Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:38 am

Arachnid wrote:I dunno Doc, you're argument and evidence is pretty weak...while I agree the Princess is overvalued your point of reference is January 2012 (Or October, for that matter)...flash forward I don't think Ovi & him are playing as bad as they were back then...


Doc is too busy reading articles that are over 1 year old. He doesn't have a clue what's going on currently. :lol:


Strangelove wrote:
Meanwhile Mr Phaneuf was never considered to be an elite player.

For example, Mr Ovechkin is invited to participate in what will be his 3rd Winter Olympic Games next month.

How many Winter Olympic Games has your Mr Phaneuf been invited to... Todd?

Many NHLers considered Phaneuf overrated as an above-average NHL defenseman

... on APRIL 3, 2010, JANUARY 5 2012, and OCTOBER 3, 2013.



So players consider Phaneuf "overrated" in the past 3 years, so what? Sure, he's not an elite player like Weber/Chara, but he's still a top D-man in the league. He probably won't make the Canadian Olympic squad cuz we're generally pretty stacked with a lot of good players @ the D position. If Phaneuf was not a Canadian, he'd probably make any other country's olympic team. U turn around and ask any NHL player (any GM for that matter) if they would take Phaneuf on their team? I'm sure they take would him in a heartbeat.

Also, Phaneuf is a player built for the NHL, olympics not so much. He's proably not the best skater, which is not good on the olympic ice surface; however, his combination of size, skill, grit and leadership is exactly what u want for a team that wants to go deep into the NHL playoffs.


Blob Mckenzie wrote:^^^^Hamhuis is a far better player than Phaneuf^^^^ and lol at the other comparison between Edler and Phaneuf.


I luv Hammer, but I'd take Dion over Dan. They're both very good defensively, but will make some mistakes once and awhile. Hammer is more of the quiet type/lead by example, while Phaneuf is more vocal. They're both pretty close overall, but I give the edge to Dion cuz of his size. We all know what happened to Hammer when he tried to play physical vs a big strong guy Lucic; Dion on the other hand can handle the rough/physical stuff no probs. Phaneuf also has a cannon of a shot, while Hammer is more of a close range shooter.

edit: I'd like to add Dion was an offensive juggernaut when he first came into the league. He scored like 20G as a rookie blueliner and had like 60P in his 3rd year. He struggled for a bit in Calgary after and in TO they seem to use him more as a shut-down/big minutes guy as they have other guys who can play the PP. There was talk early on, who would u rather have as your franchise player? a top young scorer like Crosby or a stud D-man like Phaneuf. It was close @ one time. Phaneuf has skillz that are not fully utilized, just sayin.

Lastly, I won't mind seeing and hearing about Elisha out and about in town. <3 :oops:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Arachnid » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:36 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Arachnid wrote:I dunno Doc, you're argument and evidence is pretty weak...while I agree the Princess is overvalued your point of reference is January 2012 (Or October, for that matter)...flash forward I don't think Ovi & him are playing as bad as they were back then...


Doc is too busy reading articles that are over 1 year old. He doesn't have a clue what's going on currently. :lol:


Strangelove wrote:
Meanwhile Mr Phaneuf was never considered to be an elite player.

For example, Mr Ovechkin is invited to participate in what will be his 3rd Winter Olympic Games next month.

How many Winter Olympic Games has your Mr Phaneuf been invited to... Todd?

Many NHLers considered Phaneuf overrated as an above-average NHL defenseman

... on APRIL 3, 2010, JANUARY 5 2012, and OCTOBER 3, 2013.



So players consider Phaneuf "overrated" in the past 3 years, so what? Sure, he's not an elite player like Weber/Chara, but he's still a top D-man in the league. He probably won't make the Canadian Olympic squad cuz we're generally pretty stacked with a lot of good players @ the D position. If Phaneuf was not a Canadian, he'd probably make any other country's olympic team. U turn around and ask any NHL player (any GM for that matter) if they would take Phaneuf on their team? I'm sure they take would him in a heartbeat.

