Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby donlever » Mon May 27, 2013 12:13 pm

CorranHorn wrote:
If you move Edler BEFORE lou then you have be willing to take less back for lou.

ETC


Perhaps beneficial to us in that we can get picks back for Luongo in lieu of physical beings.

Picks we desperately need to fill our cupboards.

Florida for instance, where Luongo clearly wants to go, will have their prospect bucket full after this years draft where they get one of the big three.

Perhaps they can offer us up a couple of juicy draft choices for Roberto?

So if we were to get Couturier with a beneficial cap hit we could also maybe take a bit of Luos contract back as well.

Options.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby dbr » Mon May 27, 2013 12:30 pm

donlever wrote:I'd prefer the Philly deal not only for the reasons you mention but also because I don't want Edler in my division for the next 6 years.

It would be so Canuck luck personified to have him turn into a mini-Lidstrom once he left and haunt us for seasons to come.

Can't take it!!!


:lol:

Well if Topper's right at least trading him to a team with an all-leftie defense corps would mitigate against that risk..

But yeah I'd also prefer not to move Edler for a guy who'd be our third highest-paid forward (which isn't the bad part) who is probably due a 30-50% raise in two seasons.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 1:24 pm

I'm going to contradict myself a bit here and say that I would prefer we get a bigger young skilled centre in return in a potential Edler trade. I'm not saying we should limit our options in terms of trading partners or players we would accept, but keeping in mind that Gaunce put up all kinds of points in the OHL playing wing, I think in a perfect world we’d be getting a guy like Couturier, who would fill all kinds of organizational concerns (a centre, young, cheap, skilled, decent size, etc.).

If we had Kassian, Couturier, Gaunce, Schroeder and Jensen up front, Tanev and Corrado out back, and Schneider in the nets, maybe we wouldn't be considered such an old team anymore! :lol:
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Orcasfan » Mon May 27, 2013 3:09 pm

I see the logic of moving Edler (thanks, herb). But with him gone, there is a bit of a "gap". We won't really have a power play quarterback with the D. I'm sure that the coaches have been trying to groom Edler to fill that role for a couple of years - ever since Ehrhoff left, especially. His success in evolving into that role is certainly debatable at this point. But without him there, who do we have who can be that player? Certainly not Casual Kev! I don't think Garrison has the speed or the skating ability of Edler. If we want to see our PP improve, we really would be better with a bone fide PP quarterback.

I am not confident that Bieksa can play the top pairing for very long. Who knows what Tanev's ceiling is? Certainly not as a PP quarterback, though! As far as Corrado is concerned...we all hope for the best, but we should also be prepared for less, just in case. Once again, that right side is looking shaky. Yes, if we trade Edler for someone like Courturier or Ryan...great. And what happens if Bieksa gets injured (or underperforms)? Gillis really needs to fix this continuing fester on the right side, and, hopefully not just keep his fingers crossed that the solution rests with Tanev and/or Corrado. Ideally, we get a big, good, PP quarterback who shoots right! (just another rabbit that GMMG needs to pull out of his hat!). ;)
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 3:31 pm

^ I see your point about Edler's powerplay and offensive ability, but it's not like we were scoring at a red hot pace 5 on 5 or on the powerplay even with Edler.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Aaronp18 » Mon May 27, 2013 3:39 pm

Edler isn't and never will be the QB of our PP.

He's the right point shot on the PP, of which I have no problem seeing Garrison replace.

Hanks QB's the first PP unit from the half-boards and perhaps with a little more free reign out there he can better use the tools we have.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Orcasfan » Mon May 27, 2013 4:08 pm

I think one of the reasons the PP quarterback is usually designated as a D is because it's that D who leads the rush up the ice from our own end. Granted, if Hank wins the faceoff in the offensive zone, that rushing D role is not so important. But I think you still need a D on the blue line acting with the vision, at least, of a "quarterback".
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby RoyalDude » Mon May 27, 2013 5:21 pm

herb wrote:You work in construction, right? I’m guessing roofer.


Construction yes, roofing no. Wrong area, I'm in the area where you get an empty lot and have to figure out how to put a house on it. Roofing? That would be in Don Levers area as he is the DampProofing King of North Vancouver.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Rede » Mon May 27, 2013 7:23 pm

I don't think Gillis should trade Edler for anything less than an overpayment. If both Schenn brothers are coming back in a deal there's something to go on. If Couturier and Schenn/Simmonds are on the table we should talk. To trade within the new conference would need to be a severe overpayment (ie Edm, Ana).

If you don't get that sort of return I'd rather see how Edler responds to a new coach. AV and Bowness are all he's ever had in the NHL.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Orcasfan » Mon May 27, 2013 9:47 pm

Rede wrote:I don't think Gillis should trade Edler for anything less than an overpayment. If both Schenn brothers are coming back in a deal there's something to go on. If Couturier and Schenn/Simmonds are on the table we should talk. To trade within the new conference would need to be a severe overpayment (ie Edm, Ana).

If you don't get that sort of return I'd rather see how Edler responds to a new coach. AV and Bowness are all he's ever had in the NHL.


