Roster Questions

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If an overhaul of this team is needed, which of the following players who should MG shop around...

Hank and Danny
12
7%
Edler
44
25%
Booth
45
26%
Higgins
8
5%
Bieksa
15
9%
Ballard
45
26%
Hamhuis
2
1%
None of the above
2
1%
 
Total votes : 173

Re: Roster Questions

Postby spooner » Wed May 08, 2013 11:55 am

sagebrush wrote:The time for change is here. Coaches & players. No one (subject to contract constraints) should be safe.


Bingo.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby tantalum » Wed May 08, 2013 11:57 am

Yes I realize...poor choice of words on my part. He needs to be moved....from the pending UFA list to the just get lost list.


I know everybody is complaining about the Sedin not being the best players (yet somehow leading the team in points along with their linemate). But there is quite simply (again) no secondary scoring from the third and 4th lines and the second line wingers.

The question shouldn't be IMO "why do the twins not score at a 100+ point pace in the playoffs" (which is really what people seem to be suggesting....hint they ain't Crosby and it will never happen. (PPG average with good and not so good series is what you will get).

The question should instead be "why can this team NOT win a series if Henrik, or Kesler or Luongo/goaltender aren't completely carrying the team on their back?" Because you need other guys to step up. I also think some people need to be reminded that Henrik did about as much as he possibly could have done last years against the Kings. He was the only forward that really showed up.

As pointed out on another page:

17 goals in 147 playoff games for Raymond, Higgins, and Hansen as canucks.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby SKYO » Wed May 08, 2013 12:14 pm

tantalum wrote:The question should instead be "why can this team NOT win a series if Henrik, or Kesler or Luongo/goaltender aren't completely carrying the team on their back?" Because you need other guys to step up. I also think some people need to be reminded that Henrik did about as much as he possibly could have done last years against the Kings. He was the only forward that really showed up.


Yeah I think the twins are ok, they just need a new coach whom will force Kassian to work with them.

More importantly our GM should create another dominant scoring line maybe before the twins now.
Someone like Vanek with Kesler could make the Sedins be the best 2nd line in the NHL.


Vanek - Kesler - Higgins
Sedins - Kass
Torres - Matthias - Hansen
Adams - Lappy - Parros

Matthias/Parros - lu trade.
Torres/adams ufa signings


How we acquire Vanek is not my problem, but Burrows or Edler/Bieksa and maybe Jensen could be involved.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Aaronp18 » Wed May 08, 2013 1:26 pm

Well I was sooooooo sure the Canucks were going to win the Cup this year that I just don't know where to start! :mrgreen:

First, as most have said, the coaching staff is done. It's stale, the players don't want to play AV's system anymore and this system no longer follows the Gillis motto that he swore he would abide by when he was hired - entertaining hockey.

The forward group needs retooled something fierce, and the first decision that needs to be made is whether the Sedins are top line players. IMO they still can be but next year is a transitional year as I see it. It's time for Kesler to keep his ass healthy and take over the 1A centre role. Leaving the Sedins as the 1B line with someone other than Burrows.

The Sedin's point totals will drop to somewhere around the 70 point mark next year, and then head further south in subsequent years. Not substantially before they retire but they will drop off enough for us to require a new top line.

This means Kelser needs a permanent skilled winger! This should be Gillis' top priority IMO.

We also need a third line centre, perhaps this can be attained through free agency, perhaps not. However it needs to be addressed. We need someone other than Ryan and Henrik that can take draws, especially key defensive zone faceoffs and when killing penalties.

We need some hard hitting, faster, tougher players on the fourth line as well. Hopefully this can be found in the system or through inexpensive free agent signings. Lain, Mallet, or Archibald come to mind.

As far the defense goes I think with a new coach we could be sitting fairly well. Hamhuis, Garrison, Tanev and Corrado are keepers. I do think that Bieksa can stay and will be just fine if he gets paired back up with Hamhuis and is, of course, healthy. So in reality we may be looking to grab a 5-6th guy and some more depth.

