Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Thu May 01, 2014 1:00 pm

So the mollusk would have Manny over Kesler in the lineup. Recall, Manny's comeback from injury stink, stank, stunk and moving him out the roster was best for all concerned, including Manny. At that point he was even being displaced from own zone faceoffs.

It was no case of an elephant in the room, the guys play stank and it was clear to all watching that Manny was being blindsided by opponents. If anything, Manny was kept active too long as a placeholder in Kesler's absence.

Didn't a similar convenient IR swap scenario occur with Bieksa and Edler the previous year and we all mumbled cap management.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Thu May 01, 2014 2:01 pm

Topper wrote:So the mollusk would have Manny over Kesler in the lineup. Recall, Manny's comeback from injury stink, stank, stunk and moving him out the roster was best for all concerned, including Manny. At that point he was even being displaced from own zone faceoffs.

It was no case of an elephant in the room, the guys play stank and it was clear to all watching that Manny was being blindsided by opponents. If anything, Manny was kept active too long as a placeholder in Kesler's absence.

Didn't a similar convenient IR swap scenario occur with Bieksa and Edler the previous year and we all mumbled cap management.


Keeping repeating that drivel to yourself troller, maybe you'll believe it eventually.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/nhl-player-faceoff-wins-by-age/2012/
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Thu May 01, 2014 9:44 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:So the mollusk would have Manny over Kesler in the lineup. Recall, Manny's comeback from injury stink, stank, stunk and moving him out the roster was best for all concerned, including Manny. At that point he was even being displaced from own zone faceoffs.

It was no case of an elephant in the room, the guys play stank and it was clear to all watching that Manny was being blindsided by opponents. If anything, Manny was kept active too long as a placeholder in Kesler's absence.

Didn't a similar convenient IR swap scenario occur with Bieksa and Edler the previous year and we all mumbled cap management.


Keeping repeating that drivel to yourself troller, maybe you'll believe it eventually.

Something odd with the site you linked to, they have Mike Santorelli taking taking nearly as many faceoffs for Vancouver that season as Malhotra. Funny, Santorelli wasn't a Canuck then. Oh well, I'm sure the rest of their data is spot on :lol:

Wow, not bad considering how little he was utilized. Hank took nearly a third of all face offs, a platoon of Burrows, Schroeder and Ebbet over 25% and Lappy nearly 20%

Your point mollusk?

HW, you shouldn't be surprised now because you certainly were not surprised then.
Hockey Widow wrote:It has always amazed me that when we have someone on a big contract coming back, or when a return of a player could mean sending someone down on waivers, or have a fine rookie return to the farm that Gillis and Co. find a way to move a body without causing a major disruption. Not that first time IR seems to have come to our aid in unexpected ways. Remember Edler needing back surgery just as Salo was ready to come back. Not saying Edler didn't need surgery but the timing seems planned. Hold off on surgery until Sami is ready then get it done so Edler can be ready for the playoffs. Surgery that they were going to wait until the off season to do. But doing it when they did allowed them to keep all D men at a time when most of us thought one had to go.

Now Manny has vision problems to the point where his safety on the ice is in question. Seriously, like is this sudden or has it been in question all along? Suddenly after returning for the Finals against Boston, all of last year and the first 11 games and now he is at risk because he can't see well enough on the ice. Seriously?!?!? Was he injured? Did he re injure the eye? Has he just realized his vision is causing problems? Like holy smoke batman...
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu May 01, 2014 9:59 pm

Ya, i can see it. Manny could too apparently :mrgreen:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Fri May 02, 2014 1:10 am

Topper wrote:Your point mollusk?


The point is you're poisoning the truth. Malhotra wasn't at his former ability by any stretch. However, he wasn't exactly being deployed much by AV either. He was taking almost all key defensive zone face offs then getting off the ice. His FOs were solid as usual (despite your disinformation) and he was still successful at killing penalties.

“During those nine games I played (in 2012-13) I felt more confident on the ice,” said Malhotra. “But after being shut down you go over and over in your mind, ‘How did I really feel out there?’ The more I thought about it, I knew I felt good. And over the summer working with a skating coach and training with guys, I had that confidence even more. At that point, I knew I felt like myself again.”


http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Manny+Malhotra+perseverance+rewarded/9793562/story.html
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ukcanuck » Fri May 02, 2014 5:59 am

Topper wrote:So the mollusk would have Manny over Kesler in the lineup. Recall, Manny's comeback from injury stink, stank, stunk and moving him out the roster was best for all concerned, including Manny. At that point he was even being displaced from own zone faceoffs.

