Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby SKYO » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:26 pm

Hockey Widow wrote: If our identity is built around them [Sedins] then we need to get back into the mold of building like teams like Chicago or Pittsburg or Detroit. Skill and secondary scoring to support their game. Enough team toughness to take care of business. Great goaltending.

We can't play bruise hockey for a whole season and playoffs. We are not built that way.


Yup and that starts with acquiring Keith Yandle or Dan Boyle this offseason.

Then two lethal snipers, and then inject some much needed youth/talented young guns, either one or two of Horvat, Shinkaruk, Gaunce or Jensen.

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:56 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:MG first tried to build a team with skill, discipline and enough team toughness to be a contender. We got within one game of winning it all. The series against Boston then the 4 and out against LA made him change his focus. He has been chasing the ghosts of 2011 trying to build teams that match that mold and we have no real identity, no swagger. As long as you have the Sedins you can't build a team in the mold of Boston, LA, SJS, Anaheim.

This is not an anti Sedin rant. I love the Sedins and am thrilled they are locked up for four more years. If our identity is built around them then we need to get back into the mold of building like teams like Chicago or Pittsburg or Detroit. Skill and secondary scoring to support their game. Enough team toughness to take care of business. Great goaltending.

We can't play bruise hockey for a whole season and playoffs. We are not built that way.


Pretty sure Gillis has been talking about adding toughness for a few years now (before 2011).

Yours truly has said for years that if you have the Sedins in your top 6, you must add size/toughness to that 6

(and as much as possible throughout the lineup).

Yours truly has criticized Gillis for years for not being successful in this stated goal.

Of course it's not an easy task to accomplish... every team wants size/toughness + skill.

Assholes.

This past summer many of us were saying this season would hinge of the return of Kesler + Booth to the top 6

... along with Kassian stepping into that role.

Obviously that hasn't happened as far as Kassian and Booth (Burrows being snake-bitten/injured hasn't helped).

I think it's clear to everyone that Gillis is presently trying to trade a top-4 dee for a top-6 physical forward.

Not an easy trade to make in this day & age.

I thought our identity this year was that of a high-energy hard-working defensively-conscious fore-checking team.

A nice blend of skill + "team toughness".

Unfortunately, the failure of Booth, Kassian, and Burrows to perform as top-sixers has been killing us.

Still, it's been a roller-coaster ride thus far (highs and lows).

At this point the goal should be to sneak into the playoffs and hope to get on a roll

... without sacrificing the future in a trade.

Trading a top-4 dee+ for a youngish physical top-6 forward is key.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:13 pm

Strangelove wrote:Trading a top-4 dee+ for a youngish physical top-6 forward is key.


I have said this for a while (Well not exactly these words but close enough), trade Edler and you even make the team better.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Diehard1 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:56 pm

ClamRussel wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:
I didn't post angry, hell this year I really don't care as much, but I did post the truth. :mrgreen:

They still suck balls.


I'd hazard a guess that you haven't been a Nucks fan for more than 15 years. This is not sucking, the 80's and 90's were sucking. I'm too young to have watched in the 70's but they sucked then too.

This is still a playoff team and they should make it rather easily given their upcoming schedule. They suck balls if they were Edmonton, Calgary, Florida or Buffalo, not because they are a middle of the road team.


Not sure how you can lump the entire 90s into the suck. I happen to have loved the first half of that decade for this team. It was a coming of age. Linden entered the 90s w/ his 3rd season into the league at 20yrs of age; Quinn engineered the rebuilding of this team w/ savvy deals like the Butcher/Quinn trade which landed Courntall, Ronning, Momesso & Dirk among other deals; they landed their first bonafide superstar in Bure shortly after, they had several dominant seasons including a magical run to the finals, their first 50 goals scorer & major trophy winners. It all unfolded w/ the sale of the team to McCaw who fucked them at every turn...I suppose the beginning of the end was the handing of the keys to Arthur however (building a new team w/o the means to do so, bringing in the NBA to help pay for it and subsequently losing control of the franchise)...which led to the Gretzky snub and the Messier-spite-signing and subsequent Quinn firing...McCaw+Messier=3 solid seasons of shit. Following that it was an upwards trajectory towards more solid seasons w/ the Westcoast Express. They completely fell short of playoff expectations for sure but that era certainly didn't suck.

So I'd go as far as to say w/ 7 out 10 seasons they didn't suck. A roller coaster ride for sure but the 90s were alright in my books. I too lived through the Canucks in the 80s so I feel your pain there.


You are correct, the early 90's were solid. Winning the division, Bure, McLean - my favourite player for a couple of seasons was actually Paul Reinhart after he came over from the Flames. It all went downhill when Mogilny and Messier came in, the team played way worse than they should have and were god awful for the last few years of the decade when they picked Allen 4th overall and then the twins. I still remember guys like Josh Holden and Ryan Bonni as top prospects. I remember Jan Hlavac as the supposed saviour of the second line. I also remember how when Ohlund came over he looked head and shoulders better than any other dman we had at the time. Sad years before the Naslund era started.