So from what I see:

_____-Kesler-_____
Dank-Hank-Kassian
Higgins-_____-Hansen
_____-_____-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Garrison-Tanev
_____-Corrado

Schneider
_____

We obviously need a backup but I think that can be found via free agency.

As far as trading chips go, we know how the Luongo thing is going so hopefully he expands his desired list of teams to be everything east of the Rockies and there's a bigger market for goalies in the summer. Hell maybe we can simply get Neiderreiter out of Brooklyn! :thumbs:

Before we get hamstrung with Edler and Burrows new deals I think they are the ones to shop. However, if teams come bearing gifts for some of our other core players nothing should be out of the question. As far as I'm concerned the only ones not moving up front are Henrik and Daniel and on defense Hamhuis and Garrison.

Now it is going to have to be something to blow Gillis' socks off to part with Kesler, Bieksa, Tanev or Corrado but it's definitely time to make some changes.

As I said from the start of this the coach is the first to go and we need to hire before the draft. Consultation with the coaching staff about player acquisition should be considered before making huge moves but not be the deciding factor.

Next year I look for big changes as far as this teams direction goes, hopefully we have a singular route. I don't think a collapse of the team is required because we still have key pieces right in the prime of their career. We aren't close to the Calgary model because we have two high end centres right now and some very strong pieces on defense. Not to mention a starting goalie that was near the top of the league in several statistical categories, and he's just getting to his prime as well.

It's time to retool and shake up the core. Too much complacency!

And as far as I'm concerned this is going to be the key offseason to Gillis' tenure as the Canucks GM. Game on Mikey!
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby tantalum » Wed May 08, 2013 1:35 pm

There is no question the Sedins are top line players. They aren't generational talents which everyone seems to think they should be.

The Kings didn't win the cup because they had Kopitar. They won the cup because they had Kopitar, Richards, and Carter (equivalent to the Sedins and Kesler really) AND they had a bunch of depth players step up. Penner was over a 0.5 PPG for goodness sakes. Then you had Lewis, King and Stoll contributing points. When you add in all that AND top it with 4th cog to the first three in Brown and I think you see whether or not the Sedins are Hart trophy nominees next year isn't the issue. It's where are these other guys to supplement what they bring?

The Sedins aren't Crosby and Ovechkin. I fail to see why people think they should be. reminds me of how people seem to believe #1 D-man means a guy like Chara or Weber. There is nothing really wrong with what the Sedins bring to the ice in the playoffs. They put up points (PPG the past 5 years). Henrik in particular has put the team on his back in a few series (last year it wasn't enough). The problem lies in the combined 2 goals and like 4 point total the past two years from the likes of Higgins, Raymond, Hansen, LaPierre, Roy etc. Never mind the guys like Sestito, Ebbett or Weise.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Aaronp18 » Wed May 08, 2013 2:00 pm

tantalum wrote: The problem lies in the combined 2 goals and like 4 point total the past two years from the likes of Higgins, Raymond, Hansen, LaPierre, Roy etc. Never mind the guys like Sestito, Ebbett or Weise.


Exactly.

The secondary scoring is nowhere. If it wasn't for Kesler we would have none whatsoever.

Imagine if we could rely on the Sedins for secondary scoring instead.

We can talk about goaltending and defensive gaffs till we're blue in the face but we do need to outscore a mistake or two every once in a while.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby RoyalDude » Wed May 08, 2013 5:39 pm

You are not going to get fair market value in return for the Sedins. It's pointless even going there. We just need a GM who can create an atmosphere where not all the fucking pressure is put on them to create the offense, you can see they are aging and have lost a step or two. Lessen the pressure on them, create a new, younger, FASTER, BIGGER North/South 1st line with Kesler being at the heart of it and find him some proper top 6 forwards to play with. Then create a fucking kid line with the 3rd, ie. Schroeder and Jensen with the Vet and fellow Dane - Hansen on their wing. Put Kass back with the Sedins and trade Burrows and one of Bieksa or Edler and Schneider to re-tool the team. And for the love of Allah, get a proper 4th line as well.

