Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby herb » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:52 pm

Kowch wrote:Plus there's no state income tax, and his wife is from here. Pretty sure it wasn't a hockey decision :)


That's my point!

The income tax thing doesn't really make that much of a difference. He doesn't earn all that income in Florida. You pay tax primarily based upon where the income is earned, so he'll pay tax all over the damn place. Taxation for pro athletes is really complicated.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:53 pm

herb wrote:
Kowch wrote:Plus there's no state income tax, and his wife is from here. Pretty sure it wasn't a hockey decision :)


That's my point!

The income tax thing doesn't really make that much of a difference. He doesn't earn all that income in Florida. You pay tax primarily based upon where the income is earned, so he'll pay tax all over the damn place. Taxation for pro athletes is really complicated.



Is that true?
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:06 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
herb wrote:
Kowch wrote:Plus there's no state income tax, and his wife is from here. Pretty sure it wasn't a hockey decision :)


That's my point!

The income tax thing doesn't really make that much of a difference. He doesn't earn all that income in Florida. You pay tax primarily based upon where the income is earned, so he'll pay tax all over the damn place. Taxation for pro athletes is really complicated.



Is that true?


http://www.tsn.ca/talent/westhead-why-m ... e-1.106798

Yes and no. Where a player spends a majority of their time does factor into it. Luongo certainly comes out ahead living in Florida as opposed to BC.

According to that, Luongo will pay about $2.7M in taxes on a $6.7M salary (41.57%).
The Sedins will pay $3.183M in taxes on a $7M salary (45.5% tax rate).
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby herb » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:23 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
herb wrote:
Kowch wrote:Plus there's no state income tax, and his wife is from here. Pretty sure it wasn't a hockey decision :)


That's my point!

The income tax thing doesn't really make that much of a difference. He doesn't earn all that income in Florida. You pay tax primarily based upon where the income is earned, so he'll pay tax all over the damn place. Taxation for pro athletes is really complicated.



Is that true?


Yes.

Taxation bills for athletes are super complex. There's literally just a few tax accountants who are experts in that particular niche.

Essentially, an athlete will owe income tax in every state and province they played in or "earned" income in that has a state/provincial income tax. Some states have special taxes on visiting pro athletes

Playing for a Florida based team means you will play half your games in Florida, since that's where the home games are played, but the other half of the games you play are in like 20 other states/provinces that all have their own taxation rules. So there will be a tax advantage to playing for the Panthers but it's not as big of an advantage as some outlets seem to make it out to be.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:49 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if it goes deeper than that. Because NHL players are not paid by the game, but rather bi-weekly payments spread over the course of the season, they are technically paid by the day. So if a team spends 3 days in city X, they could be liable for 3 days of taxation at that city.

Again, I'm sure there are a lot of tax write-offs and loopholes to be used. Florida certainly has its appeal, Kessel lives there in the offseason and I'm sure some of that has to do with the tax benefits that can be associated with July 1st signing bonuses.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Strangelove » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:36 pm

Mondi wrote:Where's Doc?

Schneider

GP: 3
W: 3
L: 0
OTL: 0
SAV%: .937
GAA: 2.00

Let's check back on this one later...



LOL a few hours later Schneider's numbers are now:

Schneider

GP: 3
W: 3
L: 1
OTL: 0
SAV%: .909 (30th in the league)
GAA: 2.96 (34th in the league)

... and trending downwards.

Yup, he's starting to panic as it sinks in that he's finally a #1 goaltender!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby SKYO » Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:08 pm

Betamax wrote:
Aaronp18 wrote:You know that article was from June 29th 2013 right?


duh, yeah ... and from that article:

The move was actually made last summer and this will be the first draft with Crawford at the helm.


Therefore, Delorme was deployed to scout WHL primarily during the 2013 draft year where the Canucks selected @H_S_9 . In 2014 it was @Jake_Virtanen . :mex:


Yup things have changed dramatically since Delorme was deployed out west still with the title of head scout, but it's just a title, as Crawford is now the main scout, now we got hella prospects up the ying yang, with no room for em haha.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby herb » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:29 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:It wouldn't surprise me if it goes deeper than that.


Oh I'm sure. Multi jurisdictional tax issues are messy.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Vader » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:59 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:It wouldn't surprise me if it goes deeper than that. Because NHL players are not paid by the game, but rather bi-weekly payments spread over the course of the season, they are technically paid by the day. So if a team spends 3 days in city X, they could be liable for 3 days of taxation at that city.

Again, I'm sure there are a lot of tax write-offs and loopholes to be used. Florida certainly has its appeal, Kessel lives there in the offseason and I'm sure some of that has to do with the tax benefits that can be associated with July 1st signing bonuses.


I'm a CMA, certainly not a tax expert by any stretch, but I do have a cursory understanding of the principals...

At a high level, world income is taxed in the jursidiction a person is resident for tax purposes for 183 days or more. That's why many Canucks have residences in Point Roberts - i.e. Messier / Mogilny were a couple of examples and there are likely more from the current roster.

Now, if you're a BC school teacher who spends summers in Point Roberts there would be no tax advantage - there is no world income - it's all Canadian based.

But if you're working (playing hockey) in various US states and Canada like an NHL Player, you would pay taxes in both Canada and the US but receive a credit for taxes paid in the country you are a non-resident. So you may be a resident for tax purposes in the US and would declare your whole income in the US, but would also pay taxes in Canada and would receive a credit against your US taxes owed for the taxes paid in Canada.

