Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:11 pm

donlever wrote:Good fukin God.

This is an example of what I've been missing all season?

l o f l

One thread is enough for me.

C y'all if they make it to round 3.

(at which point I may even watch my first game of the year)


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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:10 pm

donlever wrote:Good fukin God.

This is an example of what I've been missing all season?

l o f l

One thread is enough for me.

C y'all if they make it to round 3.

(at which point I may even watch my first game of the year)


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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:13 pm

Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote: and I say it has essentially nothing to do with him.


So, what has Gillis benefitted from previous managements work here?

Uncle dans leg wrote:Come on...nothing much happens in a first year.


OK, so according to you, nothing much happens in the first year...then Nonis only had two years to judge his true body of work as a Canuck GM, wow, that's eternity.


I think Nonis was fired as much for the team's performance as he was let go because ownership wanted a completely different look in the head office. Nonis has essentially been Burke's lap dog for years.....and continued to be up until this year I think he was always an interim solution.

But really, other than making a huge trade to land Luongo, what did Nonis do? Not much.

He took over in May. The didn't add or subtract much at all. The team was bounced by Calgary in 7 games.

So fair enough, he'd been with the team for a while, knew the players, gave them a chance, now it's time to do his thing.

He drafted Schneider with the Canucks 1st round pick. And picked up Raymond with the 2nd round.

Signed a bunch of free agents, of these players on Lee Goren played for the Canucks.

Dealt Sopel for a 3rd round pick which he then used to get Steve McCarthy from Atlanta.

Traded futures to Tamp for Darby.

Traded Fedorov to the Rags for Balej. Balej only played one game for us.

Traded away a pick for Sean Brown.

Traded away a 2nd for Noronen.

Brought in Keith Carney and and Juha Alen in exchange for Skinner and a 2nd.

Traded McCarthy to Atlanta for a 7th.

Traded Mojzis and a 3rd for Weinrich.

Missed the playoffs.

So gone in the 1st round to the lower seeded Flames. Then missed entirely by going 2-4-1 in their final 2 weeks. Edmonton actually got in with more OT losses.

Nonis now has his work cut out for him. In the span of 3 seasons the Canucks have gone from powerhouse contender to a complete joke. So Nonis starts big.

Nonis fires Crawford and replaces him with Alain Vigneault.

He drafts Grabner with the 14th overall pick.....Colorado took Chris Stewart with the 18th pick, Philly took Claude Giroux with the 22nd pick, St. Louis too Patrick Berglund with the 25th pick.....Cue applause for Nonis.

He then sends Bertuzzi, Auld, and Allen, to Florida for Luongo, Krajicek, and a 6th. He fleeced the Panthers, no question.

Signs Willie Mitchell. Good move. Easy stuff, Willie wanted to play in Vancouver.

Trades a 4th for Pyatt, signs Chouinard and Bulis. The Cup is ours now! :roll:

Trades Cloutier to LA for a 2nd and a conditional.

Signs Fitzpatrick. We are set for the season! :look:

During the season he claims Sabourin and Cowan off of waivers and trades a 2nd pick for for Sopel and another pick for Smolinski. Fans start planning the parade. :lol:

Canucks ride Luongo to the 2nd round and are bounced in 5 by the eventual Champions.

He goes on to select Patrick White with the 25th overall pick. David Perron went to St. Louis with the 26th. PK Subban went in the 2nd round that year.

He then trades King and Shultz out of the system.

Signs Ritchie, Isbister Miller, and Sanford, and he re-signs Linden.

The season starts and he does nothing until February when Cooke is traded to Washington for Pettinger.

So he was actually fairly active in his few seasons with the team, but other than acquiring Luongo, he made a bunch of moves that never amounted to anything, and he gave up some picks for a trio of defenders that completely shit the bed for us and were never re-signed.

So Gillis benefited from the Lou trade, and the drafting of Schneider. Other than that I don't see what Nonis did that really helped Gillis out.

If you want to go back to moves that Burke made, well that's a longer post and a different story. I think the big ones have been the trade that landed the Sedins as 2nd and 3rd overall, choosing Kesler, finding Burrows, Hansen, Bieksa, and Edler, in the later rounds or as AHL tryouts. Burke's body of work speaks for itself, he was (is) a good GM, no question. The only fault I ever could find with Burke was his loyalty to some of his depth players and inability to make a move to address the weakness in the crease. I think that his achilles heel as a GM is that he is a poor judge of goaltending talent.....although James Reimer may be proving that opinion wrong right now.


Holy mother of god. Where do you find the time?
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Arachnid » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:30 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:So, what has Gillis benefitted from previous managements work here?

OK, so according to you, nothing much happens in the first year...then Nonis only had two years to judge his true body of work as a Canuck GM, wow, that's eternity.


I think Nonis was fired as much for the team's performance as he was let go because ownership wanted a completely different look in the head office. Nonis has essentially been Burke's lap dog for years.....and continued to be up until this year I think he was always an interim solution.

