Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Fri May 02, 2014 4:13 pm

Gillis claiming that Manny was incapable of playing allowed the Canucks to put Manny on LTIR for the rest of the year.

Manny on LTIR meant that he still got to train with the team, visit with team doctors and trainers and get paid.

Manny on LTIR also gave the Canucks some cap flexibility.

The loss of Manny was not a big one at that time. I recall his play being somewhere between awful and less than mediocre most nights.

Manny on LTIR avoided him being thrown to the Wolves and perhaps the embarrassment of perhaps being scratched by an AHL team.

Maybe it was a line of bullshit. Maybe it was good management. As a manager, I can tell you bullshit is sometimes a part of being a good manager.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Fri May 02, 2014 4:29 pm

Once again, the mollusc is left back peddling when his position is challenged.

and now crying about it.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Fri May 02, 2014 4:43 pm

herb wrote: As a manager, I can tell you bullshit is sometimes a part of being a good manager.

Rarely. I prefer being upfront and honest with my guys. Even if the news is brutal. Sure it may hurt, but you don't wait around for the blowback when the mistress sells the phone tapes and the truth hits. Folks know where they stand.

Never been a fan of the my way or the highway, except for newbs, top down dictates. No reason not to be honest with an experienced crew.

How forthcoming was the Nanaimo mill?

An angle that was never mentioned was Manny's role as player rep to the NHLPA. You would think that he felt the shu8t down by GMMG was so unpalatable, he could have filed a grievance. Lends even more credence that there was genuine concern for Manny's health (along with the convenience of freeing a roster spot). Now there is a story for the grassy knoll.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Fri May 02, 2014 4:45 pm

herb wrote:Gillis claiming that Manny was incapable of playing allowed the Canucks to put Manny on LTIR for the rest of the year.

Manny on LTIR meant that he still got to train with the team, visit with team doctors and trainers and get paid.

Manny on LTIR also gave the Canucks some cap flexibility.

The loss of Manny was not a big one at that time. I recall his play being somewhere between awful and less than mediocre most nights.

Manny on LTIR avoided him being thrown to the Wolves and perhaps the embarrassment of perhaps being scratched by an AHL team.

Maybe it was a line of bullshit. Maybe it was good management. As a manager, I can tell you bullshit is sometimes a part of being a good manager.


Maybe so Herb, although it's been reported he was never put on LTIR that year, only Booth was. Logic would dictate he was but perhaps there was a fine print reason for this.

Listen, this whole conversation started because I suggested Manny was likely "shut down" for cap/roster reasons & HW had never heard that angle. That is all. Don't feed the troll.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Fri May 02, 2014 4:57 pm

ClamRussel wrote: HW had never heard that angle.

Odd, I found her posts from the time the shutdown occurred and she was suggesting he was shut down for cap reasons. Even compared it to Edler/Salo. My guess, she simply forgot.

In fact, as I linked to in a previous post a page back, there was an extensive discussion about it at the time and I even predicted it happening.

Should I post the link again?

Your silent elephant in the room never existed.

You also suggested that Manny's on ice performance did not warrant him loosing his spot, several here, including myself, disagree and noted that Ebbet was passing him on the depth chart.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri May 02, 2014 7:06 pm

Topper wrote:
ClamRussel wrote: HW had never heard that angle.

Odd, I found her posts from the time the shutdown occurred and she was suggesting he was shut down for cap reasons. Even compared it to Edler/Salo. My guess, she simply forgot.

In fact, as I linked to in a previous post a page back, there was an extensive discussion about it at the time and I even predicted it happening.

Should I post the link again?

Your silent elephant in the room never existed.

You also suggested that Manny's on ice performance did not warrant him loosing his spot, several here, including myself, disagree and noted that Ebbet was passing him on the depth chart.



No noon, one repost to a link is enough. I did forget. I am old!
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Fri May 02, 2014 9:01 pm

Topper wrote:
ClamRussel wrote: HW had never heard that angle.

Odd, I found her posts from the time the shutdown occurred and she was suggesting he was shut down for cap reasons. Even compared it to Edler/Salo. My guess, she simply forgot.

In fact, as I linked to in a previous post a page back, there was an extensive discussion about it at the time and I even predicted it happening.

Should I post the link again?

Your silent elephant in the room never existed.

You also suggested that Manny's on ice performance did not warrant him loosing his spot, several here, including myself, disagree and noted that Ebbet was passing him on the depth chart.


Listen, I have no desire to check the database for everyone's take going back years ago. That's your shtick, fill 'yer boots. let me spell this out for you. The conversation about the "shut down" came about because she said she hadn't heard about it. The fact she had & forgot is besides the point and irrelevant. Another straw man diversion, you should get into politics. You'd fit right in.

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby BurningBeard » Fri May 02, 2014 9:49 pm

ClamRussel wrote:The elephant is still there, open your eyes & you'll see it.

Dear Lord, I wish I hadn't! What's wrong with you Clam?