So, just because a signing bonus is paid on July 1st and you happen to be in Florida, doesn't shelter it from taxes in Canada and vice versa.

Being paid by the game, daily, weekly, etc would have no impact

But as mentioned by others earlier, it is not quite this straight forward and very complex

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/6-must-know-tax-facts-for-canadians-earning-abroad-1.1167892
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Topper » Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:33 am

As was explained to me when I was an expat. The principal of taxation is that "the monies are taxed where the benefit is received". The jurisdiction being where the benefit of the work or service is received not where the monies are paid.

Vader's example works well for for Federal taxes where tax treaties exist. The complication becomes when state/provincial taxes are involved.

Often part of a teams agreements with their host state (likely in with stadium tax concessions) are agreements involving income taxes for domiciled team and visiting team players and staff.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby SKYO » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:17 am

Vader wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:It wouldn't surprise me if it goes deeper than that. Because NHL players are not paid by the game, but rather bi-weekly payments spread over the course of the season, they are technically paid by the day. So if a team spends 3 days in city X, they could be liable for 3 days of taxation at that city.

Again, I'm sure there are a lot of tax write-offs and loopholes to be used. Florida certainly has its appeal, Kessel lives there in the offseason and I'm sure some of that has to do with the tax benefits that can be associated with July 1st signing bonuses.


I'm a CMA, certainly not a tax expert by any stretch, but I do have a cursory understanding of the principals...

At a high level, world income is taxed in the jursidiction a person is resident for tax purposes for 183 days or more. That's why many Canucks have residences in Point Roberts - i.e. Messier / Mogilny were a couple of examples and there are likely more from the current roster.

Now, if you're a BC school teacher who spends summers in Point Roberts there would be no tax advantage - there is no world income - it's all Canadian based.

But if you're working (playing hockey) in various US states and Canada like an NHL Player, you would pay taxes in both Canada and the US but receive a credit for taxes paid in the country you are a non-resident. So you may be a resident for tax purposes in the US and would declare your whole income in the US, but would also pay taxes in Canada and would receive a credit against your US taxes owed for the taxes paid in Canada.

So, just because a signing bonus is paid on July 1st and you happen to be in Florida, doesn't shelter it from taxes in Canada and vice versa.

Being paid by the game, daily, weekly, etc would have no impact

But as mentioned by others earlier, it is not quite this straight forward and very complex

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/6-must-know-tax-facts-for-canadians-earning-abroad-1.1167892


So not much has changed hah
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Vader » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:37 am

SKYO wrote:
Vader wrote:
....

But if you're working (playing hockey) in various US states and Canada like an NHL Player, you would pay taxes in both Canada and the US but receive a credit for taxes paid in the country you are a non-resident. So you may be a resident for tax purposes in the US and would declare your whole income in the US, but would also pay taxes in Canada and would receive a credit against your US taxes owed for the taxes paid in Canada.
....


So not much has changed hah


Skyo....resident tax and treaty expert :D
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Topper » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:21 am

Vader wrote:
SKYO wrote:
Vader wrote:
....

But if you're working (playing hockey) in various US states and Canada like an NHL Player, you would pay taxes in both Canada and the US but receive a credit for taxes paid in the country you are a non-resident. So you may be a resident for tax purposes in the US and would declare your whole income in the US, but would also pay taxes in Canada and would receive a credit against your US taxes owed for the taxes paid in Canada.
....


So not much has changed hah


Skyo....resident tax and treaty expert :D

Something else they taught at the residential schools.
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby Strangelove » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:42 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Mondi wrote:Where's Doc?

Luongo

GP: 3
W: 0
L: 2
OTL: 1
SAV%: .870
GAA: 3.78



Schneider

GP: 3
W: 3
L: 0
OTL: 0
SAV%: .937
GAA: 2.00

Let's check back on this one later...



LOL a few hours later Schneider's numbers are now:

Schneider

GP: 3
W: 3
L: 1
OTL: 0
SAV%: .909 (30th in the league)
GAA: 2.96 (34th in the league)

... and trending downwards.

Yup, he's starting to panic as it sinks in that he's finally a #1 goaltender!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


.... and the VERY NEXT DAY:

Luongo

GP: 4
W: 1
L: 2
OTL: 1
SAV%: .905
GAA: 2.67


... and trending upwards.

ImageImageImage

OMG Mondi, WOT A SCHMUCK!!!

Yeah, ya prolly shoulda waited a while longer bro. :mrgreen:

Got a house full of people but had to log on to say that....
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Re: Luongo and Schneider Revisited (or is it continued?)

Postby SKYO » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:52 pm

Topper wrote:
Vader wrote:
SKYO wrote:
Vader wrote:
....

But if you're working (playing hockey) in various US states and Canada like an NHL Player, you would pay taxes in both Canada and the US but receive a credit for taxes paid in the country you are a non-resident. So you may be a resident for tax purposes in the US and would declare your whole income in the US, but would also pay taxes in Canada and would receive a credit against your US taxes owed for the taxes paid in Canada.
....


So not much has changed hah


Skyo....resident tax and treaty expert :D

Something else they taught at the residential schools.


So you're learning topper, good to hear for once.
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