Biggest needs

Get a proper top 6 forward
Get a proper top 2 defenseman
Start graduating some of the kids up to the big club full time (Might not have a choice due to Gillis lovely cap restraints) like Jensen, Gaunce or Schroeder. Keep Corrado along with fellow youngster Tanev to start the next wave on defense

Bye Bye

Booth
Ballard
Higgins
Lappiere
Sestito
Raymond
Barker
Roy
Pinnizotto

What we really need is for Gillis to start getting luckier at the draft i.e. Joe Pavelski who was drafted 205th overall by SJ.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby tantalum » Wed May 08, 2013 6:13 pm

Pretty much the changes I'd like to see as well RD. I don't mind Higgins but he should be in a third line role or at least the passenger on the second line instead of a guy relied on to make the line tick.

I think you look at moving Bieksa or Edler and see what is out there. I think if you can replace one of them with a steady defensive presence for 5-on-5 and PK duty it would go a long way to helping the team.

I'd say Gillis was "lucky" with Tanev (free agent) and Corrado (5th round pick) and we'll see what happens with Blomstrand (4th round) and Tommernes (7th) who have ELC.

I think we will definitely see Tanev, Corrado, and Kassian on the team next season. I think Schroeder with a good summer of work will be on the team. In addition I wouldn't be shocked to see Jensen get a good number of games. We'll see how the others like Blomstrand, Lain and Tommernes (4 SEL season under his belt).

Tanev is the oldest of those guys and he won't turn 24 until December. That is a pretty good influx of young talent. They won't be ready to take "core" positions in the lineup but i think with the proper development they will be well on their way to doing so.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Orcasfan » Wed May 08, 2013 7:56 pm

How much faith do you guys have in Kesler? Do you see him as the heir-apparent to Hank as 1st C ? Or do you see him as the perpetual 2nd C ? For myself, I don't have a lot of confidence in his ability to make his line-mates better. We know that he is a shoot-first kind of center, which means there needs to be a quality set-up guy on one of his wings. Doesn't mean that that winger can't also be a scorer, by the way! Maybe Kassian can develop along those lines? It looks like Gaunce could be that guy - but not for a couple/few years.

Jensen seems to be a shoot-first guy too. Which is fine...just so long as he can convert! So one possibility for the 2nd line next year would be Burrows, Kesler and Jensen/Kassian. Kassian or Jensen could fit on the 1st line with the twins (if we're lucky!). At this stage of his career, I think Burr is better suited to the 2nd line. (no pun intended...originally, anyway!).

As far as the 3rd line, obviously a new C, and on the flanks, Higgins and Hansen. Those two guys are a much better fit on a two-way 3rd line. Hopefully, the new C for that line would have some size (can we ask for someone at least 6 ft?), and is decent in the faceoff circle. I'm sorry, I don't think Schroeder would measure up. Ideally, he would be an understudy for a 2nd line.

But, overall, whoever the new coach is, he will need to inspire the support players! He will also need to establish a very different attitude to discipline.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Reefer2 » Wed May 08, 2013 8:06 pm

I am tired of Kesler the diver.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby tantalum » Wed May 08, 2013 8:08 pm

I don't see Kesler as a #1 center or a guy who wears a letter. I just don't. I love his passion but time is running out for him to figure out how to focus that passion. He's managed to do it once against the Preds but not much else. He's also one of the biggest problems when the PK suffers.

He's a second line guy and damn good one. Well I think he might be a first line winger but second line center. They need to get back to challenging him with the big matchups.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby SKYO » Wed May 08, 2013 9:23 pm

Kesler will help this team win a Stanley Cup more than almost any forward we have now. ainec.