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Strangelove » Fri May 02, 2014 10:18 pm

Right BurningBeard, something wrong with.... Clam! :lol:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Sat May 03, 2014 1:17 am

ClamRussel wrote:The main issue here was not that Malhotra was dispatched off the team, it was the line of bullshit that was fed. While I think he still should have been on the team ahead of Ebbett, you guys disagree.


MG was a spin doctor for sure, he was the Denny Savards of GMs (master spinaramas). I always found it odd that Manny can come back and play vs the Bs in 2011 and play 78 games + playoffs vs kings in 2012, then all the sudden he's a risk to himself in 2013. Manny, don't go walking on the street anymore because u can't see cars coming from your periphery vision. Manny, don't drive cuz u won't be able to see the red lights and u will cause a serious accident. Whatever Dr. Fuckin Mike Gillis. *LOL* Seriously, if MG had a doctor who concluded that Manny was in risk out there, he would have a case; however, it was just MG's opinion, so it was total BS.

As far as Ebbett goes, Ebbett is a servicable player, but he's a fringe NHLer @ best. Ebbett is really resticted as a NHL player; coaches won't throw out him out there vs big strong guys cuz he will get over-powered nor elite skilled guys cuz he's not a good enuff checker. Manny on the other hand, u can throw him out there in just about any situation and he'll matchup quite well (good size to handle the muscle and a good checker to mitigate high octain offence). Sure, Manny may not have been as good as he was before his eye incident, but he still brought something to the table that no one else was able to provide. He was still a good faceoff man, PK guy and a valuable leader in the dressing room. It was pretty clear that when he was kicked off the team, the team lost an edge/swagger. I know Manny was popular in the dressing room as well and although no one would come out and say it, the players probably felt like it was a kick in the balls from management. If they can do that to Manny, what's to say that they won't do that to us if we were in a similar situation? Manny was a leader and played tuff minutes for us, who the heck is going to replace him? Schroeder? Lap-Dawg? Ebbett? We're fucked.

Schroeder is too small, too green and he can't really play the 3rd like checking role like Manny. As much as I liked Lap-Dawg, he was totally played out his comfort zone with Manny gone and when Kes got injured again. Lappy was a liability during that time, but he was pretty much all we had. Ebbett vs Manny? It's no contest. Manny played like 70 games for the Canes and they made him an Assistant Captain almost immediately; Ebbett on the other hand is back with an AHL team. Their careers speaks for themselves, Manny is only like 2 years older and has played over 900 games in the NHL, Ebbett has barely played 200.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ukcanuck » Sat May 03, 2014 1:52 am

Perhaps the story was different amongst general managers, but the public perception created by telling the world that manny was done and a danger to himself on the ice, created two stories. One that Gillis was a human being that cares for his players above the call of duty, which seems like a big ego stroke now. And the other, that saw manny go cap in hand and convince another team to give him one more chance.

It wasn't right. once it was deemed that cap issues were an issue- waive him or trade him or quietly put him on LTIR. Don't throw doubt on the guys ability to get back on the ice in a productive capacity.

Now that manny has played 70 games, it makes Gillis look even more like a self serving ass.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Sat May 03, 2014 2:42 am

Being medically cleared to play, as Manny was, he could not go on LTIR. The CBA does not allow it.

Manny had a toddler and a week old baby at home, he had just missed two games while the baby was born. I suspect the long term concern for his vision was real. You can not come out and make public statements that the players health is a concern when it is complete BS. The player would have plenty of recourse through the NHL and the NHLPA.

I suspect Manny's vision met a standard that a Doc would clear him to play but offer the caveat to the patient that there was high risk of long term damage with the right hit and without further healing. A bit like a player continuing on after multiple concussions. A walking skating one hit wonder.

Combine that with the need for a roster spot and Manny's 13th forward level of play and voila.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ukcanuck » Sat May 03, 2014 6:59 am

Topper wrote:Being medically cleared to play, as Manny was, he could not go on LTIR. The CBA does not allow it.

Manny had a toddler and a week old baby at home, he had just missed two games while the baby was born. I suspect the long term concern for his vision was real. You can not come out and make public statements that the players health is a concern when it is complete BS. The player would have plenty of recourse through the NHL and the NHLPA.

I suspect Manny's vision met a standard that a Doc would clear him to play but offer the caveat to the patient that there was high risk of long term damage with the right hit and without further healing. A bit like a player continuing on after multiple concussions. A walking skating one hit wonder.

Combine that with the need for a roster spot and Manny's 13th forward level of play and voila.


I don't think Gillis was BSing, obviously Manny had vision problems, I just think he handled Manny as an asset rather than a person. I don't fault a team for putting itself before the employee per se, but letting him go without any return would have been the selfless act that Gillis could have taken a bow for..
But to be fair maybe MG did try to move him and kept that off the public record.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Meds » Sat May 03, 2014 8:02 am

ClamRussel wrote:The main issue here was not that Malhotra was dispatched off the team, it was the line of bullshit that was fed. While I think he still should have been on the team ahead of Ebbett, you guys disagree.


The numbers disagree.....other than faceoffs.

Clam wrote:Its subjective. I am aware he wasn't playing great at the time, I believe he would have played through it and he did just that.


