Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Rumsfeld » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:07 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:So Doc, who WOULD you trade?


This summer I've suggested trading Edler, Bieksa, Booth, high draft picks, and possibly Tanev.

Obviously we'd need a dee coming back if we traded one of those dee (a RHS if it's Bieksa/Tanev).

And this is with an asshole-only shopping list in hand.

Yes, we'd hafta sweeten the pot if we traded Booth, but the idea was to create cap-space for another move.

I also suggested (while the buyout window was open) to take back a bad contract along with a top player.

But yeah, maybe we do that next year....


If you trade Bieksa and especially Edler, you'd need a top-4 D coming back.

Booth is worth exactly nothing right now.

So none of those suggestions would improve our top six, which is where we need improvement the most IMO. And if you trade high picks (a big mistake IMO, considering a rebuild is probably right around the corner), you'd still need to shed serious salary if you get a top forward in return.

So yeah, we need to move a top forward if we want to get bigger and better up front, and out of all our top forwards (Sedins, Kesler, Burr) Burrows seems like the most obvious choice.

Part of being a good GM is knowing when to pull the plug on guys, if you wait 'till they seriously decline you get nothing back and you're stuck with them.*

Our top six has totally sucked the last two-and-a-half playoffs, I'm pretty surprised you'd have a problem with some big changes.




*see Luongo, Roberto
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Strangelove » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:18 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:If you trade Bieksa and especially Edler, you'd need a top-4 D coming back.


Not if you thought Tanev could handle top-4 minutes (and to a lesser extent thought Corrado is NHL-ready).

Hamhuis - Bieksa
Garrison - Tanev
ASSHOLE - Corrado
Alberts/Fistric/Whomever - Weber

ASSHOLE would be a stay-at-home shutdown tweener who could handle some top-4 icetime when needed.

Corrado would see some PP icetime.

Yeah, so a tweener would come cheeper in a trade than an established top-4 guy.

Hell it could even be a YOUNG tweener asshole to satisfy YOUR youth-movement cravings. :wink:

Rumsfeld wrote:Booth is worth exactly nothing right now.


Like I say, Booth is supposed to be 100% by training camp.

Like I say, Booth is tradable if we throw in a pick/retain some salary.

See, if we're gonna bring in a top 6 winger, someone's gotta go to create room.

You say Burrows, I say Booth.

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian/Higgins/Hansen
NEW GUY - Kesler - Burrows

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian/Higgins/Hansen
Booth - Kesler - NEW GUY

OBVIOUSLY Burrows is a WAY better forward than Booth.

Wot say we keep him then EH WOT?

Ummmmm did you want to ADD to the top-6.... or not? :mex:

Rumsfeld wrote:(trading high picks is) a big mistake IMO, considering a rebuild is probably right around the corner


Well see, that's where you're wrong. Image

Rumsfeld wrote:Part of being a good GM is knowing when to pull the plug on guys


... and part of being a good GM is knowing NOT to trade your heart & soul forward when a Cup is within reach.

So yeah, coupla separate deals but basically...

Edler/Bieksa + Booth + 1st-rounder out.

Elite scoring winger + ASSHOLE in.

Or just DROP THE FRICKEN PUCK and pray both Kassian and Booth have career years. :thumbs:
Last edited by Strangelove on Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby 5thhorseman » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:25 pm

We're already "stuck" with our top 6. The time to trade was after the Cup run, a quick retooling ... that window has long passed.

Look forward to a pretender contender for the next few years. We'll need Bo and Hunter to turn into elite players, some astute drafting/trades by GMMG, and a few lucky breaks before we end up on top of the pile again.

Don't get me wrong, I love our Canucks, but any Cup run in the near future will be cinderella-style. Strangely, I prefer it that way.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Strangelove » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:38 pm

Why all the negativity???

Let's compare the one-game-away-from-the-Cup 2010-11 team with next year's squad (as it looks thus far).

Shall we?

***********************************************************************

Sedin – Sedin – Burrows
Raymond – Kesler – Samuelsson
Higgins – Malhotra – Hansen
Torres – Lapierre – Tambellini/Glass

Hamhuis – Bieksa
Edler – Ehrhoff
Ballard – Salo
Alberts – Rome

Luongo/Schneids

***********************************************************************

Sedin – Sedin – Burrows
Booth – Kesler – Kassian
Higgins – Schroeder/Gaunce/Richardson – Hansen
Schroeder/Gaunce/Richardson – Lain - Weise
Sestito

Hamhuis – Bieksa
Edler – Tanev
Garrison - Corrado
Alberts(say) – Weber

Luongo/Lack

***********************************************************************

So all we need is

... that #1 line to prove the shortened season was the problem (hey they DID start very slowly)

... Kassian to play like Samuelsson

... Gaunce to play like Malhotra

... Garrison to play like Salo

... Corrado to play like Ehrhoff

... Lou to return to form

... and Lack to play like Schneider

...