It was no case of an elephant in the room, the guys play stank and it was clear to all watching that Manny was being blindsided by opponents. If anything, Manny was kept active too long as a placeholder in Kesler's absence.

Didn't a similar convenient IR swap scenario occur with Bieksa and Edler the previous year and we all mumbled cap management.

In this scenario, the right thing to do in my opinion would be to give Malhotra the choice of a waiver or trade.

It is the player's career and if he had medical clearance to play... Gillis should not have stood in the way.

Edit: 20/20 hindsight disclaimer alert.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Fri May 02, 2014 7:20 am

ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:Your point mollusk?


Malhotra wasn't at his former ability by any stretch.


So where is the elephant in the room?

It was widely discussed here that the roster would be massaged, as it had been done many times before, and that Manny, due to his limited ability, was a likely candidate to end up on the out.

From Coco
canuckscorner.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=158839#p158839

Malhotra. He's nothing more than a 4th line specialist at this point.......

Ultimately I'd like to see the Canucks have better options than Malhotra and Ebbett but they're not completely useless and don't forget we're talking about the current 12/13th forwards on the team. They'll be pushed down even farther once players are healthy.

This is not to say the Canucks should send Schroeder down when Kesler returns just to save Ebbett but it's in the Canucks best interest to figure out a way to massage the roster without losing someone.


My response
canuckscorner.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=158841#p158841

Topper wrote:
coco_canuck wrote:This is not to say the Canucks should send Schroeder down when Kesler returns just to save Ebbett but it's in the Canucks best interest to figure out a way to massage the roster without losing someone.

Ebbett or Malhotra could block a shot in practice............. :wink:

or Volpattii and Barker could be sent out


Do you remember the Volpatti/Pinizzotto mix up.

More from Coco
canuckscorner.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=157225#p157225

I'd agree that Ebbett is a better even-strength player than Malhotra at this point so there's reason to dress him over Manny
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Fri May 02, 2014 9:08 am

To this day Malhotra is one of the top faceoff men in the league, solid defensively, he has shown in Carolina he is still a better player than his deployment by AV would indicate. In terms of a 4th line center, Ebbett isn't even close to Malhotra in terms of face offs & checking. Malhotra was no longer capable of holding the 3 spot, where as Ebbett could play up in the lineup. But this isn't about Manny's ability is it? That's not how this was sold.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Fri May 02, 2014 9:20 am

It was clear to many here that Manny was a 12/13th forward at the time and that several here were not surprised by his placement. In fact many of us predicted such.

The degree of GMMG's shut down was the only surprise and indicates the severity of Manny's injury. I don't doubt there was genuine concern for Manny's long term well being.

To suggest there was an unspoken elephant in the room is a fallacy.

A year and a half ago, on the Vancouver roster, Manny was on par with Ebbett so the roster moves were not surprising. To suggest that the player he is for Carolina is the same as the player he was for the Canucks a year and a half ago is asinine at best.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Meds » Fri May 02, 2014 9:28 am

I can't believe we are rehashing Gillis' handling of Malhotra again.....

Bottom line was that, as was said at the time, Andrew "The Hobbit" Ebbet was an all around more effective player than Malhotra. That was saying a lot.

Gillis is a 100% smoke and mirrors guy, always has been. I wouldn't shocked to find out that his plan was to shut Manny down for the year, keep him training ("at Manny's request"), and then, as it was Manny's final contract year, re-sign him at a lesser rate to be our 4th line center and defensive specialist. But who knows. The hitch in this theory is if Manny hated the idea and wasn't going to play ball, then why not trade him? Even for a 4th round pick or something. Don't bother with all the "he's unsafe out there" bullshit in the first place. Sit down, tell him what's up, tell him how you feel, and then tell him we're going to trade you rather than be complete assholes. With those options I have to think Gillis actually believed his own story.

Malhotra and Ballard will forever remain a mystery to me with Gillis. Both of them his acquisitions that had become "unusable" for this team, and he would sooner "lay one off" and buyout the other, rather than admit he was wrong and make a trade that may have seemed like something that was less than market value. It's like someone coming up to you and saying, "Hey, you know that car you are paying $100 to have a wrecker haul off to the yard? Well I'll give you $50 for it, I'll come pick it up and take it away so I can part it out." Gillis would probably say, "Fuck you, if I'm not gonna let you make a profit off of something of mine, I'd rather throw money away than make some and let you make more."
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Fri May 02, 2014 12:49 pm

Topper wrote:A year and a half ago, on the Vancouver roster, Manny was on par with Ebbett so the roster moves were not surprising. To suggest that the player he is for Carolina is the same as the player he was for the Canucks a year and a half ago is asinine at best.