But really, other than making a huge trade to land Luongo, what did Nonis do? Not much.

He took over in May. The didn't add or subtract much at all. The team was bounced by Calgary in 7 games.

So fair enough, he'd been with the team for a while, knew the players, gave them a chance, now it's time to do his thing.

He drafted Schneider with the Canucks 1st round pick. And picked up Raymond with the 2nd round.

Signed a bunch of free agents, of these players on Lee Goren played for the Canucks.

Dealt Sopel for a 3rd round pick which he then used to get Steve McCarthy from Atlanta.

Traded futures to Tamp for Darby.

Traded Fedorov to the Rags for Balej. Balej only played one game for us.

Traded away a pick for Sean Brown.

Traded away a 2nd for Noronen.

Brought in Keith Carney and and Juha Alen in exchange for Skinner and a 2nd.

Traded McCarthy to Atlanta for a 7th.

Traded Mojzis and a 3rd for Weinrich.

Missed the playoffs.

So gone in the 1st round to the lower seeded Flames. Then missed entirely by going 2-4-1 in their final 2 weeks. Edmonton actually got in with more OT losses.

Nonis now has his work cut out for him. In the span of 3 seasons the Canucks have gone from powerhouse contender to a complete joke. So Nonis starts big.

Nonis fires Crawford and replaces him with Alain Vigneault.

He drafts Grabner with the 14th overall pick.....Colorado took Chris Stewart with the 18th pick, Philly took Claude Giroux with the 22nd pick, St. Louis too Patrick Berglund with the 25th pick.....Cue applause for Nonis.

He then sends Bertuzzi, Auld, and Allen, to Florida for Luongo, Krajicek, and a 6th. He fleeced the Panthers, no question.

Signs Willie Mitchell. Good move. Easy stuff, Willie wanted to play in Vancouver.

Trades a 4th for Pyatt, signs Chouinard and Bulis. The Cup is ours now! :roll:

Trades Cloutier to LA for a 2nd and a conditional.

Signs Fitzpatrick. We are set for the season! :look:

During the season he claims Sabourin and Cowan off of waivers and trades a 2nd pick for for Sopel and another pick for Smolinski. Fans start planning the parade. :lol:

Canucks ride Luongo to the 2nd round and are bounced in 5 by the eventual Champions.

He goes on to select Patrick White with the 25th overall pick. David Perron went to St. Louis with the 26th. PK Subban went in the 2nd round that year.

He then trades King and Shultz out of the system.

Signs Ritchie, Isbister Miller, and Sanford, and he re-signs Linden.

The season starts and he does nothing until February when Cooke is traded to Washington for Pettinger.

So he was actually fairly active in his few seasons with the team, but other than acquiring Luongo, he made a bunch of moves that never amounted to anything, and he gave up some picks for a trio of defenders that completely shit the bed for us and were never re-signed.

So Gillis benefited from the Lou trade, and the drafting of Schneider. Other than that I don't see what Nonis did that really helped Gillis out.

If you want to go back to moves that Burke made, well that's a longer post and a different story. I think the big ones have been the trade that landed the Sedins as 2nd and 3rd overall, choosing Kesler, finding Burrows, Hansen, Bieksa, and Edler, in the later rounds or as AHL tryouts. Burke's body of work speaks for itself, he was (is) a good GM, no question. The only fault I ever could find with Burke was his loyalty to some of his depth players and inability to make a move to address the weakness in the crease. I think that his achilles heel as a GM is that he is a poor judge of goaltending talent.....although James Reimer may be proving that opinion wrong right now.


Holy mother of god. Where do you find the time?


:lol: Always time to make you look like a clown :D
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby rats19 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:32 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
donlever wrote:Good fukin God.

This is an example of what I've been missing all season?

l o f l

One thread is enough for me.

C y'all if they make it to round 3.

(at which point I may even watch my first game of the year)


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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:38 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Holy mother of god. Where do you find the time?


It's called google search. Doesn't take much to cut and paste a few lines of text when what you're searching for is found quickly.

I would have cited my source, but I didn't think this was an academic paper writing site.....
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:46 pm

Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Holy mother of god. Where do you find the time?


It's called google search. Doesn't take much to cut and paste a few lines of text when what you're searching for is found quickly.

I would have cited my source, but I didn't think this was an academic paper writing site.....


I can't relate, I'm more of a chill poster, just post on the fly whatever is on my mind. That sounds like too much work.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:51 pm

Tiger wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:
Tiger wrote:Bolland only had 5 shifts.. looked like he was injured .. and he is the key to shutting down the Sedins.. Just hoping he can't play against them again..


The Sedins have put up a ton of points against Chicago the past several years, you are miles off on your point here.


