Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Wed May 08, 2013 6:40 pm

Getting rid of the coach solves nothing with this team. AV has to go, but to think that that is the biggest problem with this team is truly misguided. Still the same ole lame, passionless, heartless core group of players, not built for the playoffs, who cannot seem to build any chemistry between each other and ain't no new coach gonna make that better. Gillis gets a buy this year by firing AV, but once AV is gone, all the pressure will fall squarely on him now to right the ship, he's got no more excuses. Between now and next season, we truly get to see what kind of a GM he is. It will be 6 season and 6 drafts for Gillis. The fucking honeymoon is over for the players agent. After getting knocked out of the first round two years in a row and no AV to blame anymore, the fans will be turning their mad eyes on him, if the debauchery continues. I'm sure this is why Gillis will not like firing the scapegoat cause the scapegoat he will be come. About fucking time!
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Lancer » Wed May 08, 2013 6:51 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Getting rid of the coach solves nothing with this team. AV has to go, but to think that is the biggest problem is truly misguided. Still the same ole lame, passionless, heartless core group of players who cannot seem to build any chemistry between each other and ain't no new coach gonna make that better. Gillis gets a buy this year by firing AV, but once AV is gone, all the pressure will fall squarely on him now to right the ship, he's got no more excuses.


RD, a coaching change can do a lot for this team regardless of your disdain for the roster - top to bottom. Look at LA, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, to name a few who changed direction with a new voice at the helm. No doubt you'll prattle on about the embarrassment of riches those rosters have compared to the abject train wreck Gillis has created out of the golden goose he was handed by the Cheezeburglar. Here's an inconvenient truth for ya, Jack: This roster has Hart, Ross and Selke winners. Sure the supporting cast needs significant re-working but we're talking about the Sedins and Kesler, not Iginla and Kiprusoff.

I'm convinced a big part of the problem with their performance is between their ears. A new voice who can re-motivate them and restore their confidence, while :shock: innovating new tactics :shock: may re-charge the offense. A new coach can make the team better, but I might as well :bang: rather than argue the point further with you.

Having said that, I agree that if this team flops with Gillis' first true new coaching hire, then it's Gillis' turn on the plank.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby tantalum » Wed May 08, 2013 7:05 pm

I don't think the core lacks passion. I think Henrik and to a lesser degree Daniel have a lot of passion and have put the team on their backs at times. Perhaps not as consistently as we like but again even a generational talent like Crosby can have stinker series. Kesler certainly shows passion though it is often misguided. Bieksa shows passion but it is nearly always misguided in the playoffs. Garrison showed it and was perhaps the canucks best player. I would place Kassian in the misguided column but he isn't core yet.

But beyond that there was indeed too little of it. But it again doesn't really come from the core so much as the surrounding cast. The surrounding cast is far too comfortable watching Henrik, Daniel, Kesler and Luongo do everything for them. Hansen, Raymond, Higgins, LaPierre just haven't wanted to do what is necessary the past couple of playoff seasons. Nor have any
one not named Garrison or Hamhuis on the blueline.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Wed May 08, 2013 8:09 pm

Lancer wrote:.

Having said that, I agree that if this team flops with Gillis' first true new coaching hire, then it's Gillis' turn on the plank.


Oh that's a given, he's on the hot seat now, even with his scapegoat AV, still under the employment here. HOWEVER, once AV is gone, and the debauchery continues, this city, fans, media and OWNERSHIP won't be looking any further than Blobby's good buddy - Gillis on who to blame. I love it! Judgement Day for Gillis commences once AV is GONE! :cheers:
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Lancer » Wed May 08, 2013 8:27 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Lancer wrote:.

Having said that, I agree that if this team flops with Gillis' first true new coaching hire, then it's Gillis' turn on the plank.


Oh that's a given, he's on the hot seat now, even with his scapegoat AV, still under the employment here. HOWEVER, once AV is gone, and the debauchery continues, this city, fans, media and OWNERSHIP won't be looking any further than Blobby's good buddy - Gillis on who to blame. I love it! Judgement Day for Gillis commences once AV is GONE! :cheers:


It's almost like you pray for them to fail next season too... :eh:

Just because of your hate on for Gillis?

Really????