Regardless, young Nuck fans have had 12 or so good years of a competitive team, they don't remember the bad times. This team has issues, no question, but they do not suck shit. They are an average to above average team in a brutal division. Very good goalies, very good D, too thin up front. They either need a guy like Kassian to step up and score 20 to 25, or they need to pick up somebody who can.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Arachnid » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:31 am

Diehard1 wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:I'd hazard a guess that you haven't been a Nucks fan for more than 15 years. This is not sucking, the 80's and 90's were sucking. I'm too young to have watched in the 70's but they sucked then too.

This is still a playoff team and they should make it rather easily given their upcoming schedule. They suck balls if they were Edmonton, Calgary, Florida or Buffalo, not because they are a middle of the road team.


Not sure how you can lump the entire 90s into the suck. I happen to have loved the first half of that decade for this team. It was a coming of age. Linden entered the 90s w/ his 3rd season into the league at 20yrs of age; Quinn engineered the rebuilding of this team w/ savvy deals like the Butcher/Quinn trade which landed Courntall, Ronning, Momesso & Dirk among other deals; they landed their first bonafide superstar in Bure shortly after, they had several dominant seasons including a magical run to the finals, their first 50 goals scorer & major trophy winners. It all unfolded w/ the sale of the team to McCaw who fucked them at every turn...I suppose the beginning of the end was the handing of the keys to Arthur however (building a new team w/o the means to do so, bringing in the NBA to help pay for it and subsequently losing control of the franchise)...which led to the Gretzky snub and the Messier-spite-signing and subsequent Quinn firing...McCaw+Messier=3 solid seasons of shit. Following that it was an upwards trajectory towards more solid seasons w/ the Westcoast Express. They completely fell short of playoff expectations for sure but that era certainly didn't suck.

So I'd go as far as to say w/ 7 out 10 seasons they didn't suck. A roller coaster ride for sure but the 90s were alright in my books. I too lived through the Canucks in the 80s so I feel your pain there.


You are correct, the early 90's were solid. Winning the division, Bure, McLean - my favourite player for a couple of seasons was actually Paul Reinhart after he came over from the Flames. It all went downhill when Mogilny and Messier came in, the team played way worse than they should have and were god awful for the last few years of the decade when they picked Allen 4th overall and then the twins. I still remember guys like Josh Holden and Ryan Bonni as top prospects. I remember Jan Hlavac as the supposed saviour of the second line. I also remember how when Ohlund came over he looked head and shoulders better than any other dman we had at the time. Sad years before the Naslund era started.

Regardless, young Nuck fans have had 12 or so good years of a competitive team, they don't remember the bad times. This team has issues, no question, but they do not suck shit. They are an average to above average team in a brutal division. Very good goalies, very good D, too thin up front. They either need a guy like Kassian to step up and score 20 to 25, or they need to pick up somebody who can.


oh just fuck off will yah
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:24 am

There was a time when Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa were not just mouthy, but also willing combatants.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:49 am

Topper wrote:There was a time when Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa were not just mouthy, but also willing combatants.


Their best days are behind them, just like the Sedins, just like Luongo. You win with your best players and Mike Gillis , outside of Hamhius and Tanev has not added to the core group, especially at forward.
Our offence only go when The Sedins, Kesler and Burrows go. Unfortunately they peaked 3 years ago and since have been on downward spiral as being the guys to get it done for us. Gillis has dropped the ball big time in the department of adding that ever so missing top 6 offensive threat. I like Horvat but but This team would have faired better had they traded Schneids for a good young player who can help now like O'Reilly, Evander Kane, Ryan Johansen etc.

The slow boat to china development of Kassian hasn't helped the Canucks 'current' situation. Like the Schneids trading chip the CoHo trading chip should have returned better current help to the current core group. Toss in letting Erhoff walk in the name of Keith Ballard this is why we are no longer at the level of our peers - the Blackhawks and Bruins anymore. Devastating miscalculations by Gillis has put us in glorious .500 hockey. He really needed to make that Brent Burns like trade and Logan Couture like draft pick in his 6 years as our GM and he has yet to do that other than I guess the Hamhius and Tanev pick ups but those ain't exactly gonna solve our number 1 nemesis - scoring goals
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:34 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Topper wrote:There was a time when Kesler, Burrows and Bieksa were not just mouthy, but also willing combatants.


Their best days are behind them, just like the Sedins, just like Luongo. You win with your best players and Mike Gillis , outside of Hamhius and Tanev has not added to the core group, especially at forward.
Our offence only go when The Sedins, Kesler and Burrows go. Unfortunately they peaked 3 years ago and since have been on downward spiral as being the guys to get it done for us. Gillis has dropped the ball big time in the department of adding that ever so missing top 6 offensive threat. I like Horvat but but This team would have faired better had they traded Schneids for a good young player who can help now like O'Reilly, Evander Kane, Ryan Johansen etc.

