Coaches canned

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coco_canuck
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Re: Coaches canned

Post by coco_canuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:22 am

ukcanuck wrote: Perhaps and I am being devils advocate here to some degree, When its Gillis' turn to walk the plank, there won't be a line up of teams looking to grab what were so quick to let go...
Well, coaches are recycled a lot more frequently than GMs.

AV is a very good coach, one I've defended quite a bit but what this post-season showed is that he lost his handle on putting his team in the best position to win, and his coaching moves didn't pay off.

He failed to effectively match-up his lines vs the Sharks, whereas McLellan did an excellent job exploiting match-ups, especially in San Jose.

The line combinations, D-pairs and decisions on the starting goalie really blew up in his face vs San Jose. It was eerily similar to last year's series vs the Kings where almost every decision AV made was the wrong one.

These things can happen with coaches after a while. It's not really an indictment on AV's failures perse, but a product of the reality that AV seemed to have lost his touch with this team, at least when it came to playoff game plans and strategy execution.

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ukcanuck
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Re: Coaches canned

Post by ukcanuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:46 am

coco_canuck wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: Perhaps and I am being devils advocate here to some degree, When its Gillis' turn to walk the plank, there won't be a line up of teams looking to grab what were so quick to let go...
Well, coaches are recycled a lot more frequently than GMs.

AV is a very good coach, one I've defended quite a bit but what this post-season showed is that he lost his handle on putting his team in the best position to win, and his coaching moves didn't pay off.

He failed to effectively match-up his lines vs the Sharks, whereas McLellan did an excellent job exploiting match-ups, especially in San Jose.

The line combinations, D-pairs and decisions on the starting goalie really blew up in his face vs San Jose. It was eerily similar to last year's series vs the Kings where almost every decision AV made was the wrong one.

These things can happen with coaches after a while. It's not really an indictment on AV's failures perse, but a product of the reality that AV seemed to have lost his touch with this team, at least when it came to playoff game plans and strategy execution.
The only real complaint I have about AV is that he is too much a technical coach and not enough an emotional coach.
I think he works hard behind the scenes to give the team every edge he can and I think he expects players to bring that work ethic too and has little time for immature players whi dont (like O'Brian for example,) however, the stories of him leaving the rah rah stuff to the leadership in the dressing room is what I think is what is not working here.
First off if you leave the players to work out the dynamics in the room you invite cliques, and at the end of the day, hockey is an emotional game and these are young dudes for the most part. I think on this team AV was done and ironically enough, I think with all the veterans on the rangers, I think his style will do well there.

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herb
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Re: Coaches canned

Post by herb » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:50 am

At the end of the day for me, AV’s downfall was his overreliance on his veteran players and on what had worked in the past. For the past two years, he wasn’t able to adapt to how the team personnel had changed since 2011.

When it became obvious that certain aspects of the team’s game were not producing as expected, like on the PP, he always went back to what worked n 2011; the twins with Kesler and Edler.

AV relied heavily on Kevin Bieksa as one of his trusted old veterans, who has struggled when not with a consistent partner. On the other hand, newcomer Jason Garrison seemed to take forever to get in the coaching staff’s good graces, despite being our most consistent two-way defenseman.

I was really not happy with AV dumping Kassian off the twins line, when they looked so good early on in the season. It was clear as day this team needed a new look up front, and that Kassian was the guy management was hoping would be able to provide that spark, but as soon as that line struggled AV went back to the twins with Burrows and never looked back even when those three struggled.

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by ukcanuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:06 pm

Yeah there is that tendency to fall back on what you know, but I wasn't too bothered by that so much. It's a byproduct of the win now mentality. Vancouver as a market has had no sympathy for losing and a smart coach isn't going to play around with uncertainty if he wants to stick around.
It'll be interesting how patient the faithful are going to be going forward. Will we call for blood right off the bat or will it take a three game losing streak...

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by herb » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:36 pm

ukcanuck wrote:Yeah there is that tendency to fall back on what you know, but I wasn't too bothered by that so much. It's a byproduct of the win now mentality. Vancouver as a market has had no sympathy for losing and a smart coach isn't going to play around with uncertainty if he wants to stick around.
I get that, and I’m sure the shortened season played a role as well, but I think this core group can benefit greatly from some different looks and a few new personnel up front. I was hopeful Kassian could provide more of that this year, and he did look promising early on.

Personally, I think Kassian is huge in any medium term future this organization has. If he is a flop, that leaves a big hole in our forward depth going forward and means we have to continue to rely too much on the ageing Sedins and Burrows as well as an injury prone Kesler.

Kassian absolutely needs to be a top six player because there isn’t much else coming down the pipeline in the next two to three years outside of Jensen and Gaunce. I think it should have been a priority to get Kassian going at all costs, even if it meant moving Burrows down a line, especially given the success Zach had early on with the twins. I think the coaches could have done more to help enable more success, which is a top priority on their job descriptions.

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by Arachnid » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:47 pm

ukcanuck wrote:I think the point I'm trying to make is that the fact that AV landed on his feet with a nice 5 year contract might prove that the "mistakes" that he was being blamed for here by some might just be overblown a little.