:look:




HEY why do... I... have to play the role of Mr Positive all the time?!! Image
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby TDA Rum » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:40 pm

I agree with you Doc... Canucks will win their division and the Stanley cup...
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:48 pm

TDA Rum wrote:I agree with you Doc... Canucks will win their division and the Stanley cup...

You're dam tootin there skippy
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:00 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:If you trade Bieksa and especially Edler, you'd need a top-4 D coming back.


Not if you thought Tanev could handle top-4 minutes

Ok, I stopped reading right there.

Fell from my chair laughing.

I'm better now.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:32 am

Death
taxes
Nucks not winning the cup.

all 3 things are guaranteed in life.

the 3rd item for a few more years at least.

This team will of course make the playoffs but no change to the core and we expect a different result than the last 2 seasons. I don't think so.

Only significant trades and no one is expendable could change the fortune on this team.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby the Dogsalmon » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:11 am

5thhorseman wrote:We're already "stuck" with our top 6. The time to trade was after the Cup run, a quick retooling ... that window has long passed.

Look forward to a pretender contender for the next few years. We'll need Bo and Hunter to turn into elite players, some astute drafting/trades by GMMG, and a few lucky breaks before we end up on top of the pile again.

Don't get me wrong, I love our Canucks, but any Cup run in the near future will be cinderella-style. Strangely, I prefer it that way.



cant argue with this type of common sense...
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Meds » Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:25 pm

Strangelove wrote:
So all we need is

... Kassian to play like Samuelsson


... and Lack to play like Schneider

:look:



WTF?

We want the guy that is supposed to be our second coming of Bertuzzi (minus Moore) to play like a soft Swedish 20 goal sniper?

And who cares about Lack playing like Schneider. Cory only saw 40 minutes of ice time in the playoffs in 2011. Lou just has to play like Lou (minus games 3, 4, and 6).
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Per » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:04 pm

Reefer2 wrote:This team will of course make the playoffs but no change to the core and we expect a different result than the last 2 seasons. I don't think so.


Kesler being healthy would be significant change.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby rats19 » Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:23 pm

Per wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:This team will of course make the playoffs but no change to the core and we expect a different result than the last 2 seasons. I don't think so.


Kesler being healthy would be significant change.


the team being healthy would be a significant change
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Strangelove » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:01 pm

Meds wrote:WTF?

We want the guy that is supposed to be our second coming of Bertuzzi (minus Moore) to play like a soft Swedish 20 goal sniper?

And who cares about Lack playing like Schneider. Cory only saw 40 minutes of ice time in the playoffs in 2011. Lou just has to play like Lou (minus games 3, 4, and 6).


*sigh*

Okay, let's give this another look...

There is still room for one or two more moves.

Let's say Alberts realizes guys like him are taking a beating due to the artificially low cap this year

... and he loves being a Canuck... so he signs for $700K.

Now, Nonis has somehow painted himself into a corner in the centre of the universe.

He doesn't have the cap space to re-sign both Kadri and Franson.

Re-signing those two would give him his 23 players (13 forwards, 8 dee, 2 goalies)

Rumour is he's now looking to deal Franson, but there are only a handful of teams with cap-room.

Even fewer that can offer the ideal return, considering his dire situation.

Franson is one of only 2 RHS dee the Leaves have (the other one, Holzer, is #7 on the depth chart).

So the ideal return for Leaves would be a RHS proven NHL tweener on a low contract ($1.5m or less).

Enter Chris Tanev.

Canucks upgrade their dee by trading Tanev straight up for Cody Franson. :mex:

Did I mention he's a BC boy who feels he has been screwed over by the Leaves?

Okay, compare this squad to the cup run squad of a few years ago...

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.600m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m) / Dale Weise ($0.750m)
Mike Santorelli ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Cody Franson ($3.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Yannick Weber ($0.650m)
Andrew Alberts ($0.700m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,202,778; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $97,22

Sedin – Sedin – Burrows = Sedin – Sedin – Burrows

C'mon they had a bad last year due to a slow start in a shortened season, Burrows shuffled around.

MAYBE they score 10 less goals, but it's not like they're over-the-hill and older means more experience baby! :thumbs:

EDIT: Sedins (and Kesler) put up a TON of PP points that year, if the PP gets back on track... :thumbs:

Booth – Kesler – Kassian > Raymond – Kesler – Samuelsson

If Booth is healthy he brings much more to the table than Raymond (15 goals that season).

If young Kassian improves somewhat as most expect he could easily be better than Sammy (18 that season)

Plus, and this can not be understated, Kassian is an asshole.

