Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby mathonwy » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:37 pm

Brutal...

Assuming the pictures you've posted haven't been doctored, the Laughs should not count on Kessel doing anything useful March onwards.

Thanks Burkie!
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby ClamRussel » Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:12 pm

Just a pure talent, it's probably come so natural to him he never had to work for it. Imagine how good he *could* be! Krutov pt. deux?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Tiger » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:53 am

Hockey Widow wrote:
BigTuna wrote:Good move by Montreal. Puzzling they did not do this sooner. PK is a franchise D-man you build your team around. worth every penny.


I agree a good move. No sense going through this next year where PK has even more leverage, ie plays out the year and walks. 9 seems a tad high, certainly no home team discount, but not so high that it is a bad contract, it is a decent contract. 8.5 would have been a better number but 9 is still in the right range for PK. He is worth it.

Makes you realize, again, that MG did a good job in locking players up for reasonable cap hits that often had some home team discount in them. Sure they had NTC but as we have seen these are moveable, the return can be questionable but nonetheless they can be moved. Instead of fewer NTC in the future I think we see more, more modified, more NMC, more full NTC.


? 1) depends on which version of PK Montreal gets.. the one we saw in the playoffs is a true franchise player.. but the one on the Olympic team didn't impress Stevie Y or Babcock .. Hamhuis replaced him after game 1 ..
2) MG and NTC long term contracts have killed the Canucks.. Luongo deal.. kesler .. and 3 overpaid under performing swedes .. Having to trade off Garrison instead of Edler..
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:34 pm

Tiger wrote:? 1) depends on which version of PK Montreal gets.. the one we saw in the playoffs is a true franchise player.. but the one on the Olympic team didn't impress Stevie Y or Babcock .. Hamhuis replaced him after game 1 ..
2) MG and NTC long term contracts have killed the Canucks.. Luongo deal.. kesler .. and 3 overpaid under performing swedes .. Having to trade off Garrison instead of Edler..


Actually, he's been a franchise D-man the past two SEASONS. The Olympics are a whole different ball-game, TC didn't require a d-man to create offense, they already had a bunch of more capable two-way guys (Weber, Doughty) and had offensive firepower to spare up front... they didn't need the risk-reward from the back end.

Subban doesn't have an NTC for the first two years. The Habs can trade him to whoever they want between now and July 1st 2016 (his RFA years). What do you think the market is for a Norris-winning 25 year old d-man signed for 8 years? Furthermore, Subban will be 33 when the deal ends. He's not exactly signed til retirement. Your MG comparison is trash. Would you not take Crosby because of his deal?

He's easily one of the most dynamic PLAYERS in the game, regardless of position. All he needs to do is keep doing what he's been doing. Montreal had no choice but to give him what he wanted. They're big mistake was playing hardball with him last time.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Betamax » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:42 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:I still take all of my listed d-men in a winner takes all game today ahead of PK.

Never mind all the bullshit....


Well, there really isn't a clear best d-man in hockey, like the time where you can say Orr, Gretzky or Lemieux dominated their era. At any given time any of the big 5 or 6 or so dmen or so can play at a level that one can make a legitimate argument that they are playing like the best in the world. So the other factors, I've listed come into play.

It's still a toss up between DD and PKS if I could add one dman to say the Canucks and determine which player would have more impact over their course of their career. Image
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Strangelove » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:18 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:I still take all of my listed d-men in a winner takes all game today ahead of PK.

Never mind all the bullshit....


No need to explain Dan, we'll just chalk it up as some kind of... Lethbridge... thing. :wink:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:19 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I still take all of my listed d-men in a winner takes all game today ahead of PK.

Never mind all the bullshit....


No need to explain Dan, we'll just chalk it up as some kind of... Lethbridge... thing. :wink:

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:22 pm

Betamax wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I still take all of my listed d-men in a winner takes all game today ahead of PK.

Never mind all the bullshit....


Well, there really isn't a clear best d-man in hockey, like the time where you can say Orr, Gretzky or Lemieux dominated their era. At any given time any of the big 5 or 6 or so dmen or so can play at a level that one can make a legitimate argument that they are playing like the best in the world. So the other factors, I've listed come into play.

