Canucks News and Notes

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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Vader » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:31 am

Hockey Widow wrote: I have seen him hustle and back check more in recent games but he is still a work in progress. I think giving him some shifts every game and a chance on the PP here and there will give good benefit for him.



This team is in a dog fight to make the playoffs. They just re-signed 33 year old Sedin;'s to 4 year deals, have a soon to be 35year old goalie under contract for 75 more years, and a number of other players on the wrong side of 30. This team is expected to win now. They are'nt built to coddle young players along, they're expected to make the playoffs. Kassian needs to earn his ice time - this isn't a developmental league
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Meds » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:26 am

Vader wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote: I have seen him hustle and back check more in recent games but he is still a work in progress. I think giving him some shifts every game and a chance on the PP here and there will give good benefit for him.



This team is in a dog fight to make the playoffs. They just re-signed 33 year old Sedin;'s to 4 year deals, have a soon to be 35year old goalie under contract for 75 more years, and a number of other players on the wrong side of 30. This team is expected to win now. They are'nt built to coddle young players along, they're expected to make the playoffs. Kassian needs to earn his ice time - this isn't a developmental league


The NUMBER ONE GOAL of every team is to win the Stanley Cup. To do that you need to make the playoffs. You do this by winning games. Then you have to win 16 more games. If putting Kassian with the Sedins makes him a better player, and makes the Canucks a better team on the scoreboard, then to hell with the old fart mentality of "he has to earn it", and "don't coddle the kids". There are some people who need a little bit of coddling in order to build up the confidence they need to truly spread their wings. But regardless, if putting Kassian with the Sedins results in him averaging a point per game while not hurting the team, then only a stubborn fool resists it for the sake of "tradition". Obviously this is an "IF" scenario.

Every time Kassian has had a taste of success in a Vancouver jersey he has subsequently been demoted for no good reason. The result is a disengaged kid who just floats. Now, I'm not saying that he hasn't been demoted for screw ups, he has had his fair share of those. All I'm saying is that the kid has been mishandled by his former coach, and right now the jury is out on how Torts is going to bring him along. However, since Torts benched him and then went on record and vaguely outlined his plan and approach with Kassian, Zack has responded with some better play and more hustle, and as Torts said a couple games back, "he hasn't hurt us".
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:06 am

Vader wrote:The comparison's to Bertuzzi / Lucic or whomever are unfair to Kassian. He simply doesn't have the hands of a Bertuzzi or the shot of Neely. A better comparison, IMHO, is a bigger version of Scott Mellanby or a little more skilled version of Darren McCarty or Brad May. He'll never become a Bertuzzi or a Neely - and he doesn't need to be to be a very valuable player to the team.


Yeah, I think those are good comparisons. I don't think Kassassian has the talent of Bert or Iggy. I always liked comparing him to Shane Doan. He probably won't ever have Doan's leadership or savyness, but similar type play I think. One reason I really wanted to see Doan here a couple years back, to mentor Kass. Let him learn under one of the best.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby CorranHorn » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:47 am

Meds wrote: However, since Torts benched him and then went on record and vaguely outlined his plan and approach with Kassian, Zack has responded with some better play and more hustle, and as Torts said a couple games back, "he hasn't hurt us".


He hasn't been vague at all.

Kassian is not going to get more playing time until he gets better defensively. But it doesn't end there. About two weeks ago, iirc, he said in a Post game interview, that Kassian has to look no further that on his team for a person to emulate. While Higgins isn't producing at an amazing rate, his work has been consistent throughout the yeat and that's what Torts is referring to.

He wants to make Zach a more complete player AWAY from the puck, in all three zones. Where do you start? The place he's least proficient in, his own end.

Trust me, if Torts does one thing right it's deal with da kids.

I hope... :hmmm:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby dbr » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:23 am

Bertuzzi is one thing, Lucic? I don't know.

I don't watch the B's much but the way fans complain about Looch sometimes you have to think Kassian has it in him to become a poor man's version - not quite the intimidating heavyweight, probably won't hit 30 goals or 60 points ever but the same general template.. bit of a loose cannon with offensive ability, invisible some nights and wreaking havoc others.. Kassian seems capable of that to me.