What worries me about this very targeted Edler trade idea (i.e. for a big, young C) is that there are very few teams with that kind of C, who are also looking for what Edler can bring. We might want to expand the possibilities of the return in such a trade by looking at draft picks and prospects too. In other words, I wouldn't hold out for the perfect hockey trade (Edler for a top young C) as the only answer to our current needs. An asset like Edler could easily bring a variety of offers, and GMMG should choose the most valuable for the organization. For instance, I could see Tampa (who could really use Edler!) potentially offering up pick(s) and prospect(s).
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Rede » Mon May 27, 2013 10:14 pm

Orcasfan wrote:What worries me about this very targeted Edler trade idea (i.e. for a big, young C) is that there are very few teams with that kind of C, who are also looking for what Edler can bring. We might want to expand the possibilities of the return in such a trade by looking at draft picks and prospects too. In other words, I wouldn't hold out for the perfect hockey trade (Edler for a top young C) as the only answer to our current needs. An asset like Edler could easily bring a variety of offers, and GMMG should choose the most valuable for the organization. For instance, I could see Tampa (who could really use Edler!) potentially offering up pick(s) and prospect(s).


If the 3rd overall and Conolly are on the table I'd talk, but if the return isn't going to be a home run I'd rather keep Edler than make a change for the sake of a change.

We don't need to move Edler and if we don't get a compelling return then I don't.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon May 27, 2013 11:28 pm

LOL you guys are on meth if you think the Lightning will trade the 3rd pick alone for Edler let alone Connolly as well.

Vancouver would have to add their first pick along with Edler to nab just the 3rd overall pick.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby SKYO » Mon May 27, 2013 11:50 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:LOL you guys are on meth if you think the Lightning will trade the 3rd pick alone for Edler let alone Connolly as well.

Vancouver would have to add their first pick along with Edler to nab just the 3rd overall pick.


haha yup Edler+1st for 3rd overall, might get some roster player back for cap reasons, but that's what it would take!

I think there is a better chance at nabbing Bobby Ryan for Edler, as Ryan's stock is a bit low at the moment, perfect time to try to trade for him.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Meds » Tue May 28, 2013 12:40 am

Orcasfan wrote:I see the logic of moving Edler (thanks, herb). But with him gone, there is a bit of a "gap". We won't really have a power play quarterback with the D. I'm sure that the coaches have been trying to groom Edler to fill that role for a couple of years - ever since Ehrhoff left, especially. His success in evolving into that role is certainly debatable at this point. But without him there, who do we have who can be that player? Certainly not Casual Kev! I don't think Garrison has the speed or the skating ability of Edler. If we want to see our PP improve, we really would be better with a bone fide PP quarterback.

I am not confident that Bieksa can play the top pairing for very long. Who knows what Tanev's ceiling is? Certainly not as a PP quarterback, though! As far as Corrado is concerned...we all hope for the best, but we should also be prepared for less, just in case. Once again, that right side is looking shaky. Yes, if we trade Edler for someone like Courturier or Ryan...great. And what happens if Bieksa gets injured (or underperforms)? Gillis really needs to fix this continuing fester on the right side, and, hopefully not just keep his fingers crossed that the solution rests with Tanev and/or Corrado. Ideally, we get a big, good, PP quarterback who shoots right! (just another rabbit that GMMG needs to pull out of his hat!). ;)


Did you watch much this season?

He's not the fastest guy out there, but he doesn't give much up in the way of mobility when compared to Edler. His skating is actually quite good, he's far more responsible with the puck at the point, can pass just as well, and is positionally far more responsible than Edler. Because of all of these things he doesn't need to be as fast as Edler. Edler's only real upside compared to Garrison is his physically aggressive play.....when he brings it. Edler is a bit better at carrying the puck, but also turns it over far more.

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hoc ... r.php?3243

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hoc ... r.php?6570

Edler is knocked for inconsistency. I disagree with him being praised for one on one play.

Garrison only gets knocked for being strong and a bit injury prone? Ummm....

My take.....

Skating - Edler.
Positioning - Garrison.
Shooting - Garrison.
Hitting - Edler.
Poise - Garrison.
Passing - Garrison.
Puck Carrying - Edler.
Puck Moving - Garrison.
Consistency - Garrison.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby FAN » Tue May 28, 2013 4:09 am

Orcasfan wrote:I see the logic of moving Edler (thanks, herb). But with him gone, there is a bit of a "gap". We won't really have a power play quarterback with the D. I'm sure that the coaches have been trying to groom Edler to fill that role for a couple of years - ever since Ehrhoff left, especially. His success in evolving into that role is certainly debatable at this point. But without him there, who do we have who can be that player? Certainly not Casual Kev! I don't think Garrison has the speed or the skating ability of Edler. If we want to see our PP improve, we really would be better with a bone fide PP quarterback.

Edler is a solid PP QB, but ideally he's a complimentary pointman on a 1st unit PP or a featured shot on the 2nd PP unit. Edler is skilled and has a big shot and will be given PP minutes on virtually any team in the league. But Edler isn't going to magically make a PP better unless a big shot from the point is all that is missing from a PP. This is the first year in years where Edler held onto his spot on the 1st unit PP and the PP sucked. Not blaming the team's poor PP at Edler, but the same coaches ranked Ehrhoff and Samuelsson ahead of Edler a couple of years ago and last year Salo was better: meaning the team's PP efficiency isn't going to fall off the map without Edler. Dan Hamhuis got a chance to play on the PP this year and while he doesn't have Edler's shot, he actually had more PP assists than Edler this year. I'm not saying Hamhuis is the solution, but rather Edler is not an irreplaceable piece on the PP given that Edler isn't an elite PP QB and the team's depth in defensemen with the skills to not be a liability on the PP.

You are right that Garrison doesn't have the skating ability of Edler but Edler's skating wasn't what made Edler productive on the PP and it isn't going to be what makes Garrison effective on the PP. Two years ago, Garrison ranked second amongst defensemen in PP goals. This year Garrison had 3 compared to Edler's 5 while having less than 50 minutes less PP time than Edler. Garrison isn't the passer Edler is, but I think Garrison is the better shooter because he has that hard short windup slap shot that he sometimes utilizes.
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