posts: 16115
- Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
It is a balancing act with respect to Torts loosening the reigns. Keep in mind his teams are typically in the category of least penalized. So somewhere between offering an appropriate response and avoiding a man short situation you have to find a way to be tougher. Make sure the other guy gets a penalty too, no lazy retaliation shots.
The only HW the Canucks need
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
Be the aggressor.Hockey Widow wrote: no lazy retaliation shots.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
If Torres and Lapierre both had two gwg's in the SCF, how come we didn't win?The_Pauser wrote: Torres and Lapierre both had 2 GWG's in the SCF.
Whatever you do, always give 100 %!
Except when donating blood.
Except when donating blood.
- Hockey Widow
- CC Legend
- Posts: 16115
- Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:52 pm
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
Good pick up Per. LOLPer wrote:If Torres and Lapierre both had two gwg's in the SCF, how come we didn't win?The_Pauser wrote: Torres and Lapierre both had 2 GWG's in the SCF.
The only HW the Canucks need
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
If AV called a time out and switched goalies, Marchand would never of done what he did.
Re: Re-sign the Sedins thread
In hindsight it was pretty brave of Daniel to take that humiliating beating in the hopes of getting a PP in a game long-decided.
I'm sure he wanted to fight back, he was just valiantly taking one for the team.
It's really AV's fault for instituting a strict no-punching-back policy on our top players. That bastard.
I'm also sure there are other guys in the league with As on their sweater who would have sat there and taken it the exact same way in a game where there was nothing to gain from a power play. Just because I can't think of a single one doesn't mean they aren't out there.
I'm sure he wanted to fight back, he was just valiantly taking one for the team.
It's really AV's fault for instituting a strict no-punching-back policy on our top players. That bastard.
I'm also sure there are other guys in the league with As on their sweater who would have sat there and taken it the exact same way in a game where there was nothing to gain from a power play. Just because I can't think of a single one doesn't mean they aren't out there.
Chairman of the Jim Benning Appreciation Society