Please recheck the playoff records spudman. two years agp we won the first 2 playoff games . Bolland was on the injury list.. the Sedins were not so effective after he came back and it took OT in the 7th game to get by Chitown.. Not talking regular season.. but the playoffs ..The previous year the Bolland line owned them. Points ? sure they got some but gave up a hell of a lot more goals then they scored..


You said Bolland "shut the Sedins down".

That couldn't be further from the truth, they have scored at a good clip against the Hawks both regular season and playoffs.

Bolland has gotten a ton of press for frusterating the Twins and scoring a lot in the games against us, but there hasn't been much "shutting down".

Now Kesler on Towes would be a different story.....
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:01 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Holy mother of god. Where do you find the time?


It's called google search. Doesn't take much to cut and paste a few lines of text when what you're searching for is found quickly.

I would have cited my source, but I didn't think this was an academic paper writing site.....


I can't relate, I'm more of a chill poster, just post on the fly whatever is on my mind. That sounds like too much work.


Kind of explains a few things eh.... :roll:
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Lancer » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:50 am

Jovocop wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:
Meds wrote:And he is directly responsible for the goaltending controversy and media circus surrounding Schneider and Luongo.

Fucking Nonis. :mex:



No he isn't. Doug McLean said that Nonis offered him Cory straight up for Brule and McLean thought he was nuts and said no. So he has already gone on the air and taken full responsibility for the goalie controversy in Vancouver.


Imagine McLean accepting the deal, :crazy: never mind...


Who knows? Brule could have come into the Canucks organization and realized the potential a lot of people thought he had. Who knows what Schneider would become if he hadn't had his 'Coming to Jesus' moment courtesy of Arniel in Winnipeg?

Drafting's only half the battle. You look back at the Moose organization of those years around 2005-8 when they developed the likes of Kesler, Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, Rypien, and Schneider to name some of the biggies, and try to compare that to the years afterward - especially in Chicago. We may see the fruits of the Wolves years yet, but you have to wonder how any of those players would be today if not for those years in Winnipeg. That's why I'm happy to see MG's focus on player development and seeing Arniel behind the bench in Chicago vice "Once an Oiler, Always an Oiler" MacTavish.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Lancer » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:54 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Holy mother of god. Where do you find the time?


It's called google search. Doesn't take much to cut and paste a few lines of text when what you're searching for is found quickly.

I would have cited my source, but I didn't think this was an academic paper writing site.....


I can't relate, I'm more of a chill poster, just post on the fly whatever is on my mind. That sounds like too much work.


I sometimes suspected as much. ;)
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby dbr » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:04 am

Lancer wrote:Drafting's only half the battle. You look back at the Moose organization of those years around 2005-8 when they developed the likes of Kesler, Bieksa, Burrows, Hansen, Rypien, and Schneider to name some of the biggies, and try to compare that to the years afterward - especially in Chicago. We may see the fruits of the Wolves years yet, but you have to wonder how any of those players would be today if not for those years in Winnipeg. That's why I'm happy to see MG's focus on player development and seeing Arniel behind the bench in Chicago vice "Once an Oiler, Always an Oiler" MacTavish.


Built into that though, is the huge disparity in talent pulled from the 2003-5 drafts (where the Canucks picked nine guys who went on to play for their AHL affiliate within a couple of years*, plus a couple of exceptions in Bieksa who completed his degree and went pro at the same time and a once a decade type find in Alex Burrows), and the 2006-8 drafts where we pulled just a few (Grabner, Shirokov, Hodgson, Sauve.. not one player from the 2007 draft ever made a significant contribution to our AHL affiliate!).

Pretty tough to hold the development system accountable when they have half as much to work with as they did previously.

Meanwhile 2009-11 look a bit more promising.. everyone from our 2009 draft made it into our professional system and only Anthony (hasn't made the AHL yet), Rodin (injuries derailed his career but still has two seasons in the pro game) and Connauton (traded) are write offs at this point. 2010 we've got Polasek and McNally may be a decent pro one day - not bad for five picks in round 4 and up - and in 2011 we've already got Jensen, Grenier, Corrado and Blomstrand among the pro ranks.


*Nathan McIver, Ryan Kesler, Cory Schneider, Mike Brown, Alex Edler, Jannik Hansen, Mason Raymond, Luc Bourdon, Mario Bliznak
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:45 am

This summer will be Mike Gillis 6th Draft and Next season will be Mike Gillis 6th season as GM of this team. We better start seeing some results of those 6 drafts next season or his regime will go down as this teams worst in the drafting and developing department. In Nonis 3 short years as GM, so far, his regime has better results in that department in double amount of time Gillis has been in office.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:46 am

RoyalDude wrote:Blah blah blah blah...

Image
Image
Round and round we go...

I was going to continue with it but inevitably it goes nowhere...
You see what you want and no amount of logical debate will ever change this!
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Benjo » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:11 am

I think the trio of Marchand, Bolland and Thornton do a better job of aggravating Canucks fans than the Sedins. We get so aggravated watching the cheap childish tactics while the Sedins just keep piling up points.
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