Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby FAN » Tue May 28, 2013 5:00 am

Meds wrote:Did you watch much this season?

He's not the fastest guy out there, but he doesn't give much up in the way of mobility when compared to Edler. His skating is actually quite good, he's far more responsible with the puck at the point, can pass just as well, and is positionally far more responsible than Edler. Because of all of these things he doesn't need to be as fast as Edler. Edler's only real upside compared to Garrison is his physically aggressive play.....when he brings it. Edler is a bit better at carrying the puck, but also turns it over far more.

Assuming you have watched the Canucks play this season, you are either overestimating Garrison or underestimating Edler or both. I think that Garrison's mobility is underrated whereas Edler looked almost immobile this season. But I think the Edler of old is a better skater than Garrison and by far the better puck carrier. The stats indicate that Edler turned the puck only two more times than Garrison did this season, but like you I would have thought that Edler turned the puck over more. But that's a function of Garrison having played a real steady and safe game this year compared to Edler who traditionally does carry the puck up ice and certainly tries to do more with the puck than Garrison. Besides, Edler has had bring farts this year. Regardless, Edler turning over the puck is not really a concern IMO.

Meds wrote:My take.....

Skating - Edler.
Positioning - Garrison.
Shooting - Garrison.
Hitting - Edler.
Poise - Garrison.
Passing - Garrison.
Puck Carrying - Edler.
Puck Moving - Garrison.
Consistency - Garrison.


How you came to the conclusion that Garrison is better at passing the puck and moving the puck up ice is beyond me. I don't even remember Garrison making a nice pass or carrying the puck up ice. Granted, Garrison was playing off his backhand a lot since he was playing on the right side so he would often win the puck in the corners and chip the puck up to a forward off his backhand. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Garrison is David Booth-like in terms of passing as I do think Garrison would be much better at making the first pass if he's allowed to play the left side. But there's a reason Garrison averages 16-17 assists a year and Edler's career high was 38 assists. Garrison is simply not that good of a puck moving defenseman and got to the NHL playing a safe game and utilizing his big shot. Garrison can make the all important first pass just fine, but he's not a talented stickhandler so if he doesn't have room to make that first pass he'll make the safe play. Edler on the other hand will carry the puck if the pass isn't there and open up passing lanes. I think virtually all of Garrison's assists came off his shot or second assists.

In short, Edler is good with the puck and Garrison is average at best. I prefer Garrison shooting the puck, but in a nonshooting situation, I want the puck on Edler's stick rather than Garrison's stick. Garrison is better defensively, but Edler is far and away the superior puck moving defensemen.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Reefer2 » Tue May 28, 2013 6:02 am

All I know is that the next 4 months are going to be painful watching MG do nothing more than another year of band aid fixes and no changes to the core. The only person that will be gone it Luongo.

I guess maybe it was ALL AV fault and all they really needed was a coaching change.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Rede » Tue May 28, 2013 9:17 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:LOL you guys are on meth if you think the Lightning will trade the 3rd pick alone for Edler let alone Connolly as well.

Vancouver would have to add their first pick along with Edler to nab just the 3rd overall pick.


If that was all Elder returns on a very cap friendly deal running through his prime years then I just don't trade Edler. I'm just saying unless its a home run like that I don't move him.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Tue May 28, 2013 9:52 am

Rede wrote:If that was all Elder returns on a very cap friendly deal running through his prime years then I just don't trade Edler. I'm just saying unless its a home run like that I don't move him.


This is the mentality I don't understand.

Our team has disappointed year after year. Every year this core group has not lived up to expectations. Over the past two years in particular, scoring and youth have been identified as major areas of concern, yet fans are afraid of losing some of our players in trades to help alleviate these concerns.

I don't get it. You have to give to get.

For the record, I'd do Edler plus our 1st for the 3rd overall pick. This organization needs a new face of the franchise type superstar talent. Drouin, Mackinnon and Jones have the very real potential of becoming NHL superstars. Alex Edler does not, and the 23rd or 24th overall pick likely does not.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby FAN » Tue May 28, 2013 9:58 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:LOL you guys are on meth if you think the Lightning will trade the 3rd pick alone for Edler let alone Connolly as well.

Vancouver would have to add their first pick along with Edler to nab just the 3rd overall pick.

I think that Edler + something like a 2nd would get the deal done. But it's Yzerman. So far, the only deal he is willing to trade assets for are for tall backup goaltenders. :lol:
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Tue May 28, 2013 10:02 am

FAN wrote:I think that Edler + something like a 2nd would get the deal done. But it's Yzerman. So far, the only deal he is willing to trade assets for are for tall backup goaltenders. :lol:


Lack is 6'5". Maybe Stevie Y will bite. :lol:
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Orcasfan » Tue May 28, 2013 10:23 am

Yes, Garrison has a point shot at least the equal of Edler's. But how often have you seen Garrison carry the puck up the ice on the PP? I like him at the point, but he does not have all the offensive tools that Edler has (and I am looking at Edler's play over the last few years, not just this aborted season!). When was the last time you saw Garrison skate 200 feet, through the opponent's D, and score?

