Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 8:58 am

RoyalDude wrote:I'm quite astounded by the lack of postings in this thread confronting the harsh reality that good defenseman are not growing on trees in this day and age. If you trade Edler you best be replacing him with another top 4 defenseman.


Not really.

We already have Hamhuis and Garrison, who are solid, two way, top four, left side defensemen. Edler cannot play the right side to save his life. We cannot afford to have $4M+ defencemen playing on the bottom pairing anymore with a decreasing cap if we intend to seriously upgrade at forward.

If Edler is traded and Ballard is bought out, the Canucks will need to find somebody to play the left side on the bottom pairing, which is easy to accomplish through free agency or a minor trade.

Another pressing question is are the Canucks comfortable going with Bieksa, Tanev and Corrado on the right side? I say yes, IF the Canucks can make serious upgrades to the forwards by getting a big scoring winger to play with Kesler and a legitimate third line centre.

Fans want to talk all day about re-tooling and upgrading at forward, then are afraid to move any assets. The only assets we have that do not have NTCs and do not involve moving futures are Edler, Burrows and Hansen. Hansen is a cheap, useful third line guy, while Edler and Burrows have those big contract extensions looming which is why I would look at moving them.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Topper » Mon May 27, 2013 9:29 am

Edler problem is he is unable to play the right side and has difficulties adjusting to a lefty playing on that side. That was the main cause of his defensive lapses this year. The shortage of right shooting dmen affected Edler more than any other dman in the lineup.

The other issue he has goes back through his entire NHL career. He hears footstep when his back is turned retrieving a puck and panics. he has always had problems against an aggressive forcheck.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby donlever » Mon May 27, 2013 9:45 am

Topper wrote: He hears footstep when his back is turned retrieving a puck and panics. he has always had problems against an aggressive forcheck.


..as you've sated numerous times over the years and since day one.

See I listen sometimes.

It does not help that his back is seemingly a permanent issue with regards to this aspect as well.

He will shy away even more even if its just subconsciously.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby RoyalDude » Mon May 27, 2013 10:28 am

herb wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:I'm quite astounded by the lack of postings in this thread confronting the harsh reality that good defenseman are not growing on trees in this day and age. If you trade Edler you best be replacing him with another top 4 defenseman.


Not really.

We already have Hamhuis and Garrison, who are solid, two way, top four, left side defensemen. Edler cannot play the right side to save his life. We cannot afford to have $4M+ defencemen playing on the bottom pairing anymore with a decreasing cap if we intend to seriously upgrade at forward.

If Edler is traded and Ballard is bought out, the Canucks will need to find somebody to play the left side on the bottom pairing, which is easy to accomplish through free agency or a minor trade.

Another pressing question is are the Canucks comfortable going with Bieksa, Tanev and Corrado on the right side? I say yes, IF the Canucks can make serious upgrades to the forwards by getting a big scoring winger to play with Kesler and a legitimate third line centre.

Fans want to talk all day about re-tooling and upgrading at forward, then are afraid to move any assets. The only assets we have that do not have NTCs and do not involve moving futures are Edler, Burrows and Hansen. Hansen is a cheap, useful third line guy, while Edler and Burrows have those big contract extensions looming which is why I would look at moving them.


LMAO so u r replacing Edler with the midget Ballard in the top 4? Boy what a massive D-core we have, two rookies, casual Kevin, and Kevin 'Run around with my head cut off' Ballard.


That would put our defense not much better than the Oilers. I can't wait to see how this D-group u desire handles the monster sized teams of the west
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby vic » Mon May 27, 2013 10:34 am

RoyalDude wrote:
herb wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:I'm quite astounded by the lack of postings in this thread confronting the harsh reality that good defenseman are not growing on trees in this day and age. If you trade Edler you best be replacing him with another top 4 defenseman.


Not really.

We already have Hamhuis and Garrison, who are solid, two way, top four, left side defensemen. Edler cannot play the right side to save his life. We cannot afford to have $4M+ defencemen playing on the bottom pairing anymore with a decreasing cap if we intend to seriously upgrade at forward.

If Edler is traded and Ballard is bought out, the Canucks will need to find somebody to play the left side on the bottom pairing, which is easy to accomplish through free agency or a minor trade.

Another pressing question is are the Canucks comfortable going with Bieksa, Tanev and Corrado on the right side? I say yes, IF the Canucks can make serious upgrades to the forwards by getting a big scoring winger to play with Kesler and a legitimate third line centre.

Fans want to talk all day about re-tooling and upgrading at forward, then are afraid to move any assets. The only assets we have that do not have NTCs and do not involve moving futures are Edler, Burrows and Hansen. Hansen is a cheap, useful third line guy, while Edler and Burrows have those big contract extensions looming which is why I would look at moving them.


LMAO so u r replacing Edler with the midget Ballard in the top 4? Boy what a massive D-core we have, two rookies, casual Kevin, and Kevin 'Run around with my head cut off' Ballard.


That would put our defense not much better than the Oilers. I can't wait to see how this D-group u desire handles the monster sized teams of the west


What part of this do you not understand:

herb wrote:If Edler is traded and Ballard is bought out, the Canucks will need to find somebody to play the left side on the bottom pairing, which is easy to accomplish through free agency or a minor trade.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 11:07 am

RoyalDude wrote:LMAO so u r replacing Edler with the midget Ballard in the top 4? Boy what a massive D-core we have, two rookies, casual Kevin, and Kevin 'Run around with my head cut off' Ballard.