(I guess really it's the narrow margin between a dime a dozen 40 point guy and an "oh my god don't compare him to Milan Lucic you'll give him a complex" 60 point mark that makes it seem achievable. A guy with Kassian's skills could have 20 good games and 20 decent games and probably rack up 40 points there, if he scores like a 20 point guy over the other half of his games that's 50 right there. )

He's obviously a long way off from that right now.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby nuckster » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:18 am

[/quote]
MEDS WROTE: NUMBER ONE GOAL of every team is to win the Stanley Cup. To do that you need to make the playoffs. You do this by winning games. Then you have to win 16 more games. If putting Kassian with the Sedins makes him a better player, and makes the Canucks a better team on the scoreboard, then to hell with the old fart mentality of "he has to earn it", and "don't coddle the kids". There are some people who need a little bit of coddling in order to build up the confidence they need to truly spread their wings. But regardless, if putting Kassian with the Sedins results in him averaging a point per game while not hurting the team, then only a stubborn fool resists it for the sake of "tradition". Obviously this is an "IF" scenario.

Every time Kassian has had a taste of success in a Vancouver jersey he has subsequently been demoted for no good reason. The result is a disengaged kid who just floats. Now, I'm not saying that he hasn't been demoted for screw ups, he has had his fair share of those. All I'm saying is that the kid has been mishandled by his former coach, and right now the jury is out on how Torts is going to bring him along. However, since Torts benched him and then went on record and vaguely outlined his plan and approach with Kassian, Zack has responded with some better play and more hustle, and as Torts said a couple games back, "he hasn't hurt us".[/quote][/quote]


I totally agree with your view here. So why not set Kass up for success? Putting him with the Sedins will only rub off on him as time goes by. I get so frustrated seeing Torts putting Hansen with them... gawd! Hansen is a great 3rd line player - he is not, nor never will be a first line finisher. So for shit sakes, quit wasting valuable time going up a dead end road already. Jeeesus.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby SKYO » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:59 am

Kassian should be firmly placed on the 3rd line, with sporadic powerplay time so he can plant his ass in front of the net, till he earns his way to the top stealing Burrows throne on the mighty twins line.

Currently however with Burrows out all the hoopla resides in Kassian getting that spot, with the media now jumping on that story.

Here is where the Canadian market goes hard on a individual player, rightfully so but that's the unfortunate nature of the beast, where either a player gets ice in his veins or gets self defeated, good thing ZK strikes me as a guy who doesn't give a shit and will play on and develop as best he can.

Gotta feel for Kassian though with all the pressure to be a top performer when he's not mentally experienced enough to be that monster of a player yet.

Realistically 2015/16 or maybe even 2014/15 at best should be the breakout party for ZK.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Tiger » Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:44 pm

Not sure if putting Kassian on Sedin line will help or hinder his development .
Over the years there must of been 30 or more players "tried out " with the Sedins and only 2 have been a perfect fit..
( honorable mention to Trent Klatt ).. Right now the "job" is to fill in while Burrows is injured. Hansen is a decent 2 way player and has defensive smarts . Unfortunately not great hands. It takes a special skill set to fit in with the Sedins and many good plyers did not work out that well.. Maybe Kassian isn't a good fit? But that does not mean he wont develop into a valuable player for the team..
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:06 pm

dbr wrote:Bertuzzi is one thing, Lucic? I don't know.

I don't watch the B's much but the way fans complain about Looch sometimes you have to think Kassian has it in him to become a poor man's version - not quite the intimidating heavyweight, probably won't hit 30 goals or 60 points ever but the same general template.. bit of a loose cannon with offensive ability, invisible some nights and wreaking havoc others.. Kassian seems capable of that to me.


Yeah, Lucic might be a good comparison too, Kass is definitely not as tuff and intimidating though. As far as putting Kass with the Sedins, I don't mind it. It's not like we have that many options to put there anyways. Burr is injured and can't buy a goal. I like Kes on a different line more to spread out the scoring. Booth and Hansen? Meh, I think they more 2nd-3rd liners, although Hansen has been pretty good there at times. I think putting Kass with the Sedins maybe benefical for all members on that line (ie - Sedins have a guy who can help them in the physical dept & Kass can maybe finish some Sedin garbage). It also allows some of our good checkers (Burr/Hansen) to play on diff't lines, so it gives our roster a diff't look and strengthens our lineup in some ways.

