what has to happen to get the ship on course?

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paddy
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by paddy » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:39 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Benjo wrote:Wait for Kesler to get back and get a 3C and the team will be fine. No need to sell our depth or our farm in this shortened season when 29 teams are still in the mix for the playoffs. I doubt LA would have done it but Gillis should have been in on the Loktionov deal, he has shot up the NJ depth chart extremely quickly and would have been a great stop gap for our 2nd line.
Right, because ALL this team needs is a 3C. Makes sense. I guess we need a 3rd straight playoff failure due to crappy offense for people to get it.
8 goals in the Stanley Cup Final in 7 games... This team struggled to score down the stretch last yr and into the post season and not much has changed this yr... The last thing this team needs is a deadline deal this isn't a good hockey club and it hasn't been for awhile now...
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:40 pm

Benjo wrote:Wait for Kesler to get back and get a 3C and the team will be fine. No need to sell our depth or our farm in this shortened season when 29 teams are still in the mix for the playoffs. I doubt LA would have done it but Gillis should have been in on the Loktionov deal, he has shot up the NJ depth chart extremely quickly and would have been a great stop gap for our 2nd line.

Actually no..... because if Henrik or Kesler gets hurt the team is fucked and as we've seen one of the shittier clubs in the league. Does 5 - 6- 4 ring a bell ??. Furthermore they can't score goals to save their life and the PP sucks. They are short a RH d -man and have 2 1/2 elite forwards. The good teams have 4 or 5 elite forwards. You are right in that they are lacking a 3rd line centre but they are also lacking another stud up fron that can play the middle in the event of injuries and a solid 4/5 D man who shoots right handed. They need a serious makeover. I'm not sure if Eye Bags is up to the task.

As an asside I wonder how all the meat puppets on hf boards who post all their drivel then hide behind the mods would do where they don't have a constant bodyguard. That place is worse than CDC and that says a lot.
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Blob Mckenzie
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:42 pm

paddy wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:
Benjo wrote:Wait for Kesler to get back and get a 3C and the team will be fine. No need to sell our depth or our farm in this shortened season when 29 teams are still in the mix for the playoffs. I doubt LA would have done it but Gillis should have been in on the Loktionov deal, he has shot up the NJ depth chart extremely quickly and would have been a great stop gap for our 2nd line.
Right, because ALL this team needs is a 3C. Makes sense. I guess we need a 3rd straight playoff failure due to crappy offense for people to get it.
8 goals in the Stanley Cup Final in 7 games... This team struggled to score down the stretch last yr and into the post season and not much has changed this yr... The last thing this team needs is a deadline deal this isn't a good hockey club and it hasn't been for awhile now...
I don't think they are that far off padraig but they need some fairly big tweaks here. There are some pieces to move. They are overloaded with wingers and have a goalie and a 2014 1st rounder. According to the pauser we should trade Ballard for Chris Stewart.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:56 pm

What Gillis needs to do is figure out how to pull off a trade like the Blues did in acquiring Stewart, Shattenkirk, and a draft pick that was used to draft Ty Rattie for 1st overall pick bust Eric Johnson and McClement.

This club is too stale and too predictable, Gillis has taken this core group past their prime. Time to shake the tree.

Problem being, Gillis is just waaaaayy to smart for the other GM's. *sarcasm*
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Benjo » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:43 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Benjo wrote:Wait for Kesler to get back and get a 3C and the team will be fine. No need to sell our depth or our farm in this shortened season when 29 teams are still in the mix for the playoffs. I doubt LA would have done it but Gillis should have been in on the Loktionov deal, he has shot up the NJ depth chart extremely quickly and would have been a great stop gap for our 2nd line.

Actually no..... because if Henrik or Kesler gets hurt the team is fucked and as we've seen one of the shittier clubs in the league. Does 5 - 6- 4 ring a bell ??. Furthermore they can't score goals to save their life and the PP sucks. They are short a RH and -man and have 2 1/2 elite forwards. The good teams have 4 or 5 elite forwards. You are right in that they are lacking a 3rd line centre but they are also lacking another stud up fron that can play the middle in the event of injuries and a solid 4/5 D man who shoots right handed. They need a serious makeover. I'm not sure if Eye Bags is up to the task.

As an asside I wonder how all the meat puppets on hf boards who post all their drivel then hide behind the mods would do where they don't have a constant bodyguard. That place is worse than CDC and that says a lot.
Kesler IS what makes our PP tick, not to mention our #2C not to mention our Selke winner. He IS a big deal and the team suffers when he is out just like most teams suffer when their #2 dominating centre is out. Kesler adds an entire new wrinkle to defending against the Canucks and their powerplay. That and a #3C addition would make this team FINE as I said it would. We could add another RH dman but we already have so much committed to the back end we cannot add more defensemen AND scoring depth especially in this extremely thin market we are seeing right now. Unless you want to trade for ANOTHER Florida player (Matthias?) or hugely overpay we have no choice but to wait out this painful period or hope on a wing and a prayer that Gillis can pull off another Ehrhoff style deal.