Perhaps and I am being devils advocate here to some degree, When its Gillis' turn to walk the plank, there won't be a line up of teams looking to grab what were so quick to let go...
Well that's just poppycock :P

How can you say this if AV/NYR hasn't had time to prove themselves? Or MG hiring a coach of his choosing?

It's just pure speculation and expected from someone selling junk bonds ilk not your status :D
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by ukcanuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:33 pm

herb wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:Yeah there is that tendency to fall back on what you know, but I wasn't too bothered by that so much. It's a byproduct of the win now mentality. Vancouver as a market has had no sympathy for losing and a smart coach isn't going to play around with uncertainty if he wants to stick around.
I get that, and I’m sure the shortened season played a role as well, but I think this core group can benefit greatly from some different looks and a few new personnel up front. I was hopeful Kassian could provide more of that this year, and he did look promising early on.

Personally, I think Kassian is huge in any medium term future this organization has. If he is a flop, that leaves a big hole in our forward depth going forward and means we have to continue to rely too much on the ageing Sedins and Burrows as well as an injury prone Kesler.

Kassian absolutely needs to be a top six player because there isn’t much else coming down the pipeline in the next two to three years outside of Jensen and Gaunce. I think it should have been a priority to get Kassian going at all costs, even if it meant moving Burrows down a line, especially given the success Zach had early on with the twins. I think the coaches could have done more to help enable more success, which is a top priority on their job descriptions.

I completely agree with you on kassian, and I think Gillis knows it too, it's probably the difference between they way the team reacted to OB being In the bar too much compared to kassian. Additionally, I think it might come out eventually that it was the reason that they pulled him off the first line too. why put too much pressure on him now when we werent going to truly contend anyway. Let him grow into that player he is teasing us to be, without letting him feel like he has to carry the team with the Sedins.

This coming season with a couple more kids through out the line up and a coach that doesn't leave the locker room to a clique of senior players he should have a great opportunity to really grow into the new generation of the Canucks

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by ukcanuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:34 pm

Arachnid wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:I think the point I'm trying to make is that the fact that AV landed on his feet with a nice 5 year contract might prove that the "mistakes" that he was being blamed for here by some might just be overblown a little.

Perhaps and I am being devils advocate here to some degree, When its Gillis' turn to walk the plank, there won't be a line up of teams looking to grab what were so quick to let go...
Well that's just poppycock :P

How can you say this if AV/NYR hasn't had time to prove themselves? Or MG hiring a coach of his choosing?

It's just pure speculation and expected from someone selling junk bonds ilk not your status :D
Yeah I thought I give this a try, see how it works...

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by Arachnid » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:50 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:I think the point I'm trying to make is that the fact that AV landed on his feet with a nice 5 year contract might prove that the "mistakes" that he was being blamed for here by some might just be overblown a little.

Perhaps and I am being devils advocate here to some degree, When its Gillis' turn to walk the plank, there won't be a line up of teams looking to grab what were so quick to let go...
Well that's just poppycock :P

How can you say this if AV/NYR hasn't had time to prove themselves? Or MG hiring a coach of his choosing?

It's just pure speculation and expected from someone selling junk bonds ilk not your status :D
Yeah I thought I give this a try, see how it works...
Thanks RDCanuck! :D
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)

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ukcanuck
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Re: Coaches canned

Post by ukcanuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:04 pm

Ok , we'll back to the drawing board then ...

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by Rumsfeld » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:36 pm

Everyone just dry off.

Torts will not be our coach. If that goofy little hamsterfaced smugfuck is our coach this season I will personally drive CFP to the ferry.
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Re: Coaches canned

Post by Meds » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:51 pm

ukcanuck wrote:I think the point I'm trying to make is that the fact that AV landed on his feet with a nice 5 year contract might prove that the "mistakes" that he was being blamed for here by some might just be overblown a little.
Time will tell.

The Rangers boast a few more power forwards in their top 9 than the Canucks did. There are certainly some net driving and crashing skaters suiting up for the Rags. If the Rangers become a possession/cycle team that limits the net presence to one guy and the other guys coming in way late for rebounds......well that will tell us if it was Vigneault's gameplan that was playing such inept, and soft, perimeter hockey, or if it was the players themselves.

We will see I suppose.

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by Rumsfeld » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:57 pm

All the areas where this team needs improvement are the areas where Torts is weakest.

Power play, breakouts, offensive forecheck, GOAL-SCORING... what the hell man.
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vic
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Re: Coaches canned

Post by vic » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:58 pm

ukcanuck wrote:I think the point I'm trying to make is that the fact that AV landed on his feet with a nice 5 year contract might prove that the "mistakes" that he was being blamed for here by some might just be overblown a little.
Even more surprising is that is happened in NY, because Glen Sather has allows been known for doing his due diligence and handing out contracts that make sense.

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Re: Coaches canned

Post by $lacker » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:55 pm

Ira Kaufman ‏@IKaufmanTBO 5h
John Tortorella is reportedly in talks with the Canucks about becoming their next coach. Brace yourself, B.C. media, for the coming storm

Tampa Bay scribe... although not sure if he is merely referring to the 2nd interview. A lot of smoke though.

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