Would it hurt you that bad to see them win a Cup with Gillis as GM??? :look:
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Wed May 08, 2013 9:01 pm

Topper wrote:Islanders is intriguing. It means eating some crow on all the DiPietro moves but the move to Brooklyn makes the destination more palatable for Lou.

No idea how the Pens would do it capwise next year.


The Pens have some salaries expiring this year. LIke all top teams they are going to have to be very selective about who the re-sign and who they let walk. They have the luxury of having the best one-two punch in the league at center.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Wed May 08, 2013 9:48 pm

Lancer wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Lancer wrote:.

Having said that, I agree that if this team flops with Gillis' first true new coaching hire, then it's Gillis' turn on the plank.


Oh that's a given, he's on the hot seat now, even with his scapegoat AV, still under the employment here. HOWEVER, once AV is gone, and the debauchery continues, this city, fans, media and OWNERSHIP won't be looking any further than Blobby's good buddy - Gillis on who to blame. I love it! Judgement Day for Gillis commences once AV is GONE! :cheers:


It's almost like you pray for them to fail next season too... :eh:

Just because of your hate on for Gillis?

Really????

Would it hurt you that bad to see them win a Cup with Gillis as GM??? :look:

I guess he doesn't think its gonna happen, plus he's odds on gonna be right because sooner or later without a cup any Canadian market GM is toast.

Personally I do think the guy has made mistakes. When I think what would have happened had Sundin taken the 20 million? Or making Luongo Captain?! I can't picture Sam Pollock doing that... I also think he's a little too loyal to players, he caved to pressure to trade Luongo to the leafs because it was better for Luongo than the team. ( that has now set a price of a 2nd for the asset...
Having said that however, I think these are growing pains and hopefully this offseason will show results...

But at the end of the day it will be very interesting to see how much patience aquaman has if people start wearing Rogers place burgundy because Gilly can't meet expectations
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby mathonwy » Thu May 09, 2013 3:16 am

I'm getting the feeling that the majority are willing to give Gillis a chance to right the ship.

My question is, why? What has he done to deserve this "second" chance? Since the loss in game 7, nothing that he's done has panned out and now after the most embarrassing showing the Canucks have ever had in the NHL playoffs, we give him one last chance to manage what is arguably our most important off season ever?

Kesler, Sedins, Luongo, Edler, Burrows, Lappy and Ballard. Do we trust GMMG to get the most out of these extremely valuable assets? Based on what he's done so far, I dunno...

I say nuke the GM and the coach and bring in fresh blood. This way we start from scratch and everything and everyone is on the table. This is a results oriented business and IMO, both get an F grade since our loss in game 7.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby donlever » Thu May 09, 2013 6:10 am

ukcanuck wrote: When I think what would have happened had Sundin taken the 20 million?


This gain?

This is something Gillis often gets lambasted for. The "what if" concerning Sundin.

The opposite of what you and all the others say is true.

Gillis should get credit for knowing (via relationships with Mats agent "allegedly") that Sundin wasn't going to play for 2 years (this has been reported a number of times and has come out of both GMMG's and Sundins mouth) and that the offer was designed to scare off other potential suitors.

A couple of years back Gillis got as sick of hearing about the "what if" as I am and, in an uncharacteristically honest and poignant moment, detailed the entire process on the TEAM.

So you can take that out of your repertoire because the "what if" is in reality a "wasn't gonna."
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby FAN » Thu May 09, 2013 6:13 am

mathonwy wrote:I'm getting the feeling that the majority are willing to give Gillis a chance to right the ship.

My question is, why? What has he done to deserve this "second" chance? Since the loss in game 7, nothing that he's done has panned out and now after the most embarrassing showing the Canucks have ever had in the NHL playoffs, we give him one last chance to manage what is arguably our most important off season ever?


The Canucks have won the NW division every year since Gillis has been GM. That's a record of success. For comparison's sake, only 5 teams have longer active streaks of making the playoffs. To be fair, GMs generally get a chance to chance coaches before they get fired. And GMs who get fired for making the playoffs but losing in the first round are few and far between. I mean Doug Wilson still has a job. So does George McPhee. There are exceptions of course, Dale Tallon got fired despite his team making the playoffs the previous year and John Muckler got fired after his team went to the Cup finals. As for moves that have panned out since the game 7 loss. I think Jason Garrison is a moved that has panned out so far for the team. Signed this past offseason, Garrison has arguably been the Canucks best defenseman this season.