Also, Phaneuf is a player built for the NHL, olympics not so much. He's proably not the best skater, which is not good on the olympic ice surface; however, his combination of size, skill, grit and leadership is exactly what u want for a team that wants to go deep into the NHL playoffs.


Blob Mckenzie wrote:^^^^Hamhuis is a far better player than Phaneuf^^^^ and lol at the other comparison between Edler and Phaneuf.


I luv Hammer, but I'd take Dion over Dan. They're both very good defensively, but will make some mistakes once and awhile. Hammer is more of the quiet type/lead by example, while Phaneuf is more vocal. They're both pretty close overall, but I give the edge to Dion cuz of his size. We all know what happened to Hammer when he tried to play physical vs a big strong guy Lucic; Dion on the other hand can handle the rough/physical stuff no probs. Phaneuf also has a cannon of a shot, while Hammer is more of a close range shooter.

edit: I'd like to add Dion was an offensive juggernaut when he first came into the league. He scored like 20G as a rookie blueliner and had like 60P in his 3rd year. He struggled for a bit in Calgary after and in TO they seem to use him more as a shut-down/big minutes guy as they have other guys who can play the PP. There was talk early on, who would u rather have as your franchise player? a top young scorer like Crosby or a stud D-man like Phaneuf. It was close @ one time. Phaneuf has skillz that are not fully utilized, just sayin.

Lastly, I won't mind seeing and hearing about Elisha out and about in town. <3 :oops:


Phangoof is most definitely overrated...being in the media whore centre of the unknown universe....Doctor Doofus's mistake was to use Sergay in his sampling

Maybe you and the Ultimate puck bunny could have a three way with Dijon

:mex:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby dbr » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:48 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Dion @ $7M > Edler @ $5M


I don't think so.

I think Phaneuf could have got $8m+ in unrestricted free agency, I think (like Island Nucklehead said) the Leafs don't really have much choice but to lock him up, but I think $7m is closer to UFA money than it is to hometown discount (ie. Edler) money.

The reality of the NHL is that if you can add a player of the Suter, Campbell, Phaneuf ilk and if it addresses a need you pony up and do it to make a huge improvement to your on ice product.

That said, teams that pay those prices to retain the guys they've got, or to stay afloat as a mediocre club, are never going to be in a position to actually go out and acquire one of those guys in order to take the next step.

Also Phaneuf has essentially taken a pay cut in terms of adjusted cap dollars. The first year of his last contract was 11.4% of the cap ceiling and next year his $7m will be 9.8% of the cap ceiling. Obviously 22-28 is a better time to buy on a player than 28-35, but I don't think there is huge risk in Dion's term (aside from the usual injury stuff).
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Topper » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:01 am

In the Vancouver lineup comparables.

He is more physical than any Vancouver defender, but much of it in the old Matt Cooke just a bit too late board rattling way.

He has the shot and accuracy of Jason Garrison.

He is as defensively responsible as Andrew Alberts.

He is as smart as Andrew Alberts 1 second after the McGratton hit.

He should be a prototypical stay at home crease clearing defender. He has the size and limited skating for the role. He also has the booming shot that ends up head high in the corner. He does not have the smarts, skating ability, first pass of a #1 guy.

The problem for Toronto is they made him their guy. Hyped the hell out of him, made him captain and are building their defence around him. Nonis and co bent themselves over the bike on this one and Dion happily treated them like a Hollywood b movie starlet.

Burke rolled the dice on Komisarek, when that didn't work, he went after Dion and forced a square peg in a round hole. The Leaf faithful swallowed.

Is there another defender in the league that the Sedin twins have consistently made look foolish?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Reefer2 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:07 am

I think Edler is better than Diane based upon stats/$$$ and role but again with the bloody cap going up $6 - $7M next season and people are projecting the same again for the season after you will see more of these deals.

The problem will once again be the 6th and 7th year of the contract he wont be worth that amount regardless of what the cap is.

So can someone tell me why again the league had to have a strike last season? going back to what the cap was last year 1 year after the strike and then expect to go up again after next season? Makes me hate Boston even more.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Boston Canucker » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:20 am

A couple of interesting notes out of Minnesota.