It's still a toss up between DD and PKS if I could add one dman to say the Canucks and determine which player would have more impact over their course of their career. Image

I can respect this...
See much better than getting all fired up about it!

I would have to say Chara has been damn good and if he's starting to finally taper off it hasn't been until this past season.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby ESQ » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:00 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:They're big mistake was playing hardball with him last time.

Yeah, though its not a huge mistake as I think you're agreeing that its a decent contract.

Plus, who knows how PK would have turned out if he'd already earned his big(ish) contract 2 years ago, I'm a big believer in the post-contract slump with virtually every player.

No doubt he's played like a man possessed (sorry, Wellwood) for the past 2 seasons, I hope for Montreal's sake he keeps flooring it.

Montreal has been a Jekyll-and-Hyde team for almost a decade now, alternating between deep playoff runs and missing the playoffs every few years. They need Subban, and hopefully his cap hit won't hamstring them in the many other improvements they need to make.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:04 pm

ESQ wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:They're big mistake was playing hardball with him last time.

Yeah, though its not a huge mistake as I think you're agreeing that its a decent contract.

Plus, who knows how PK would have turned out if he'd already earned his big(ish) contract 2 years ago, I'm a big believer in the post-contract slump with virtually every player.



Well it's certainly a contract Montreal had to make. No way around it, losing PK for nothing in two years wasn't an option. It's market value, IMO. He didn't give them any sort of hometown discount. I just think they said "show me and we'll pay you" and he said "fine, now fucking pay me". Most would say they were smart to go after the bridge deal, but they're probably wishing they had him at a 12-year, $70M ($5.8M per) pre-lockout deal at this point.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Groovypippin » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:13 pm

mathonwy wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I still take all of my listed d-men in a winner takes all game today ahead of PK.

Never mind all the bullshit....


Uncle dans leg wrote:He's not even the best defenseman bro...

I'd take Shea Weber, Doughty, Keith, Chara, Karlsson and probably Petrangelo over him.

He is in there with Letang though. Top 10 d-man but not in the league...no way


Based on Subban's amazing playoffs last year, I'd definitely put Subban in the top 5 of NHL defensemen.

Weber, Doughty, Keith, Subban, Karlsson.

Subban is miles better than Letang.


I'm sorry, but any list of "Best NHL d-men without Zdeno Chara on it is crap. D-men still play defense you know.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:55 pm

Groovypippin wrote:I'm sorry, but any list of "Best NHL d-men without Zdeno Chara on it is crap. D-men still play defense you know.


Does it really matter if he's top 5 or top 7? If one looks just at SALARIES, Subban is 11th next year.

It's really tough to compare cap-hits when you have the massive, life-time, back-diving deals playing alongside those that are limited to 7 or 8 years.

Weber makes $14M next year, Suter $11. The first 8 years of Weber's deal averages $11.5M per, Suters first 8 years is $10M per. If Chara was a 30 year old UFA I'd wager he'd get 11.5-12M per year from a dozen+ teams.

Simply put, Subban's salary and contract is probably right around where it should be. He's not the best d-man in hockey, but he's one of them, and now he's being paid as such.

For the record: I'd rank Weber, Doughty, Chara, Pietrangelo, Suter and maybe Karlsson ahead of him.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Mondi » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:13 pm

Keith is better in my opinion. Keith is underrated, if that is possible.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Island Nucklehead » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:10 pm

Mondi wrote:Keith is better in my opinion. Keith is underrated, if that is possible.


I did think about including him, but I think playing on that nearly-dynastic Blackhawks team helps him in a big way. I'm not sure he'd be held in such high regard if he played in Montreal or Nashville. He could be there, but I'd take Subban over him.

Plus, Keith is a massive douche and a dirty coward of a hockey player... -1,000,000 points.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:09 pm

Ekbald out with a concussion after getting rocked by a Czech player. Team Canada and the Florida Panthers have taken him off the roster for precautionary reasons. No word as to the extent but sounds like he should be ok for main camp.

http://www.tsn.ca/world_jrs/story/?id=458819


Tough for him. Florida should have traded the pick to us :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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