I'm as frustrated as you are and I'm definitely worried about the Canucks' immediate future. The Canucks need to get under the cap for next season and the Canucks are getting really poor return from the contracts of Luongo, Booth, and Ballard. But I still have faith in Gillis. His ability to attract players to Vancouver have come as advertised. The Canucks have had few problems keeping guys Gillis wanted to keep and the Canucks have seemingly been finalists for many desired free agents. The hiring of Dave Gagner has helped the Canucks to acquire guys like Tanev and Lain. While there have been misses, easy signings like Hamhuis and Garrison have worked out well for the Canucks. Even guys Gillis went hard after but failed to land haven't been bullets that Gillis dodged. Gillis' three year $7.5M to Backes who was coming off a 13g 31 point season would have been gold, much better than Nonis' offer of guaranteed playing time and max bonuses for Brunnstrom.

As for the draft, Gillis's draft record is looking better. It doesn't appear that he has bombed any of his first round picks and Gillis might have picked some late round gems (Corrado is one). Even the pick Gillis traded for Ballard, Gillis wanted Tinordi or Bennett, both of whom would have been solid picks. As I mentioned in another thread, I feel Gillis does have the right idea on what it takes to win in today's NHL, it's just that he failed to bolster the team's forward corps. Luongo to Toronto would have likely landed Bozak and Shane Doan could have been a difference maker. We saw that after the Cup final, Gillis saw that the league was once again moving away from speed and skill and he immediately started going after size. The switch was immediate and so far the league hasn't gone back to focusing on speed and skill. It's no coincidence that Gillis acquired Kassian and Booth and drafted Jensen and Guance. The trades and draft picks haven't paid dividends yet but they were attempts to set the team up to win both in the present and for the future. So however much Gillis has failed to improve the hockey club, Gillis is certainly aware of what this team needs to compete for the Cup.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Thu May 09, 2013 6:27 am

donlever wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: When I think what would have happened had Sundin taken the 20 million?


This gain?

This is something Gillis often gets lambasted for. The "what if" concerning Sundin.

The opposite of what you and all the others say is true.

Gillis should get credit for knowing (via relationships with Mats agent "allegedly") that Sundin wasn't going to play for 2 years (this has been reported a number of times and has come out of both GMMG's and Sundins mouth) and that the offer was designed to scare off other potential suitors.

A couple of years back Gillis got as sick of hearing about the "what if" as I am and, in an uncharacteristically honest and poignant moment, detailed the entire process on the TEAM.

So you can take that out of your repertoire because the "what if" is in reality a "wasn't gonna."

Repertoire? I didn't know I had one, but thanks for the information. I don't have an FM radio powerful enough to pick up 1040 and must have missed the post that explained Gillis' special relationship with Sundin. I stand corrected.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Island Nucklehead » Thu May 09, 2013 6:56 am

FAN wrote:The Canucks have won the NW division every year since Gillis has been GM. That's a record of success. For comparison's sake, only 5 teams have longer active streaks of making the playoffs. To be fair, GMs generally get a chance to chance coaches before they get fired. And GMs who get fired for making the playoffs but losing in the first round are few and far between. I mean Doug Wilson still has a job. So does George McPhee. There are exceptions of course, Dale Tallon got fired despite his team making the playoffs the previous year and John Muckler got fired after his team went to the Cup finals. As for moves that have panned out since the game 7 loss. I think Jason Garrison is a moved that has panned out so far for the team. Signed this past offseason, Garrison has arguably been the Canucks best defenseman this season.

I'm as frustrated as you are and I'm definitely worried about the Canucks' immediate future. The Canucks need to get under the cap for next season and the Canucks are getting really poor return from the contracts of Luongo, Booth, and Ballard. But I still have faith in Gillis. His ability to attract players to Vancouver have come as advertised. The Canucks have had few problems keeping guys Gillis wanted to keep and the Canucks have seemingly been finalists for many desired free agents. The hiring of Dave Gagner has helped the Canucks to acquire guys like Tanev and Lain. While there have been misses, easy signings like Hamhuis and Garrison have worked out well for the Canucks. Even guys Gillis went hard after but failed to land haven't been bullets that Gillis dodged. Gillis' three year $7.5M to Backes who was coming off a 13g 31 point season would have been gold, much better than Nonis' offer of guaranteed playing time and max bonuses for Brunnstrom.

