Chemistry Issues?

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Chemistry Issues?

Postby $lacker » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:04 pm

Jeff Patterson tweeted today:

Jeff Paterson ‏@patersonjeff
#Canucks AV: 'this chemistry is different from others for so many reasons I don't want to get into right now. But it's a different group'

What is it that AV is referring to?

Significant player changes from last year are Salo, Malhotra, Hodgson out, and Jason Garrison and Kassian in. Was Salo the glue that held the back end together both mentally and on the ice? Obviously the 35/1 situation has played out as poorly as it possibly could have and it seems players are waiting on whats going to happen there.

There is definitely something "different" about the team we are seeing these days, and it seems quite obvious that they need a shakeup. When you start to hear the coach saying "chemistry is different for so many reasons" you really start to wonder whats going on in that room.

HW, any scoop on any dressing room problems?
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:29 pm

There was always a belief that they were good enough on any given night to compete and to win. That feeling has not returned since the loss to Boston. At first players shrugged it off as the Stanley Cup hangover. I think now they are seeing that it is more than that.

One of the complaints "some" players had in the past was the constant line juggling, not getting set with line mates. AV always responded that good players can play anywhere and flexibility was important. I think AV may be sensing that he is losing the dressing room. More than a few players want a fresh change behind the bench.

Players wanted Salo back. No offer from the Canucks. Players wanted Mitchell back. Canucks offer not close to the LA offer. Players have been stung by what happened to Manny.

I think the Canucks right now are playing disorganized helter skelter hockey. It goes deeper than Kesler being hurt and not enough centres. Players have been, in one way or another, preparing for Luongo to be traded all season. That wears on the team. He is popular in the dressing room and I think that is taking a mental toll at this point.

A friend of mine was out drinking with a few of the players on the weekend and the complaint was that there was no will or belief that they could win. It was gone. A prolonged Cup hangover perhaps. This team was devastated when they lost game 7, they expected to win, they thought they had it. I just don't think they have recovered from that and now every loss is just amplified.

I haven't heard that there are any major dressing room issues or chemistry issues. The team we saw go to game 7 was a group of players that liked each other, hung together and were close. Over time that has eroded due to trades, players leaving via FA, but that is normal business as usual for hockey teams.

A 5 game winning streak would change a lot for this team right now.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Zedlee » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:56 pm

HW's post: you are describing a team that is discouraged and exhausted. And Gillis has not done enough to re-energize the group after that devastating loss.

The time is coming to fire Gillis. Mistake after mistake being made with this team and all the while he acts like it's all part of the "plan". I didn't like his arrogant act when he was hired and I hate it even more now. Come on Acquillini, show some balls and make a decisive move. Time to clean house and it starts with the GM.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:01 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:^HW post^

Very interesting. So fixing this broken down golf cart requires a multi-layered solution starting with personnel management, through the coaching style, over the predicted lack of depth down the middle and ending on a psychiatrists couch :shock:

Maybe we can re-unite the old "rivals" site seeing as we're all going to be cheering for teams that suck in parallel
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby herb » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:02 pm

It wasn't that long ago that HW was saying the players wanted AV back, but right now, the whole is definitely much less than the sum of the parts.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if what HW says is true. They are not good enough on most nights to win. Two years ago, they could play two shit periods, and come from two down in the third to win. This year they get behind by one, and you can see the wind go right through their tattered sails.

Look at the goaltending. Over $10M back there, but neither guy is playing up to their capabilities, and despite both being good guys, clearly this situation is not working.

On the back end, it's starting to look like Salo was the glue that held the defensive unit together (especially Edler). Every time Salo went down to injury, our record went down too. But, he had to leave sooner or later. At best he can't have more than two good years left I would imagine. Mitchell had the concussion issue too, so it was understandable that he left.

The players can't possibly be that weak emotionally that they can't handle a bit of attrition here and there, can they? I mean, it's the name of the game. My rec hockey team has more turnover than these guys have experienced for crying out loud! Man up!
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Topper » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:35 pm

Sounds more like teen spirit than team spirit.

Was KB4 amongst the snivelling pub crowd?
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby vic » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:41 pm

Zedlee wrote:
The time is coming to fire Gillis. Mistake after mistake being made with this team and all the while he acts like it's all part of the "plan". I didn't like his arrogant act when he was hired and I hate it even more now. Come on Acquillini, show some balls and make a decisive move. Time to clean house and it starts with the GM.


Fire Gillis, bring in a new GM and have Coach V sell the same old bullshit to the new guy and the team is right back where it started.

Once a new bench boss is hired, those who really want to be here will step up and play like they can. The Booth's, Ballard's, Kassian's, Schroeder's will all be given a new chance to make an impression on a new guy. They won't be squeezing the stick as much afraid of making a mistake that will have them in the doghouse.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Meds » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:01 pm

vic wrote:
Zedlee wrote:
The time is coming to fire Gillis. Mistake after mistake being made with this team and all the while he acts like it's all part of the "plan". I didn't like his arrogant act when he was hired and I hate it even more now. Come on Acquillini, show some balls and make a decisive move. Time to clean house and it starts with the GM.


Fire Gillis, bring in a new GM and have Coach V sell the same old bullshit to the new guy and the team is right back where it started.