Higgins – Malhotra – Hansen = Higgins – Schroeder – Hansen

Young Schroeder is likely to improve, NO not to Manny-levels, but Higgins & Hansen are better players now.

Sestito - Richardson – Weise < Torres – Lapierre – Glass

But hey it's only the 4th line amirite? :drink:


I'll add here that, Gaunce and Jensen playing on the top line in Utica make for good injury callups...


Hamhuis – Bieksa
Edler – Ehrhoff
Ballard – Salo
Alberts – Rome

vs

Hamhuis – Bieksa
Edler – Franson
Garrison - Corrado
Alberts – Weber


I feel that latter group is the better defensive group but debating the matter would be akin to splitting hairs.

Goaltending, Luongo can go back to 68+ starts as he has done most of his career

... meaning backup is not a big deal.

So sure Schneider was a better backup in 2010-11 than Lack/Eriksson are likely to be in 2013-14.

But who knows and who cares, and besides both Lack and Eriksson are considered stellar.

And so, upon further review, yours truly has decided your Vancouver Canucks will win your 2014 Stanley Cup.
Last edited by Strangelove on Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby JonT21 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:13 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Meds wrote:WTF?

We want the guy that is supposed to be our second coming of Bertuzzi (minus Moore) to play like a soft Swedish 20 goal sniper?

And who cares about Lack playing like Schneider. Cory only saw 40 minutes of ice time in the playoffs in 2011. Lou just has to play like Lou (minus games 3, 4, and 6).


*sigh*

Okay, let's give this another look...

There is still room for one or two more moves.

Let's say Alberts realizes guys like him are taking a beating due to the artificially low cap this year

... and he loves being a Canuck... so he signs for $700K.

Now, Nonis has somehow painted himself into a corner in the centre of the universe.

He doesn't have the cap space to re-sign both Kadri and Franson.

Re-signing those two would give him his 23 players (13 forwards, 8 dee, 2 goalies)

Rumour is he's now looking to deal Franson, but there are only a handful of teams with cap-room.

Even fewer that can offer the ideal return, considering his dire situation.

Franson is one of only 2 RHS dee the Leaves have (the other one, Holzer, is #7 on the depth chart).

So the ideal return for Leaves would be a RHS proven NHL tweener on a low contract ($1.5m or less).

Enter Chris Tanev.

Canucks upgrade their dee by trading Tanev straight up for Cody Franson. :mex:

Did I mention he's a BC boy who feels he has been screwed over by the Leaves?

Okay, compare this squad to the cup run squad of a few years ago...

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
David Booth ($4.250m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m)
Chris Higgins ($2.500m) / Jordan Schroeder ($0.600m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Tom Sestito ($0.750m) / Brad Richardson ($1.150m) / Dale Weise ($0.750m)
Mike Santorelli ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Cody Franson ($3.000m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Yannick Weber ($0.650m)
Andrew Alberts ($0.700m) / Frank Corrado ($0.599m)
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,202,778; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $97,22

Sedin – Sedin – Burrows = Sedin – Sedin – Burrows

C'mon they had a bad last year due to a slow start in a shortened season, Burrows shuffled around.

MAYBE they score 10 less goals, but it's not like they're over-the-hill and older means more experience baby! :thumbs:

Booth – Kesler – Kassian > Raymond – Kesler – Samuelsson

If Booth is healthy he brings much more to the table than Raymond (15 goals that season).

If young Kassian improves somewhat as most expect he could easily be better than Sammy (18 that season)

Plus, and this can not be understated, Kassian is an asshole.

Higgins – Malhotra – Hansen = Higgins – Schroeder – Hansen

Young Schroeder is likely to improve, NO not to Manny-levels, but Higgins & Hansen are better players now.

Richardson – Lain - Weise < Torres – Lapierre – Glass

But hey it's only the 4th line amirite? :drink:


I'll add here that, Gaunce and Jensen playing on the top line in Utica make for good injury callups...


Hamhuis – Bieksa
Edler – Ehrhoff
Ballard – Salo
Alberts – Rome

vs

Hamhuis – Bieksa
Edler – Franson
Garrison - Corrado
Alberts – Weber


I feel that latter group is the better defensive group but debating the matter would be akin to splitting hairs.

Goaltending, Luongo can go back to 68+ starts as he has done most of his career

... meaning whoever plays backup is not a big deal.

So sure Schneider was a better backup in 2010-11 than Lack/Eriksson are likely to be in 2013-14.

But who knows and who cares, and besides both Lack and Eriksson are considered stellar.

And so, upon further review, yours truly has decided your Vancouver Canucks will win your 2014 Stanley Cup.

Thank god there is at least one positive post in this whole god damn website
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:34 pm

Richardson is playing centre, possibly thirdline. The Canucks are in trouble if pipsqueak plays there.
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