Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Tue May 07, 2013 2:23 am

Waffle wrote:HW, when the Dallas Stars announced the hiring of Jim Nill the only two other names that were tossed out as being considered were Ron Hextall who is an assistant in LA and Brian Burke. I don't know anything about Hextall's credentials to be a GM, and probably a lot of people won't know him from his playing days, but he was a fierce competitor as I am sure you know.
Damn, I was going to say jim nill, but didn't know he is with dallas now. I wouldn't mind hextall, I think he played a role in getting LA to be a playoff team, bigger/stronger guys, guys who are tough to play against and built to win a grueling 7 game series. Hextall played old school hockey, and I wouldn't mind that. :lol: Marc Bergervin and Garth Snow came out of no where to become GMs, hextall has been serving as an assistant for a couple years now... he may be ready.

I'm getting tired of having a bunch of soft talented offensive guys who always seem to disappear during the playoffs. I'd rather have some guys who are not as talented, but will battle every night; even if they lose, they go down fighting. I know I'm sounding like cherry, but I'm tired of all the euros, i'd like to fill our roster with a bunch of good canadian kids. :D

As for Burkie, I liked him alot, but we kind of been there and done that (2X now really). He's getting a bit old now too and seems to have a bunch of personal problems. If we were going to get a new GM (which I doubt), I'd go with a younger guy like hextall.

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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Reefer2 » Tue May 07, 2013 5:10 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
I'm getting tired of having a bunch of soft talented offensive guys who always seem to disappear during the playoffs. I'd rather have some guys who are not as talented, but will battle every night; even if they lose, they go down fighting. I know I'm sounding like cherry, but I'm tired of all the euros, i'd like to fill our roster with a bunch of good canadian kids. :D
.
Been saying this for years, too many perimeter players who can all skate and no players who crashes the net.

3 main points from 3 years ago that I have been saying and arguing with the likes of people like Pot

1) - Canucks would never win the cup with AV as coach. AV is nothing but a defensive coach who will always revert to a trap when he should attack(see game 2 of this series), he was forced to play an attacking style of hockey by MG and he had the guns to do it. AV does not bring up young guys and give them a chance. AV cannot adjust his game within the game. Again AV has been made to look really great when he was given a team with the offensive talent this team had over the past 3 - 5 years.

2) Canucks have too many of the same type of players (Sedins, Raymond, & Hansen) who are soft perimeter players who can skate but don't go to the net. How many games night after night for the past couple of years have we seen all 3 forwards behind the net with no one in front. Cycle, cycle, cycle shot, shot blocked or goalie save but look no one in the dirty area to score. Kesler is the only player I would say at least trys to go to the net or deflect shots.

3) Edler & Bieksa are over rated, they are good but they are not true #1 more of #2b type of players. This is OK except when you count on them to be Weber type players. Do you remember when we all thought Edler was going to be the next Lindstrom, Edler is a guy who was in the right place at the right time. His numbers were what they were/are because he played on one of the most offensive talented teams, even now his numbers are there because he plays 25 mins a night and on the top PP unit. Give any D man that and plays with the Sedins and their number would be higher than expected. Not saying he didn't have the raw talent but I wonder about his success is more of the environment and not what he created. Where was Bieksa toughness against Boston, a lot of talk about this yet we see it so rarely that he lives on reputation of what he did the first few years of his career.

What pisses me off is that for the past 15 years, give or take a couple of seasons, the Canucks have had a top end team and we always seemed to either have a GM who wouldn't put the final pieces in (i.e. beach ball Dan) or a coach with an ego the size of Manhatt and played his favorite players instead of doing what is best for the team.

Ah, it is all sour grapes to me.

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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Lancer » Tue May 07, 2013 6:59 am