LA and St. Louis got extremely lucky that other teams paid a premium for the Johnson brothers, and coincidentally both teams that offloaded them are in the playoffs whereas the teams that acquired them are still out of contention.

I as much as anyone wish that Brown would mix up the fucking PP but the lack of practice time is killing the team. The Sedins thrive on set plays and I as much as anyone wish they had drawn some up while they were screwing around at UBC during the lockout. Not involving Garrison on the 5 on 3 is borderline criminal, I know he doesn't know the teams "plays" yet but surely they could set him up for a 5 on 3 shot. Jensen will not be our PP savior either, if Garrison is not being used because he does not know the plays then there is no way they'll try Jensen IMO.

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:09 pm

paddy wrote:
8 goals in the Stanley Cup Final in 7 games... This team struggled to score down the stretch last yr and into the post season and not much has changed this yr... The last thing this team needs is a deadline deal this isn't a good hockey club and it hasn't been for awhile now...
Paddy, don't you know? It was Lou's fault why we lost not because we only scored 8 goals in 7 games. *sarcasm*

We are middle of the pack in goals for, 15th I believe. That don't win you hockey a lot of hockey games and our goalies can only do so much. When you have $4.5 million forwards who can only get you an empty net goal in 11 games that says something.

Our PP is fucking awful, it has been since the last half of last season in which, in that half, the Canucks had the worst PP in the entire league. As we can see, that trend continues as well as the trend of 'WE CAN'T SCORE"!

But hey, Gillis is a genius! He gave us that impression at his press conference hiring.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Uncle dans leg » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:19 pm

RoyalDude wrote:What Gillis needs to do is figure out how to pull off a trade like the Blues did in acquiring Stewart, Shattenkirk, and a draft pick that was used to draft Ty Rattie for 1st overall pick bust Eric Johnson and McClement.

This club is too stale and too predictable, Gillis has taken this core group past their prime. Time to shake the tree.
I agree although even at the time of the trade everyone was lamenting how one sided it was in the Blues favour.

Not sure what has happened to Edlers confidence but I'm wondering why his game has gone over the cliff.

How about this for a redonkulous trade proposal...

To Buffalo:
Edler
Hansen

To VCR:
Tyler Myers
Steve Ott

Sorts out our right to left handed d-man issues. Edlers offensive upside is countered by Myers physical attributes and ability to eliminate bigger forwards. Myers has also shown some offence in his 1st 2 years before an Edler-like regression. I suspect his problems are coaching related(which doesn't reflect well on the Ruff-fluffers around here)
Ott for Hansen is a wash as well as it helps both teams with organizational weaknesses. Ott is more expensive but brings more to the table.

Cap issues can be Gillmaned I'm sure if need be
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Arachnid » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:21 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
paddy wrote:
8 goals in the Stanley Cup Final in 7 games... This team struggled to score down the stretch last yr and into the post season and not much has changed this yr... The last thing this team needs is a deadline deal this isn't a good hockey club and it hasn't been for awhile now...
Paddy, don't you know? It was Lou's fault why we lost not because we only scored 8 goals in 7 games. *sarcasm*

We are middle of the pack in goals for, 15th I believe. That don't win you hockey a lot of hockey games and our goalies can only do so much. When you have $4.5 million forwards who can only get you an empty net goal in 11 games that says something.

Our PP is fucking awful, it has been since the last half of last season in which, in that half, the Canucks had the worst PP in the entire league. As we can see, that trend continues as well as the trend of 'WE CAN'T SCORE"!

But hey, Gillis is a genius! He gave us that impression at his press conference hiring.
Jesus Christ on a bender Dude do not do the ' *sarcasm*' thing, you want to blane MG for the lethargy of YOUR Vancouver Canucks then fine, blame someone (and not the loss of 17 or AV and is uncreative coaching style) but using the '*sarcasm*' is just beyond gay....what the fuck is wrong with you??!?!?!?!?! :look:
I love every move Jim Benning makes 8-)

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by RoyalDude » Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:35 pm

You're a well read man, Arachnid, a real debonair. *sarcasm*
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Canuck-One » Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:50 pm

[/quote]

UDL's trade idea
How about this for a redonkulous trade proposal...

To Buffalo:
Edler
Hansen

To VCR:
Tyler Myers
Steve Ott


Cap issues can be Gillmaned I'm sure if need be[/quote]

No way that sees the light of day.

Edler > Myers
Hansen > Ott

Myers cap hit is outrageous and on top of it all he hasn't played up to expectations. Edler too has taken a step back but not so far as to not be worth what he earns (see Myers) and he is only going to get better.Ott is just a cement head who can't play anywhere as good as Hansen. There was a time when Ott's brand of hockey was needed here but that time has passed. We have Sestito, Kassian, Weiss, Lapierre and Pinizzotto who are more than capable of taking care of the physical game without Ott's penchant for dumb penalties.