Once a new bench boss is hired, those who really want to be here will step up and play like they can. The Booth's, Ballard's, Kassian's, Schroeder's will all be given a new chance to make an impression on a new guy. They won't be squeezing the stick as much afraid of making a mistake that will have them in the doghouse.


This season is already looking bleak for this team. I say we do just that, tank it, get a new coach right now and give him 20 games to get a feel for the team. Aim high on draft day and get a top 5 pick however you can (within reason of course). Then come back for training camp without the all the negative post-lockout media cloud overhead and gear up properly for the season.

If ever there is a year to shit the bed for a draft pick it is in a shortened season where the fans don't have to be subject to 82 games of garbage hockey and disappointing play. Whatever this team does it SHOULD NOT make a last ditch push to get into the playoffs and then lose in the first round. The fan base needs a Cup, not more playoff embarrassments. I don't think even a trip to the Conference Finals is enough right now.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:18 pm

As I said in another thread, MG has to make an honest assessment of this team. If he really feels they are a contender then fine, pull the plug and fix the holes. If not then he should be moving players out he has no intention of re-signing next year and getting whatever he can for them. I'm taking Lappy, Raymond, Booth, Ballard and a goalie here.

As a side issue, MG was absolutely convinced that Shultz was going to sign here. All indications were he was until Edmonton did their dog and pony show. I think that is why he let Salo and Rome go without as much as an offer to either. I think he expected to get Shultz and then the plan was to try and trade Ballard. Didn't work out that way. Garrison was always on the radar but I think he was the Ballard replacement.


Hope he can sign one those college D men out there.

As to who was out drinking with my friend. No, it wasn't KB4. It was more core than that. And who isn't really important as much as what is being said. Again, a good winning streak will fix a lot of problems and lift a lot of spirits. Right now they are a defeated looking team. We will see if AV can be the motivator to get them going or not.

One thing for certain, IMHO, is that they need new energy from somewhere. I just don't see them contending this year and I would rather face that and make a few changes then become like the Flames or Leafs.

As far a Cup hang overs I think you can put Ottawa in that bracket as well. They just dropped off the face of the earth. Teams like Chicago, Pittsburg are rare. They lose one year and come back the next really wanting it.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:54 pm

herb wrote: My rec hockey team has more turnover than these guys have experienced for crying out loud! Man up!



You're not comparing your ball rec hockey team to this situation are you?


cause I think it might be a bit more intense...just sayin..
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Jovocop » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:06 pm

vic wrote:
Zedlee wrote:
The time is coming to fire Gillis. Mistake after mistake being made with this team and all the while he acts like it's all part of the "plan". I didn't like his arrogant act when he was hired and I hate it even more now. Come on Acquillini, show some balls and make a decisive move. Time to clean house and it starts with the GM.


Fire Gillis, bring in a new GM and have Coach V sell the same old bullshit to the new guy and the team is right back where it started.

Once a new bench boss is hired, those who really want to be here will step up and play like they can. The Booth's, Ballard's, Kassian's, Schroeder's will all be given a new chance to make an impression on a new guy. They won't be squeezing the stick as much afraid of making a mistake that will have them in the doghouse.


That is exactly what I thought.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby herb » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:08 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
You're not comparing your ball rec hockey team to this situation are you?


cause I think it might be a bit more intense...just sayin..


No, I'm just staying that teams change over time. Nothing is ever static and attrition is commonplace. So a couple of guys that were good guys on and off the ice didn't return from last year?? Boohoo! Salo was injured half the time anyway, and Malhotra is half blind!

Like Topper said, smells like teen spirit.

It's an ice hockey team, btw! :lol:
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby $lacker » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:18 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:As to who was out drinking with my friend. No, it wasn't KB4. It was more core than that. And who isn't really important as much as what is being said. Again, a good winning streak will fix a lot of problems and lift a lot of spirits. Right now they are a defeated looking team. We will see if AV can be the motivator to get them going or not.


HW, you said that a few players were looking for a change behind the bench, is there any sense as to how short AV's leash is at this point? If anything I see Gillis holding off until the end of the season before making any moves in that regard.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:22 pm

$lacker wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:As to who was out drinking with my friend. No, it wasn't KB4. It was more core than that. And who isn't really important as much as what is being said. Again, a good winning streak will fix a lot of problems and lift a lot of spirits. Right now they are a defeated looking team. We will see if AV can be the motivator to get them going or not.


HW, you said that a few players were looking for a change behind the bench, is there any sense as to how short AV's leash is at this point? If anything I see Gillis holding off until the end of the season before making any moves in that regard.



Absolutely no sense at all. I don't have inside info from a management perspective, just a few players letting off steam. I have no idea what the owner or MG are thinking.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:42 pm

herb wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
You're not comparing your ball rec hockey team to this situation are you?


cause I think it might be a bit more intense...just sayin..


No, I'm just staying that teams change over time. Nothing is ever static and attrition is commonplace. So a couple of guys that were good guys on and off the ice didn't return from last year?? Boohoo! Salo was injured half the time anyway, and Malhotra is half blind!

Like Topper said, smells like teen spirit.

It's an ice hockey team, btw! :lol:



beer, ball, what's the difference... :sly: lol

I think its probably somewhere in the middle of cry baby and big deal myself...

Everyone and their dog has noticed the slide since the Boston game. the loss of Salo and Der Hoff change the complexion a lot but not that much as has been pointed out, perhaps something mental is at the heart of it and shouldn't be dismissed too lightly...?
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