Reefer2 wrote: 1) Canucks would never win the cup with AV as coach. AV is nothing but a defensive coach who will always revert to a trap when he should attack(see game 2 of this series), he was forced to play an attacking style of hockey by MG and he had the guns to do it. AV does not bring up young guys and give them a chance. AV cannot adjust his game within the game. Again AV has been made to look really great when he was given a team with the offensive talent this team had over the past 3 - 5 years.
Agreed, but between him and Newell Brown they did devise some set-plays which led to an up-tick in scoring. The problem is everyone in the league has figured them out and the coaching staff hasn't come up with anything new. They've proven before they can innovate, but they either have no new ideas or won't impliment them.
Reefer2 wrote:2) Canucks have too many of the same type of players (Sedins, Raymond, & Hansen) who are soft perimeter players who can skate but don't go to the net. How many games night after night for the past couple of years have we seen all 3 forwards behind the net with no one in front. Cycle, cycle, cycle shot, shot blocked or goalie save but look no one in the dirty area to score. Kesler is the only player I would say at least trys to go to the net or deflect shots.
Hansen can go to the dirty areas and has on occasion. There are others who can and have before on occasion (Higgins, Booth, etc) but it seems that's not in the gameplan, despite the fact that it's what they need to do. AV talks a good game, but if he can't get his forwards to get off the boards into the middle of the ice even when those players of capable of doing it (hell Daniel did it more than occasionally before) then it's time for Gillis to find someone else who can.
Reefer2 wrote:3) Edler & Bieksa are over rated, they are good but they are not true #1 more of #2b type of players. This is OK except when you count on them to be Weber type players. Do you remember when we all thought Edler was going to be the next Lindstrom, Edler is a guy who was in the right place at the right time. His numbers were what they were/are because he played on one of the most offensive talented teams, even now his numbers are there because he plays 25 mins a night and on the top PP unit. Give any D man that and plays with the Sedins and their number would be higher than expected. Not saying he didn't have the raw talent but I wonder about his success is more of the environment and not what he created. Where was Bieksa toughness against Boston, a lot of talk about this yet we see it so rarely that he lives on reputation of what he did the first few years of his career.
I don't think Edler is overrated at all. Agreed that he is not a dominant D of the likes of Weber, Doughty or Karlsson but he can be a good #1 on a good team... one day. Yeah, his numbers may be the product of being on the ice with the Twins just like Erhoff, but he has the skills and the size. The problem is between his ears and either he needs a new coach in his ear or a new team. Either that, or Gillis has to go out and get that stud defenceman with Edler as cheaper bait.

As for Bieksa, he's a good top 4 when healthy and someone has to remind him what got him the room and the money he gets nowadays. Again, it comes down to coaching.
Reefer2 wrote:What pisses me off is that for the past 15 years, give or take a couple of seasons, the Canucks have had a top end team and we always seemed to either have a GM who wouldn't put the final pieces in (i.e. beach ball Dan) or a coach with an ego the size of Manhatt and played his favorite players instead of doing what is best for the team.
I don't think Gillis has lacked for trying to get those pieces to win it all. I think he just misjudged what he was getting and wasn't willing to part with assets needed to get what he could have got. I'd rather see that than Cheezeburglar's dithering and frittering away higher picks for slugs on the periphery (though Roy is starting to look like one such instance). For all the time, effort and money going into pro scouting and such, Gillis has struck out more than he's got on base. If he wants to stick around, that's one key area he needs to fix before we see another Ballard-type trade.

I think a lot of key pieces are still there, but the coach has to go.
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by herb » Tue May 07, 2013 8:52 am

Lancer wrote:I don't think Gillis has lacked for trying to get those pieces to win it all. I think he just misjudged what he was getting and wasn't willing to part with assets needed to get what he could have got. I'd rather see that than Cheezeburglar's dithering and frittering away higher picks for slugs on the periphery (though Roy is starting to look like one such instance). For all the time, effort and money going into pro scouting and such, Gillis has struck out more than he's got on base. If he wants to stick around, that's one key area he needs to fix before we see another Ballard-type trade.
Gillis has gone to the dollar store to try and get the reinforcements we have needed, believing that the core we have is capable of winning the Cup and that a few depth guys to augment the lineup would be enough (Ballard, Booth, Roy, etc.).

Now that it's clear this core is not good enough to get it done, Gillis needs to look at getting some serious help up front and mixing up the makeup of the team. We don't have cap space to burn, so high contract guys like Edler and Burrows are the easy trade targets.
Lancer wrote:I think a lot of key pieces are still there, but the coach has to go.
I certainly would agree that at this point you don't blow up the team entirely, but this group is in need of a wake up call. Change the coaching staff, trade a couple of core guys for youth up front and all of a sudden the makeup of the team is a lot different and hopefuly rejuvinated.

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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Rumsfeld » Tue May 07, 2013 2:37 pm

I'll say one thing: this franchise sure can pick'em when it comes to captains. :lol:

Lady Henrik, Luongo (LOL), Naslund, Mail-it-in Mark... When Trevor Linden is the grittiest leader you've had in 25 years it's pretty sad.

Is a captain with some fucking sand too much to ask?