As for the draft, Gillis's draft record is looking better. It doesn't appear that he has bombed any of his first round picks and Gillis might have picked some late round gems (Corrado is one). Even the pick Gillis traded for Ballard, Gillis wanted Tinordi or Bennett, both of whom would have been solid picks. As I mentioned in another thread, I feel Gillis does have the right idea on what it takes to win in today's NHL, it's just that he failed to bolster the team's forward corps. Luongo to Toronto would have likely landed Bozak and Shane Doan could have been a difference maker. We saw that after the Cup final, Gillis saw that the league was once again moving away from speed and skill and he immediately started going after size. The switch was immediate and so far the league hasn't gone back to focusing on speed and skill. It's no coincidence that Gillis acquired Kassian and Booth and drafted Jensen and Guance. The trades and draft picks haven't paid dividends yet but they were attempts to set the team up to win both in the present and for the future. So however much Gillis has failed to improve the hockey club, Gillis is certainly aware of what this team needs to compete for the Cup.


Excellent defence of Gillis, FAN. It's hard to imagine the entire front office being cleaned out. The Coach is almost certainly gone, and Gillis has another year. I figure the next year will be very informative. The Sedins are UFA next summer. If this team doesn't rebound, it could be in for a major overhaul (front office included) next summer.

The one area where I feel Gillis has misread is the defence. With this team, he accurately predicted we'd need depth on defence. However, it's his ideas of defensive scoring and offense from the back end that haven't panned out. The "D" get a lot of points in the regular season, but once the playoffs start, the shooting lanes to the point are much more clogged, and players are sacrificing the body on every shot. I feel Gillis needs to seriously consider a more traditional defensive apporach. Allocate some of the money spent ($4M guys on the third pairing ain't feasible) to get some more scoring closer to the opponents net.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby donlever » Thu May 09, 2013 7:01 am

ukcanuck wrote: Repertoire? I didn't know I had one, but thanks for the information. I don't have an FM radio powerful enough to pick up 1040 and must have missed the post that explained Gillis' special relationship with Sundin. I stand corrected.


Ha.

Oh, you have a repertoire alright.

We all do to some degree.

You are the out of country, socialist, defending the rights and efforts of the working man while still holding out love for city and country even though you reside elsewhere.

This is possibly the 50th time I've posted this information and Gillis gets so little credit for the behind the scenes, positive, productive things he has brought to the team (generally speaking...not specific to anything you have said) so it strikes a bit of a nerve is all.

Carry on.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Thu May 09, 2013 7:21 am

donlever wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: Repertoire? I didn't know I had one, but thanks for the information. I don't have an FM radio powerful enough to pick up 1040 and must have missed the post that explained Gillis' special relationship with Sundin. I stand corrected.


Ha.

Oh, you have a repertoire alright.

We all do to some degree.

You are the out of country, socialist, defending the rights and efforts of the working man while still holding out love for city and country even though you reside elsewhere.

This is possibly the 50th time I've posted this information and Gillis gets so little credit for the behind the scenes, positive, productive things he has brought to the team (generally speaking...not specific to anything you have said) so it strikes a bit of a nerve is all.

Carry on.


Since you put it that way I guess I do .. Huh, never thought of it quite like that before...

Anyway that post is my first one where I've criticized Gillis directly. In fact I've defended him in the past giving him credit for the positive changes in the relationship between the team and players.

A comparison of the resigning tactics of Pat Quinn, George McPhee ( when he was in Van) and Brian Burke speaks to Gillis different approach.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby donlever » Thu May 09, 2013 7:23 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Anyway that post is my first one where I've criticized Gillis directly. In fact I've defended him in the past giving him credit for the positive changes in the relationship between the team and players.

A comparison of the resigning tactics of Pat Quinn, George McPhee ( when he was in Van) and Brian Burke speaks to Gillis different approach.


Yep, wasn't chastising or criticizing you at all.

That Sundin things just grates at me is all.

Possibly because RD banged on that drum for 2 years straight.

:D
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