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Canuck-One » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:04 am

It sounds like Ribero is on the block. Washington needs a goalie and we just happen to have two good ones.

To Washington

Schneider/Luongo pick one
Vancouvers 1st & 3rd

To Vancouver

Mike Ribiero
John Carlson
Washington's 1st

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Brick Tamland » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:13 am

Just perusing NHL.com's Canuck stats and there were a few I found them very telling, and at least a little depressing. Apologies to the Advanced Stats crowd if they aren't in-depth enough. :roll:

The Canucks are sitting 14th in both G/G (2.74) and GA/G (2.67) . It doesn't take a genius to figure out what happens if you score the same amount of goals as you give up per game. So a little bit from column A and a little bit from column B will probably help out a lot.

The PP is probably what is killing us the most, it is sitting at 13.6%, good for 27th in the league. The PK is better but still very average at 81%, good for 15th overall. The last stat I found interesting is face-off %, where we sit 23rd at 47.8%. I wonder what would help our face-off %, hmm...?

We've lost 10 games (including overtime/shootout)by 2 goals or less this season, and 7 games by 1 goal. In 2 of the 2 goal games there was an empty net goal, essentially meaning they were 1 goal games. Overall in the 10 loses our PP went 3/32 or 9%, (all the scoring came in 2 games). It stands to reason that if we hadn't been shutout on the PP in 80% of those games we'd probably have a few more points right now. For reference, Kesler played in 4 of the 10 loses, the scoring all came in 2 of those 4 games.

Because the trade market seems to be all but non-existent right now, IMO the best way to get this team on track is to fix the PP.

That's my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by Orcasfan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:28 am

Actually, even though it's true that the "buck stops" at GMMG's desk, I think a GM is only as good as the management team he has assembled. Of course, Gillis has made some excellent choices, like Gilman, but I think he has really fallen down with his scouting team. Most would agree that, with a couple of exceptions, the Canucks scouts have done a woeful job over the years. Gillis has had years to right that ship, and has largely passed on it. If anything, mostly he has made lateral movements, with little benefit (though I'm liking Smyl's impact on college scouting!). One of their big weaknesses is their professional scouting team (Crawford?). These are the guys that sell players like Ballard and Booth to Gillis. Gillis, as GM, does not do the real scouting on these guys. But, like all scouts, they have scored also on guys like Higgins.... :wink:

I'd be interested to hear suggestions of which 3rd C Gillis could have realistically obtained during the off-season. And which R-hand D? Without paying too much? We have to assume that the guy has tried, but the prices are just crazy!

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by BingoTough » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:07 am

Orcasfan wrote:Actually, even though it's true that the "buck stops" at GMMG's desk, I think a GM is only as good as the management team he has assembled. Of course, Gillis has made some excellent choices, like Gilman, but I think he has really fallen down with his scouting team. Most would agree that, with a couple of exceptions, the Canucks scouts have done a woeful job over the years. Gillis has had years to right that ship, and has largely passed on it. If anything, mostly he has made lateral movements, with little benefit (though I'm liking Smyl's impact on college scouting!). One of their big weaknesses is their professional scouting team (Crawford?). These are the guys that sell players like Ballard and Booth to Gillis. Gillis, as GM, does not do the real scouting on these guys. But, like all scouts, they have scored also on guys like Higgins.... :wink:

I'd be interested to hear suggestions of which 3rd C Gillis could have realistically obtained during the off-season. And which R-hand D? Without paying too much? We have to assume that the guy has tried, but the prices are just crazy!
I agree somewhat:
- I'm pretty happy with Gaunce and Jensen
- I'm not happy with Schroeder and never was.
- Hodgson's father's attitude was difficult to know. I don't like giving away the skilled centre, but he's behind Henrik and Kesler. Realistically we wanted a power-forward who projected for top six

Pro-drafting hasn't been great, though the 4th line is always about borderline NHLers. Booth is a disappointment but cost us nothing (and we can get rid of that contract if we want). Glass was good, so too was Torres. I'd love to have both of them around these days. Lappy has been decent as a 4th line centre and has got to be better than our alternatives in that slot.
Ballard is his biggest c0ck up, whether through poor evaluation or failure to manage his coach properly. Ballard's contract and subsequent devaluation lies with Gillis.

Something that would be interesting is to compare the drafting record of people v. close to them year on year. i.e. if they draft 29th how well did those drafting 28th and 30th do? It's no good pointing to the Oilers and claiming they've been drafting geniuses.

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Post by BingoTough » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:42 am

Over the last 10 games, only Florida, Tampa and Nashville have a worse record than the Canucks (NJ and Colorado have equally crap as us). Almost of the quarter of the season spent performing in the bottom 6 of the league. Did AV expect that?

I wonder what our record is since the famous Boston game?

Firing AV (good coach or not) might give this team a nice clean break with the past. It feels like they're stuck and need a jarring change.

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