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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Robert » Tue May 07, 2013 4:58 pm

To me, I don't care who the captain is. It makes no difference who's wearing the stitching on the jersey. Each player will still be who he is and play as he does.

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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Chef Boi RD » Tue May 07, 2013 5:18 pm

classic gillis - giving luongo the captaincy and then stripping him of it.
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Rumsfeld » Tue May 07, 2013 5:29 pm

RoyalDude wrote:classic gillis - giving luongo the captaincy and then stripping him of it.
That was all about massaging Roberto's gigantic ego in the hopes he'd re-up with the team.

Once it became obvious that Captain Meltdown was a headcase MG had no choice but to strip him.

Definitely a mistake though.
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Rumsfeld » Tue May 07, 2013 5:31 pm

Robert wrote:To me, I don't care who the captain is. It makes no difference who's wearing the stitching on the jersey. Each player will still be who he is and play as he does.
Oh really. By that logic we should do away with coaches as well.
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Rumsfeld » Tue May 07, 2013 5:42 pm

Playoff hockey is war and the guys leading you into battle make a difference. Ask any soldier.

I've heard numerous stories from former players who have described how guys like Messier and Yzerman turned a room around by literally manhandling the guys who were the problem and calling them out in front of the team. You think fucking Henrik would do that?

If the guy rallying the troops is a warrior who puts himself on the line for the team, you're going to respect him more than some pacifistic little pussy who looks scared half the time he's on the ice. You're going to do things you might normally not do for that kind of guy.

Sometimes you have guys like that in the room but they don't speak up like they might because they don't have the authority of the C or A. It's not their team.

Don't underestimate the power of motivation and confidence and what the right personality can do to instill that in a group.
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Chef Boi RD » Tue May 07, 2013 5:45 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:
Definitely a mistake though.
ya think?

Just one in a long line of mistakes.
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Island Nucklehead » Tue May 07, 2013 7:38 pm

Rumsfeld wrote: If the guy rallying the troops is a warrior who puts himself on the line for the team, you're going to respect him more than some pacifistic little pussy who looks scared half the time he's on the ice. You're going to do things you might normally not do for that kind of guy.

Sometimes you have guys like that in the room but they don't speak up like they might because they don't have the authority of the C or A. It's not their team.

Don't underestimate the power of motivation and confidence and what the right personality can do to instill that in a group.
And this is my problem giving guys like Burrows an "A", and it'd be a similar problem giving Kesler the "C". I can't imagine how the LA Kings enjoy Dustin Brown's diving, and Kesler as our "C" would be the same shit. Remember this






I want guys that will battle and play with integrity. The Sedins won't battle, and Kesler and Burrows don't have much integrity. There is a rather large lack of leadership on this team.

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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Meds » Tue May 07, 2013 11:51 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote: I want guys that will battle and play with integrity. The Sedins won't battle, and Kesler and Burrows don't have much integrity. There is a rather large lack of leadership on this team.
Both Burrows and Kesler now play with integrity.

The only problem I have with putting the "C" on Kesler's jersey is that his past might haunt us. He built a reputation in his first few years and a pest and a diver. Since 2010 he has been a bit of the former and very little of the latter. The guy is one of the best two-way centers in the game, and he competes.

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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Tue May 07, 2013 11:54 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote: If the guy rallying the troops is a warrior who puts himself on the line for the team, you're going to respect him more than some pacifistic little pussy who looks scared half the time he's on the ice. You're going to do things you might normally not do for that kind of guy.

Sometimes you have guys like that in the room but they don't speak up like they might because they don't have the authority of the C or A. It's not their team.

Don't underestimate the power of motivation and confidence and what the right personality can do to instill that in a group.
And this is my problem giving guys like Burrows an "A", and it'd be a similar problem giving Kesler the "C". I can't imagine how the LA Kings enjoy Dustin Brown's diving, and Kesler as our "C" would be the same shit. Remember this






I want guys that will battle and play with integrity. The Sedins won't battle, and Kesler and Burrows don't have much integrity. There is a rather large lack of leadership on this team.
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Re: Canucks Vs Sharks, Round I

Post by Larry Goodenough » Wed May 08, 2013 12:08 am

As I stated a few days ago, the Sharks were about to take the King of Divers title away from Vancouver.

They officially did it tonight as the national authority on hockey, TSN officially rolled their collective eyes at the whole mess.

The penance is over and now San Jose will have to deal with their rep.

Losing that title is the only good thing to come out of the whole series.

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