The slow boat to china development of Kassian hasn't helped the Canucks 'current' situation. Like the Schneids trading chip the CoHo trading chip should have returned better current help to the current core group. Toss in letting Erhoff walk in the name of Keith Ballard this is why we are no longer at the level of our peers - the Blackhawks and Bruins anymore. Devastating miscalculations by Gillis has put us in glorious .500 hockey. He really needed to make that Brent Burns like trade and Logan Couture like draft pick in his 6 years as our GM and he has yet to do that other than I guess the Hamhius and Tanev pick ups but those ain't exactly gonna solve our number 1 nemesis - scoring goals


This is very reasoned RD. if by next season none of our prospects have developed to the point of actually filling at least one top six role then I think MG's time should all be but up. Our goaltending continues to be good. Our defence is solid and with the addition of Stanton and Corrado on the rise I think we should be fine on the back end.

But up front has been MG's failing. 2011, before Manny got hurt, was the best all round team we had. Other contenders lose key significant pieces yet keep contending. MG has not been able to get us back to that point.

I like our team much better than in the bad years but it isn't' enough anymore to be a middle of the pack team with a chance to win in the playoffs if everything goes our way. I really do want to get back to being elite. I don't have dire predictions as I think we have a decent core but we need to start supporting them better and we need to start the process of slowly changing pieces of that core and inserting new blood. Teams that can make changes year to year of their core seem to always be at or near the top.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby BladesofSteel » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:56 am

Good post RD.

This is by no means a season lost. Or even an era lost, for that matter.

This is however, ALL on Gillis. He has painted himself into a corner and now needs to pull of a blockbuster deal of sorts in order 'retool' this core in prep for another long playoff run. The players have shown a commitment to the new coaching staff and system, it's now time for management to show a commitment to the players that winning is the ultimate goal.

Without sounding melodramatic, this season could be a turning point in this era. If Gillis isn't able to bring in a cavalry needed for another playoff run, it could very well be all downhill from here.

It's not too late, but Gillis has not done himself any favors.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:50 am

RoyalDude wrote:The slow boat to china development of Kassian hasn't helped the Canucks 'current' situation

Part of the reason I would have liked to have seen one or two of Gaunce/Horvat/Shrinkwrap developing in the lineup during this lost season in cap hell.

RoyalDude wrote:CoHo trading chip

More cow chip than trading chip. Recall his preferential treatment just to get the value they did from him.

RoyalDude wrote:Toss in letting Erhoff walk

Erhoff played the market and went for top dollar that was not affordable to Gillis.

It is interesting that during the 2004 lockout the Canucks received a huge boost with Bieksa, Burrows and Kesler having an extra year in the AHL to develop while the 2012 lockout cost them a season of players at their playing prime and placed them into cap hell dealing with a veteran lineup. The shrunken cap constrained the ability fill role positions. Given that, while I appreciate the push to win, I would have liked to see more development going on in the Canuck lineup.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby RoyalDude » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:26 pm

Topper wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Toss in letting Erhoff walk

Erhoff played the market and went for top dollar that was not affordable to Gillis.

.


Money is not an issue with Aquilini. That decision was Gillis. The team had no problem spending $9 million a year on Ballard and Booth combined. That's shite spending on those two
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:37 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Topper wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Toss in letting Erhoff walk

Erhoff played the market and went for top dollar that was not affordable to Gillis.

.


Money is not an issue with Aquilini. That decision was Gillis. The team had no problem spending $9 million a year on Ballard and Booth combined. That's shite spending on those two



I agree with RD that it was a Gillis decision. The Ehrhoff camp gave the Canucks a chance to match the Buffalo offer, he declined. But for him it wasn't about the bottom dollar. It was about giving a contract like that to a player who he didn't see as a franchise player and throwing his whole compensation strategy out the window.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Topper » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:12 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Topper wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Toss in letting Erhoff walk

Erhoff played the market and went for top dollar that was not affordable to Gillis.

.


Money is not an issue with Aquilini. That decision was Gillis. The team had no problem spending $9 million a year on Ballard and Booth combined. That's shite spending on those two

Are you sure money is no issue? Salary structure definitely is.

You do realize Erhoff received $31 million in the first two years of his deal. Eighteen million in salary and thirteen million in signing bonus. Contrast that with Bieksa getting $19 million in the first two years of his deal ($11.5 million salary and $8 million bonus).
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:55 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I agree with RD that it was a Gillis decision. The Ehrhoff camp gave the Canucks a chance to match the Buffalo offer, he declined. But for him it wasn't about the bottom dollar. It was about giving a contract like that to a player who he didn't see as a franchise player and throwing his whole compensation strategy out the window.


Ya never know, with only $22,000,000 (and 7 years) left on his deal and his team being the worst in hockey, Ehrhoff could be available. ;)

He played his best hockey in Vancouver, and isn't worth the contract he got.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:03 pm

Ya I'm sure he is available but if we thought the Luongo contract was bad who would touch Ehrhoff? The cap recapture will be bad on his. Hey doesn't Buffalo have it's buy outs left? :mrgreen:
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