Over a year later, yes he did. But he ended up on a PTO with an AHL team to do it, if I'm not mistaken.

Clam wrote:I'm not even saying he'd be on the team now. If you want to believe the story that was dished out then open wide.


I don't think anyone here is suggesting they believe Gillis' line about Malhotra being "unsafe". It was a business move plain and simple.

Clam wrote:Troller has a history of tendencies towards straw man arguments so its no surprise that this conversation shifted to Manny's performance. I don't recall that factor coming up in the press conference. Arguing that his play didn't warrant being on the roster (and someone had to go) backs up my assertion that the official story doesn't pass the smell test. Only a troll can argue against someone (repeatedly) while inadvertently supporting their case.


I would say that his performance on the ice was at the center of the original decision. When Gillis said he saw Manny being blindsided and not seeing things coming the way he used to. Being unable to safely compete. How players conduct themselves on the ice is all a factor attributable to performance. You think Gillis consulted Madame Cleo or something and asked for a reading on Manny's thought process and whether or not he was mentally and physically capable of playing safely? No. He judged it all by his performance on the ice.

I'm not sure any of the rebuttals you have received here over this topic are "straw man" arguments (you use that term too much btw).....everyone here agrees that shutting him down versus trading him or waiving him was a business move to clear cap space in order to make room for Kesler's return from injury. Manny was chosen because his performance was below the level of Ebbet, Schroeder, and Lapierre, at the time. Maybe he couldn't be traded, maybe Gillis really did hope Manny would stick around and still be part of the team. Who knows the actual plan for Malhotra beyond that season. If Manny couldn't be traded then whatever, should have waived him, it was a dick move, but it was performance based.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Sun May 04, 2014 1:49 pm

Meds wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:The main issue here was not that Malhotra was dispatched off the team, it was the line of bullshit that was fed. While I think he still should have been on the team ahead of Ebbett, you guys disagree.


The numbers disagree.....other than faceoffs.


Do you think those numbers just mayyyybe had something to do w/ how he was being used? He wasn't playing great but he was also taking defensive zone faceoffs then being pulled off the ice the majority of the time. Ebbett's were fantastic though, right?

Meds wrote:
Clam wrote:Its subjective. I am aware he wasn't playing great at the time, I believe he would have played through it and he did just that.


Over a year later, yes he did. But he ended up on a PTO with an AHL team to do it, if I'm not mistaken.


Your point is...? It seems reasonable to see how he did after sitting out for a year. Obviously the plan was for the Hurricanes to sign if he was capable, much like what Vancouver attempted to do w/ Prospal. It still didn't change the fact he was a useful player for the Canes.

Meds wrote:
Clam wrote:I'm not even saying he'd be on the team now. If you want to believe the story that was dished out then open wide.


I don't think anyone here is suggesting they believe Gillis' line about Malhotra being "unsafe". It was a business move plain and simple.


Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Moronic statements like it was Kesler vs Manny for the sake of being contrary. Ask yourself this, if no one is believing that (which isn't true, but let's pretend it is), what is it that twisted this into the appearance of an argument? All I said was that it was suspicious & convenient timing when it went down. Cam Barker could have been dispatched, there was other options than the official story/business move.

Meds wrote:
Clam wrote:Troller has a history of tendencies towards straw man arguments so its no surprise that this conversation shifted to Manny's performance. I don't recall that factor coming up in the press conference. Arguing that his play didn't warrant being on the roster (and someone had to go) backs up my assertion that the official story doesn't pass the smell test. Only a troll can argue against someone (repeatedly) while inadvertently supporting their case.


I would say that his performance on the ice was at the center of the original decision. When Gillis said he saw Manny being blindsided and not seeing things coming the way he used to. Being unable to safely compete. How players conduct themselves on the ice is all a factor attributable to performance. You think Gillis consulted Madame Cleo or something and asked for a reading on Manny's thought process and whether or not he was mentally and physically capable of playing safely? No. He judged it all by his performance on the ice.

I'm not sure any of the rebuttals you have received here over this topic are "straw man" arguments (you use that term too much btw).....everyone here agrees that shutting him down versus trading him or waiving him was a business move to clear cap space in order to make room for Kesler's return from injury. Manny was chosen because his performance was below the level of Ebbet, Schroeder, and Lapierre, at the time. Maybe he couldn't be traded, maybe Gillis really did hope Manny would stick around and still be part of the team. Who knows the actual plan for Malhotra beyond that season. If Manny couldn't be traded then whatever, should have waived him, it was a dick move, but it was performance based.


That's exactly what they are meds. Perhaps that term is being used because that bullshit form of debating is being used too much (not by you). Think about that. It's not accidental, if it continues, I'll call it out. There shouldn't be a need for rebuttals over this issue if we all agree he was shut down for business reasons as you say. The only thing on the table should really be if Manny was the right call over Barker (2 assists in 14 gp total), Pinizzotto (how did he pan out?), Ebbett...maybe Schroeder (waiver exempt...not exactly deployed in an effective manner for him to potentially succeed). Losing Volpatti was a waste.
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