Has any other guy earned a chance on the 1st line? Nah, not really. Has Kass earned a chance on the 1st line? Nah, not really defensively wise, but he did score like 5 goals in 27GP. Not bad numbers for a guy who has only played on the 3rd and 4th lines. With Kass, he'll probably never be a top defensive player, what he brings to the table is a physical presence and some potential scoring threat. I don't think rewarding him on the 1st line will spoil him too much, maybe if he was a 1st year player right out of juniors. We have had Kass for a couple years now, I think it's time to give him more responsibility to see what he can do. Also with Kass, he's still maturing as a player and person. I'm sure with proper coaching and with the encouragment of our veterans, he will become a better play in all aspects of his game. It's just a matter of time. I wouldn't make Kass a staple on the 1st line with the Sedins, but I think he deserves a few games there to see what he can do. Torts should just do his thing, if Kass is playing well, give him some time there. If Kass is playing like a dog, stick him back on the 3rd-4th line again or bench him. :D
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Strangelove » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:09 pm

If Kassian was still in Buffalo he'd definitely be receiving top 6 icetime right now. :wink:

I agree with the majority: He needs to earn top-6 icetime here, and he hasn't done that yet.

I would like to see him audition on the 2nd PP unit for a dozen games or so

(what have we got to lose at this point amirite?).

Not sure if the majority agrees with me on that one or not....

I see Kassian progressing ever so slooowly, but moving in the right direction.

We were all hoping he'd step up this season.

That hasn't happened yet.

Oh well.

Patience. :mex:
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Strangelove » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:15 pm

dbr wrote:(I guess really it's the narrow margin between a dime a dozen 40 point guy and an "oh my god don't compare him to Milan Lucic you'll give him a complex" 60 point mark that makes it seem achievable. A guy with Kassian's skills could have 20 good games and 20 decent games and probably rack up 40 points there, if he scores like a 20 point guy over the other half of his games that's 50 right there. )


I believe we have a 12-words-in-brackets-maximum rule here Dave.

(after that point gobbledygook tends to ensue).

Your cooperation in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby dangler » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:28 pm

Sportsnet did a little piece on Kassian last night. Torts main issue with him on the top line was that he would be facing the oppositions top players and that increased the chances of his defensive lapses resulting in a goal against.
Kassian himself also stated he'd prefer to work his way up to a full-time top 6 position rather than being given a game or 2 or a few shifts here and there. So it sounds like a more defensive player (like Hansen) might be the safest bet til Burrows returns.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:11 pm

The main thing it seems is that the coach and player are on the same page. As long as that is the case the right thing is being done. Zack wants to earn his ice and that is a good thing. No sulking prima Donna calling daddy.
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby dbr » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:52 pm

Strangelove wrote:
dbr wrote:(I guess really it's the narrow margin between a dime a dozen 40 point guy and an "oh my god don't compare him to Milan Lucic you'll give him a complex" 60 point mark that makes it seem achievable. A guy with Kassian's skills could have 20 good games and 20 decent games and probably rack up 40 points there, if he scores like a 20 point guy over the other half of his games that's 50 right there. )


I believe we have a 12-words-in-brackets-maximum rule here Dave.

(after that point gobbledygook tends to ensue).

Your cooperation in this matter would be greatly appreciated.


Technically everything I post is inside a set of parentheses I opened in 2003 on the old sportsnet message boards.

(I am also a fan of parentheses within parentheses (which can be tough to navigate but when used effectively neatly compartmentalize tangents which can be otherwise distracting) ten eleven twelve thirteen.)
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Re: Canucks News and Notes

Postby SKYO » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:34 pm

Another stepping stone for Kassian tonight, when he gets involved he's a monster of a player, I think he'll be an even more of a killer :twisted: than he is now in a coupla years. :o
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