He's our version of Toews, just with more of a chip on his shoulder. Whereas Toews has Hossa or Kane to play with, Kesler has Raymond/Booth and Higgins to play with...lol

All RK17 needs is a Parise clone as RK/Parise ripped it up in the Olympics together, which is I why I keep mentioning Vanek, whom appears available due to his contract expiring after next season.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Meds » Wed May 08, 2013 10:17 pm

Ok, here's a fun scenario to throw out there for shits and giggles.....

Gillis calls up Poile right before the draft and lays it out for him.

Listen Dave, you guys missed the...

.....

What d'ya mean who is this? It's Mike Gillis, and I'm calling to...

.....

Well Lawrence is busy, so can I just say my piece...

.....

Thanks.

Anyways, you guys tanked hard this year...

.....

Well yeah, we did too, but at least we got 4 games in the bonus round...

.....

Whatever, agree to disagree. Bottom line is that your team has some young guys that might turn a corner for you up front, but your blueline is paper thin after Shea. So I'm gonna offer you a real sweet deal he...

.....

No I'm not fucking giving you Hamhuis back in exchange for Brandon Yip.

.....

Yeah, well you would think so, but what I'm giving you is the next best thing. I'll send you Kevin and Alex.....

.....

Yes, I know I sent Connauton to Dallas, I'm talking about Kevin Bieksa, and before you say no to Burrows it's Alex Edler.....

.....

Yes, I know neither of them are as good as your "prize pony". But I'll send them BOTH your way in exchange for Weber...

.....

Fuck Dave! Let me finish!

.....

Ok, sorry, but I'll send them both to you in exchange for Shea, and I'll toss in our 1st from this year, next year's 2nd, Chris Higgins, and the rights to Raymond.

.....

Yes I know all of that, but look at the big picture, you are getting two defensemen who can both play big minutes, and face it, Edler needs a change and I think Barry is the only guy that can really get him where he needs to be as a player. I'm essentially sending you a matched set, a left and right shooting dman here...

.....

You also get the picks, and Chris and Mase can add some secondary scoring...

.....

Well how am I supposed to know what you're supposed to do when you all you have is secondary scoring?!?

Anyways, I'll consider another pick instead of either Raymond's rights or Higgins...

.....

Yes, fine I'll give you Schroeder instead...

.....

Of course you can have Alain and Rick as equipment managers.

Do we have a deal?

.....

Well fuck you too Dave. All I'm trying to do here is help you out.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Strangelove » Thu May 09, 2013 2:04 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:this team is more dysfunctional than Strangelove's house at Christmas dinner...


Don't knock martinis + christmas carols until you've tried it Dogface! :evil:
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby KeyserSoze » Thu May 09, 2013 3:41 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:So from what I see:

_____-Kesler-_____
Dank-Hank-Kassian
Higgins-_____-Hansen
_____-_____-Weise

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Garrison-Tanev
_____-Corrado

Schneider
_____


Couldn't agree more.

The Hawks, Pens, Bruins...Ducks, Wings...hell even the Sharks have 2 lines that can score on a regular basis.

I still want Hank-n-Dank on the Canucks but we need another line that can, at the very least, challenge them as the top scoring line. Hopefully a guy like Edler (on his own or as part of a package) can help land you a top flight forward to play with Kesler. I like Edler, but if the Canucks are going to move one of their top 4 D he is IMO the guy.

Soft forwards who cannot contribute offensively have no place on this team moving forward - I'm looking at guys like Raymond, Ebbet, Roy...Schroeder TBD

Burrows is an interesting one. He has always been a bargain but his 4-year $18M contract kicks in next year. He's been a key contributor to the team's success, but I think Gillis has to keep his ears open to offers.

If Lapierre wants to re-up at a reasonable rate I'd sign him as the 4th line C.

Perhaps Lack can make the jump to the NHL as the backup.

Gillis certainly has his work cut out for him.
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