One of the reasons Edler is on the 1st unit PP is because of his skating and passing skills. The failure of the PP this year had little to do with Edler. It was the lack of snipers (especially right-shot Kes). All I'm saying is that if Edler is traded, the GM needs to acquire another D with a similar offensive skill-set. Bieksa used to have it, but was also very prone to lazy turn-overs, etc.

And, I agree that a deal to trade Edler and our 1st for Tampa's 3rd pick would be a no-brainer. I can't imagine, however, Yzerman agreeing, mind you! I also agree that just swapping Edler for Connolly is not enough of a return. We would need a pick (2nd?) or another good prospect to sweeten the deal.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby RoyalDude » Tue May 28, 2013 10:25 am

FAN wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:LOL you guys are on meth if you think the Lightning will trade the 3rd pick alone for Edler let alone Connolly as well.

Vancouver would have to add their first pick along with Edler to nab just the 3rd overall pick.

I think that Edler + something like a 2nd would get the deal done. But it's Yzerman. So far, the only deal he is willing to trade assets for are for tall backup goaltenders. :lol:


Come on man! You can't be serious? Give up a chance to draft Drouin, McKinnon, Barkov, Nichushkin for Edler and a 2nd?
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby RoyalDude » Tue May 28, 2013 10:26 am

Orcasfan wrote:
And, I agree that a deal to trade Edler and our 1st for Tampa's 3rd pick would be a no-brainer. I can't imagine, however, Yzerman agreeing, mind you!


Ya think?
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby RoyalDude » Tue May 28, 2013 10:29 am

I think we should completely write off a 27 year old defenseman in Edler who possesses a lot of natural ability, great skating, passing, size, hockey sense, grit etc., that someone like Jason "I can't hit the net" Garrison could only dream of possessing.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Tue May 28, 2013 10:45 am

So, on the one hand, this is a tired core that needs changing.

RoyalDude wrote:Since Gillis plans on icing the same tired group next season as this and last and the seasons before that it will be interesting to see the new coach trying to get these players to play the game differently than the way the have been playing the game their whole lives.

Gillis biggest downfall as a GM is he falls in love with his players and cannot see them for what they really are. That's the Players Agent in him.

I just don't like hearing the line Gillis is towing the last few days about keeping the core intact. This current group bores the shite out of me. Quite a predictable bunch, tired of the re-runs game in game out. New need new faces on the ice not just behind the bench.


And on the other hand, one of our most tradeable assets is untouchable?

RoyalDude wrote:I think we should completely write off a 27 year old defenseman in Edler who possesses a lot of natural ability, great skating, passing, size, hockey sense, grit etc., that someone like Jason "I can't hit the net" Garrison could only dream of possessing.


Seems like you're setting yourself up quite nicely to hammer Gillis no matter which route he takes. If he stands pat, you can damn him for being a player agent who can't see his "tired" players for what they really are. If he makes a trade, he's completing writing off players that have talents others "could only dream of possessing". If Gills trades further futures for help now, you'll hammer the guy for "leaving the cupboards bare".

How can Gillis be expected to substantially improve this team if tradeable assets can't be shipped out of town?
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue May 28, 2013 11:49 am

I trade our first and Edler for Drouin/Mackinnon 10 times out of 10. I like Edler and would like to keep him but you DO NOT pass up a chance to draft a future PPG 18 year old kid who could carry the mail for this team for the next 15 years. I'm not sure I throw in the 1st for Seth Jones however. Edler for Jones is doable but this team needs an impact forward to build around in the worst way.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby SKYO » Tue May 28, 2013 12:36 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I trade our first and Edler for Drouin/Mackinnon 10 times out of 10. I like Edler and would like to keep him but you DO NOT pass up a chance to draft a future PPG 18 year old kid who could carry the mail for this team for the next 15 years. I'm not sure I throw in the 1st for Seth Jones however. Edler for Jones is doable but this team needs an impact forward to build around in the worst way.

No doubt, that trade would be up there with Burke's trades to get/draft both Sedins!
And it would ultimately save MG's hide to boot.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue May 28, 2013 12:59 pm

SKYO wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:I trade our first and Edler for Drouin/Mackinnon 10 times out of 10. I like Edler and would like to keep him but you DO NOT pass up a chance to draft a future PPG 18 year old kid who could carry the mail for this team for the next 15 years. I'm not sure I throw in the 1st for Seth Jones however. Edler for Jones is doable but this team needs an impact forward to build around in the worst way.

No doubt, that trade would be up there with Burke's trades to get/draft both Sedins!
And it would ultimately save MG's hide to boot.


Absolutely you make that deal. I like Jones a lot, but to me the bigger need for this team is an impact forward. Jones could end up being another Eric Johnson. I see both of the forwards as safer and better picks.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Tciso » Tue May 28, 2013 1:24 pm

donlever wrote:
herb wrote: ...because you could miss out on other opportunities.


Right.

Like second line scoring winger and a 3rd line center with size would be as beneficial to the casue as the first liner Tciso refers to.


Granted that there are other options that will give us equivalent value for Edler, but my point (badly made) was that we do need significant return for Edler, and it better be in the value of a solid 1st liner. If we are trying to fill a few holes on the 2nd and 3rd line, we have other less valuable assets to move than a very solid D-man with the potential to be a top 10 defenseman in the next 2-3 years.
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