No one suggested that, but it proves something...that he was a better player than the situation he was put in. He was struggling but the Carolina example is proof that he just needed more time and some responsibility and icetime. He was fighting the puck no doubt but the proof is in the pudding, the official story doesn't hold water.

The elephant is still there.

Meds wrote:Malhotra and Ballard will forever remain a mystery to me with Gillis. Both of them his acquisitions that had become "unusable" for this team, and he would sooner "lay one off" and buyout the other, rather than admit he was wrong and make a trade that may have seemed like something that was less than market value. It's like someone coming up to you and saying, "Hey, you know that car you are paying $100 to have a wrecker haul off to the yard? Well I'll give you $50 for it, I'll come pick it up and take it away so I can part it out." Gillis would probably say, "Fuck you, if I'm not gonna let you make a profit off of something of mine, I'd rather throw money away than make some and let you make more."


Apples & oranges. Had Malhotra not had the eye injury its conceivable we would have won the Cup. That was a major hit to the team. Between him & Kesler we were deadly on the draw and on the PK. Malhotra and Torres were as effective a 3rd line as there was at the time.

I wanted them to stand by Manny, he brought leadership to the room & his departure left a void. Hopefully they can bring him back as a coach someday. Put him in charge of improving faceoffs and the PK etc.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Fri May 02, 2014 1:32 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
Topper wrote:A year and a half ago, on the Vancouver roster, Manny was on par with Ebbett so the roster moves were not surprising. To suggest that the player he is for Carolina is the same as the player he was for the Canucks a year and a half ago is asinine at best.


No one suggested that, but it proves something...that he was a better player than the situation he was put in. He was struggling but the Carolina example is proof that he just needed more time and some responsibility and icetime. He was fighting the puck no doubt but the proof is in the pudding, the official story doesn't hold water.

The elephant is still there.

No, The guy stunk and couldn't hold his spot on tight roster. He was displaced by a utility 13th forward in Ebbett and couldn't compete for minutes with Lappy and Schoeder.

Where do you free up the roster spots. Please tell us mollusk.

Your Canuck roster is getting worse as you keep making these assertions.

Kassian on the first line without learning two way play, Sestito on the 1st unit PP, Diaz QB'ing the defence on the PP, and now patience keeping old blind man Manny around for another go.

Your revisionist history makes RD look credible. Do you believe the roster is unlimited?

As for the unspoken elephant in the room, is that how you refer to HW, Meds, Coco, myself and several others who saw the move coming?

Check the record, I provided links above, there was plenty of discussion at the time.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby herb » Fri May 02, 2014 2:20 pm

After the eye injury Manny was a shadow of his former self. Maybe he is a bit better now than that sad old dog we witnessed for several months, but I'd wager that Santorelli and Richardson are both far superior players to present-day Malhotra.

In 2012, Manny lost his job to Lapierre and Ebbett. Maybe the move to shut him down was a dick move, but the Canucks were his employers and made a business decision for whatever reason(s).

Manny got paid $7.5M here (nearly half of his career earnings) for one good season for Chrissakes. Too bad he got injured. Oh well.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby donlever » Fri May 02, 2014 2:29 pm

...we can wax poetic and wish it were different but generally speaking in the big business world (which the NHL clearly is) dick moves are made on a daily basis to better either your hand or the one that feeds you.

Such is life in the big, bad city.

Plus, as herb intimates, Manny has a pocketful of cash and certainly doesn't need our empathy.

I hope Gillis was thinking of the team in this instance.

Doing otherwise appears to have contributed to his fall from grace.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby ClamRussel » Fri May 02, 2014 3:40 pm

The main issue here was not that Malhotra was dispatched off the team, it was the line of bullshit that was fed. While I think he still should have been on the team ahead of Ebbett, you guys disagree. Its subjective. I am aware he wasn't playing great at the time, I believe he would have played through it and he did just that. I'm not even saying he'd be on the team now. If you want to believe the story that was dished out then open wide. Troller has a history of tendencies towards straw man arguments so its no surprise that this conversation shifted to Manny's performance. I don't recall that factor coming up in the press conference. Arguing that his play didn't warrant being on the roster (and someone had to go) backs up my assertion that the official story doesn't pass the smell test. Only a troll can argue against someone (repeatedly) while inadvertently supporting their case.
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