Ballard a healthy scratch for tonight...well, I guess he's used to that.

And Konopka on waivers. I used to see ZK as a possible 4th line idea for the Canucks, as much because he's a good faceoff man as he is tough. But he's too slow for Torts I bet, and of late our 4th line seems to be coming around.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Meds » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:01 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:So players consider Phaneuf "overrated" in the past 3 years, so what? Sure, he's not an elite player like Weber/Chara, but he's still a top D-man in the league. He probably won't make the Canadian Olympic squad cuz we're generally pretty stacked with a lot of good players @ the D position. If Phaneuf was not a Canadian, he'd probably make any other country's olympic team. U turn around and ask any NHL player (any GM for that matter) if they would take Phaneuf on their team? I'm sure they take would him in a heartbeat.

Also, Phaneuf is a player built for the NHL, olympics not so much. He's proably not the best skater, which is not good on the olympic ice surface; however, his combination of size, skill, grit and leadership is exactly what u want for a team that wants to go deep into the NHL playoffs.


Seriously? What do you do first thing in the morning anyhow Bersnoozi? Roll over and smoke a bowl?

Phaneuf is probably not the best skater? He's a better skater than Weber and Chara, and probably a couple of other Olympic locks and hopefuls. One of his strength's is how good he is on his feet. If not for his skating ability he'd probably be a third pairing guy because he would never be able to recover from the boneheaded mistakes he made all the time in his first few seasons. Phaneuf's problem has been that he's irresponsible. He's reigned it in somewhat over the last couple of seasons, but he still pinches at bad times, and still takes himself out of position to go for the big hit.

Bersnoozi wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:^^^^Hamhuis is a far better player than Phaneuf^^^^ and lol at the other comparison between Edler and Phaneuf.


I luv Hammer, but I'd take Dion over Dan. They're both very good defensively, but will make some mistakes once and awhile. Hammer is more of the quiet type/lead by example, while Phaneuf is more vocal. They're both pretty close overall, but I give the edge to Dion cuz of his size. We all know what happened to Hammer when he tried to play physical vs a big strong guy Lucic; Dion on the other hand can handle the rough/physical stuff no probs. Phaneuf also has a cannon of a shot, while Hammer is more of a close range shooter.


They are different players, and it depends on what you need. Hamhuis is more responsible defensively, he doesn't pinch at bad times, his hits last night are case in point, some big hip checks, one that resulted in a goal for the Canucks on the turnover at center ice. But Hamhuis isn't as strong as Phaneuf, he's not as fast, and he doesn't have near the same shot or puck carrying ability. Hamhuis is a steady and reliable player who won't often get burned, but he won't often burn a guy either, his offensive contributions are usually from second assists or when he puts a shot in for a tip or rebound. Honestly, if they weren't both left-handed shots, Phaneuf and Hamhuis would be an ideal top pairing. Most guys who try to stand-up Lucic or Chara are gonna get hurt. Especially late in the playoffs when you already have a lot of wear and tear going on.

Bersnoozi wrote:edit: I'd like to add Dion was an offensive juggernaut when he first came into the league. He scored like 20G as a rookie blueliner and had like 60P in his 3rd year. He struggled for a bit in Calgary after and in TO they seem to use him more as a shut-down/big minutes guy as they have other guys who can play the PP. There was talk early on, who would u rather have as your franchise player? a top young scorer like Crosby or a stud D-man like Phaneuf. It was close @ one time. Phaneuf has skillz that are not fully utilized, just sayin.


I hope you're saying that Phanuef's skills are not fully utilized because he doesn't have the brain to utilize them. With him it is NOT coaching, it's all upstairs. The guy is probably one of the most athletically gifted guys in the league.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby BladesofSteel » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:28 am

Taylor Pyatt was picked up on waivers today by Pit.

