Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:34 am

Pretty much. Can't take a big bad contract back unless we move a few more big ones out like Ballard and Booth, but apparently we can't buy Booth out so I guess we could buy Ballard out and trade lets say Edler for a draft pick. Would that make the room?
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby dbr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:48 am

RoyalDude wrote:Pretty much. Can't take a big bad contract back unless we move a few more big ones out like Ballard and Booth, but apparently we can't buy Booth out so I guess we could buy Ballard out and trade lets say Edler for a draft pick. Would that make the room?


Assuming:

-Compliance buyout for Ballard
-$3.25m for Tanev, Schroeder and Weise combined
-Lack is our backup
-No other new faces

Then the Canucks are at $6.18m in cap space if they move Luongo for nothing - with probably 2 forwards and 3 defensemen left to add.

You're probably talking about 6th/7th/8th defensemen so you can probably put them at an average of say $900k, and one of the forwards is probably a fourth liner so let's say he takes up $750k.

That would leave the team room for one forward making about $2.7m.
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:50 am

The new CBA allows cash and cap space to be traded doesn't it?

So why would then Canucks buyout Luongo at $1.5M for the next 18 years if they can try and move him and offer to pay $1.5M of his contract for the remaining 9 years of his deal?

This would entice teams like FLA and NYI who wouldn't mind the cap hit but don't have the bank roll the Canucks have.

Canucks save half the cost of the buyout and FLA gets Luongo for a savings of $1.5M per year.
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby dbr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:59 am

Aaronp18 wrote:The new CBA allows cash and cap space to be traded doesn't it?

So why would then Canucks buyout Luongo at $1.5M for the next 18 years if they can try and move him and offer to pay $1.5M of his contract for the remaining 9 years of his deal?

This would entice teams like FLA and NYI who wouldn't mind the cap hit but don't have the bank roll the Canucks have.

Canucks save half the cost of the buyout and FLA gets Luongo for a savings of $1.5M per year.


Well the conventional wisdom is that since the Canucks lose $13.5m in cap space over 9 years, it's worse than losing more cash and no cap space.

That being said, holding onto $1.3m (and change) out of his cap space means it brings his actual salary down under $5m for the remainder of the deal, and his cap hit down below $4m - if there isn't a market for Luongo and retaining that salary and cap hit creates one and allows us to get a substantial return... I'd think long and hard on it.

IMO, in four or five years ~$1.3m in dead cap space isn't even going to seem significant.
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby ESQ » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:00 am

Lancer wrote:Vinny bought out.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=426423

Doubt that they'd use the space to take on another big, long contract, but peace of mind in net doesn't come cheap.

...and so it begins. :)

I'm shocked Vinny got bought out. There must be a tacit agreement for him to go away for a year then come back to Tampa on a cheap deal.

After seeing that happen, I have to admit a Luongo buyout is looking like more of a possibility.

People have been saying there's a waiver window for compliance buyouts, I haven't seen this mentioned anywere, can anyone verify that a compliance buyout has to start with waivers?
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:08 am

dbr wrote:Well the conventional wisdom is that since the Canucks lose $13.5m in cap space over 9 years, it's worse than losing more cash and no cap space.

That being said, holding onto $1.3m (and change) out of his cap space means it brings his actual salary down under $5m for the remainder of the deal, and his cap hit down below $4m - if there isn't a market for Luongo and retaining that salary and cap hit creates one and allows us to get a substantial return... I'd think long and hard on it.

IMO, in four or five years ~$1.3m in dead cap space isn't even going to seem significant.


I don't completely understand the whole trading of cap space and salary but can the Canucks not simply pay some of Luo's salary while the whole cap hit of $5.3M is applied to the team that takes Luo?

This I would see as a benefit to team like FLA and NYI who have issues getting to the cap floor sometimes. And in the next few years if the cap goes back up as anticipated it will become more valuable that way.
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby dbr » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:18 am

Nope. You can retain a percentage of a contract you trade away, and you are stuck with that percentage of both the salary and the cap hit.

So if we retained 25% of Luongo's contract we'd be on the hook for $1.333m on the cap until he retires, but $1.675m cash as long as he's making $6.7m, then substantially less as his salary drops (again until he retires).