That would put our defense not much better than the Oilers. I can't wait to see how this D-group u desire handles the monster sized teams of the west


LMAO

No I thought it was pretty clear that I feel as though Hamhuis and Garrison have demonstrated that they are more than competent in top four roles on the left side, thus Alexander Edler has become redundant. Edler cannot play the right side; therefore he does not fit well in a top 4 that has Hamhuis and Garrison.

Garrison and Hamhuis are better all around defensemen than Edler, and I think allocating $5M in cap space on a bottom pairing offensive specialist defenseman would be a mistake, thus I am advocating we trade Edler.

The bottom line is that we have three left sided defensemen who will be earning north of $4.5M next year. All three have been tried on the right side, and none of them have looked competent enough. It is an extreme waste of cap space to have a $4.5M+ defenseman on the third pairing, especially with a decreasing cap and especially with the holes we have up front.

Tanev is better defensively than Edler, and Corrado looks like a keeper who can develop in a bottom pairing role with a lefty veteran that still needs to be acquired. We’re talking about getting younger next year, so two of our most promising young players should be getting bigger roles on this team.

Keith Ballard should be dumped for a worn out jock strap or bought out. I said as much in the post of mine you quoted.

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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby donlever » Mon May 27, 2013 11:10 am

RoyalDude wrote: LMAO so u r replacing Edler with the midget Ballard in the top 4? Boy what a massive D-core we have, two rookies, casual Kevin, and Kevin 'Run around with my head cut off' Ballard.



herb wrote: If Edler is traded and Ballard is bought out, the Canucks will need to find somebody to play the left side on the bottom pairing, which is easy to accomplish through free agency or a minor trade.


Maybe do us a favor and at least read the shit you are responding to.

That way at least your drivel will be to the point as opposed to waxing (un)poetic about the same fucking thing over and over again.

Gee, thanks.
Last edited by donlever on Mon May 27, 2013 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby dbr » Mon May 27, 2013 11:20 am

I see donquixotelever's abandoned his noble effort to remind us all of the credibility RoyalDude had built up in days of goddamned hockey talk yore..

When even donnie's turned his back on you, that is a pretty sorry state of affairs.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby Tciso » Mon May 27, 2013 11:32 am

Eddy Punch Clock wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:This thread topic is stupid.


I think it's warranted.

Not saying I'm all for the idea just yet but its certainly worth exploring before his NTC kicks in in July.

We're getting swept in the first round; big changes have to be made.


So, the question really should be what are we hoping to get in return for Edler. If it isn't a 1st line forward, then the simple answer is NO. Dump Ballard if we are looking to lower our cap hit.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 11:50 am

Tciso wrote:So, the question really should be what are we hoping to get in return for Edler. If it isn't a 1st line forward, then the simple answer is NO. Dump Ballard if we are looking to lower our cap hit.


Ballard and Luongo need to be moved to get us under the $64.3M cap in almost every scenario that doesnt involve LTIR.

The return in an Edler trade is obviously important, but if moving Edler for futures gives us the cap space and ability to sign David Clarkson, then that's also good. If Edler can be moved for a big young defenseman and a young piece up front, then that would be good too.

Lots of variables involved. If Gillis is looking at moving Edler, he will need to field all offers and evaluate. I don't think you go into trade negotiations with the mindset that you absolutely need to attain X type of player, because you could miss out on other opportunities.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby donlever » Mon May 27, 2013 11:52 am

herb wrote: ...because you could miss out on other opportunities.


Right.

Like second line scoring winger and a 3rd line center with size would be as beneficial to the casue as the first liner Tciso refers to.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 11:56 am

donlever wrote:
herb wrote: ...because you could miss out on other opportunities.


Right.

Like second line scoring winger and a 3rd line center with size would be as beneficial to the casue as the first liner Tciso refers to.


Bingo.

It also opens up the field of potential trading partners from a handful who would be willing to move a "first line winger" to potentially 30 teams that would have interest in an elite offensive defenseman thereby increasing the pool of talent available and create some competition which would up the price.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby dbr » Mon May 27, 2013 12:03 pm

Tciso wrote:So, the question really should be what are we hoping to get in return for Edler. If it isn't a 1st line forward, then the simple answer is NO. Dump Ballard if we are looking to lower our cap hit.


I've cut down my post considerably after don and herb came in and posted pretty much exactly what I'd composed :scowl: , but the two variants of fantasyland HFBoards trades you see involving Edler are for Bobby Ryan and for Sean Couturier.

Ryan's obviously a very good player who would improve the team more right now, but Couturier is the type of player the Canucks just can't get their hands on - he's going to be a bargain for years and is already an important contributor.. the team needs those bargains if it's going to maintain enough depth to be contenders in this league.

(Of course if the team can get either of those returns I'd be a pretty happy camper, but I'm not really talking about these two exact individuals.)
Last edited by dbr on Mon May 27, 2013 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby CorranHorn » Mon May 27, 2013 12:04 pm

Also adds the ability to have a package consisting of salary dump... although we would be taking less back.

Something that comes into play here is the order of the upcoming/impending trades.

If you move Edler BEFORE lou then you have be willing to take less back for lou.

ETC
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Re: Should Gillis Trade Alexander Edler?

Postby donlever » Mon May 27, 2013 12:10 pm

dbr wrote:
Tciso wrote: Ryan's obviously a very good player who would improve the team more right now, but Couturier is the type of player the Canucks just can't get their hands on - he's going to be a bargain for years and is already an important contributor.. the team needs those bargains if it's going to maintain enough depth to be contenders in this league.



I'd prefer the Philly deal not only for the reasons you mention but also because I don't want Edler in my division for the next 6 years.

It would be so Canuck luck personified to have him turn into a mini-Lidstrom once he left and haunt us for seasons to come.

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