I would assume we'd also be on the hook for cap recapture for saving $0.34m on the cap while he earns more than his cap hit. :roll:
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby ORCA » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:20 am

ESQ wrote:
Lancer wrote:I'm shocked Vinny got bought out.

So it's settled then...

In a stunning twist, and years of redemption at stake...I woke up this morning to see Spidey finally has a chance at seeing his childhood dream come to fruition. :drunk:

bring on the fantasy line-up threads! :wave:
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:29 am

dbr wrote:Nope. You can retain a percentage of a contract you trade away, and you are stuck with that percentage of both the salary and the cap hit.

So if we retained 25% of Luongo's contract we'd be on the hook for $1.333m on the cap until he retires, but $1.675m cash as long as he's making $6.7m, then substantially less as his salary drops (again until he retires).

I would assume we'd also be on the hook for cap recapture for saving $0.34m on the cap while he earns more than his cap hit. :roll:


Ah, I see.

I still see this as a viable option depending on what we get back. Someone on an entry level deal or high draft pick so we won't have to pay a larger contract for a few years until the cap goes back up.

And lets face it Luo is never retiring, he will develop groin issues around the age of 39-40 that will not allow him to play any further.
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:42 am

Could be done with Florida. They might be all giddy from drafting jones or drouin or Barkov or McKinnon and so may be in a giving mood and give us say Biugstad if we take on some Lou's salary

I ain't that hopeful. It will go down like this -
Mike 'Asleep At The Wheel' Gillis will waive him on July 3rd after exhausting all avenues pleading with a GM to help him get out of the pinch he's in. And once all 29 other GMs say no to the waive, on July 4th Aquamarine gets out the cheque book and buys him out. As soon as that is done the vultures Will circle Luongo and throw him offers.

The other GM's got a viscious crystall ball and are not about to do Mike a favor. Mike folds his cards
Walks away from the table greatly humbled.
Last edited by RoyalDude on Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby Arachnid » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:42 am

ORCA wrote:
ESQ wrote:
Lancer wrote:I'm shocked Vinny got bought out.

So it's settled then...

In a stunning twist, and years of redemption at stake...I woke up this morning to see Spidey finally has a chance at seeing his childhood dream come to fruition. :drunk:

bring on the fantasy line-up threads! :wave:


Wot tha foc...who's sock puppet are you?

My childhood fantasy is to see you in the Room :mex:
There is no such thing as climate change...there is no such thing as climate change...there is such thing as climate change...
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby ORCA » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:11 am

Arachnid wrote:Wot tha foc...who's sock puppet are you?

My childhood fantasy is to see you in the Room :mex:


Thats terrifying...

Wasnt it you that wanted Vinny as a Canuck sooo badly? (i'm talking YEARS ago on old CC)
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby Arachnid » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:27 am

ORCA wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Wot tha foc...who's sock puppet are you?

My childhood fantasy is to see you in the Room :mex:


Thats terrifying...

Wasnt it you that wanted Vinny as a Canuck sooo badly? (i'm talking YEARS ago on old CC)


What old CC? It never existed.

I never wanted VL on our team, not my kinda player. Yzerman, Sakic yes, not a Frenchie to lead us.
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby Arachnid » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:28 am

RoyalDude wrote:Could be done with Florida. They might be all giddy from drafting jones or drouin or Barkov or McKinnon and so may be in a giving mood and give us say Biugstad if we take on some Lou's salary

I ain't that hopeful. It will go down like this -
Mike 'Asleep At The Wheel' Gillis will waive him on July 3rd after exhausting all avenues pleading with a GM to help him get out of the pinch he's in. And once all 29 other GMs say no to the waive, on July 4th Aquamarine gets out the cheque book and buys him out. As soon as that is done the vultures Will circle Luongo and throw him offers.

The other GM's got a viscious crystall ball and are not about to do Mike a favor. Mike folds his cards
Walks away from the table greatly humbled.


I agree

:eh:
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Re: Daddy needs a new pair of shoes, so buy me out baby...

Postby ORCA » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:41 am

Arachnid wrote:I never wanted VL on our team, not my kinda player. Yzerman, Sakic yes, not a Frenchie to lead us.


:whistle:
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