Good luck Taylor!
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Lancer » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:25 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Not a bad signing me thinks. I thot he'd get $5.5-$6M, some ppl thot he'd getz $8M+ in the openz marketz. He signz right in middle @ $7M, bit of a hometown discount I guess. :lol:


Phaneuf had all the leverage here and the contract bears it out. Nonis, Phaneuf and his agent all knew that this summer was going to be a seller's market and he would have gone for even or better dollars somewhere else because of the scarcity of supply; and with whom could they replace him if he left?

Is he worth the money? Hells no.

Could the Leafs afford his salary? Yup.

Could they afford to let him go with no compensation? Nope.

Could they have traded him before this summer? Yup, but don't know what they would have gotten in return and it would have been hard to trade his contract given the cap situation of many teams.

I'm just happy that the Leafs are stuck with their own "Luongo-esque" untradeable contract. Happy that they chose to devote so much cap space (even if it is going up) to a has-been who will only get more marginal in what he provides to the team. To Hairy Tuna-head, have fun with Phagoof and watching what $7 million gets you in Toronto. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Lancer » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:28 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Maple Leafs acquire Tim Gleason from Carolina for JM Liles and former 6th round pick Dennis Robertson.


Gotta say, this could be a good move for the Hogtown retards. Liles wasn't doing anything for them anyway, and Gleason couldn't possibly be worse than Komisarek when he was in Hogtown, no?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby herb » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:35 pm

Lancer wrote:the Hogtown retards


LOL

The Leafs had to re-sign Phaneuf. NHL teams try like hell to hold onto their best players, and the Leafs had no way of replacing Phaneuf in the short term. They hitched their wagon to his star years ago and would be loathe to lose him now. He’s their captain and face of the franchise. Losing him would have been a step in the wrong direction.

Now, that doesn’t mean Phaneuf isn’t seriously overrated (he is) and that $7M over 7 years for a soon to be 29 year old isn’t too much money over too long of a term (it is), but retaining Phaneuf was the best option out of a bunch of not fantastic options.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:53 pm

Meds wrote:Phaneuf is probably not the best skater? He's a better skater than Weber and Chara, and probably a couple of other Olympic locks and hopefuls. One of his strength's is how good he is on his feet. If not for his skating ability he'd probably be a third pairing guy because he would never be able to recover from the boneheaded mistakes he made all the time in his first few seasons.


Topper wrote:He should be a prototypical stay at home crease clearing defender. He has the size and limited skating for the role. He also has the booming shot that ends up head high in the corner. He does not have the smarts, skating ability, first pass of a #1 guy.


???? OK, so he moves well for a big man, but he's no Paul Coffey/Scott Niedermayer.


Topper wrote:In the Vancouver lineup comparables.

He is more physical than any Vancouver defender, but much of it in the old Matt Cooke just a bit too late board rattling way.

He has the shot and accuracy of Jason Garrison.

He is as defensively responsible as Andrew Alberts.

He is as smart as Andrew Alberts 1 second after the McGratton hit.


Agreed on the Garrison type shot. Yes, his timing on hits are bad at times, but he much better defensively than Alberts. No way he plays those types of minutes if he's like Alberts on the defensive side, not under Coach Wilson and Carlye. Not a slight on Fat Alberts, as I do like the big fella for a bottom pairing role.


Boston Canucker wrote:Ballard a healthy scratch for tonight...well, I guess he's used to that.


*Haha* Baltard. It's the coaching right? The Coach in Minny is messing with Baltard's confidence. :lol:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby dbr » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:06 pm

Reefer2 wrote:So can someone tell me why again the league had to have a strike last season? going back to what the cap was last year 1 year after the strike and then expect to go up again after next season? Makes me hate Boston even more.


So Dion couldn't get $10m/per over the first seven, plus $2m per over the next seven.

Oh and so the league could take an extra 14% of the HRR pie, to which the numbers on this (and any other) contract have no direct relation.
Last edited by dbr on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:18 pm

Meds wrote:I hope you're saying that Phanuef's skills are not fully utilized because he doesn't have the brain to utilize them. With him it is NOT coaching, it's all upstairs. The guy is probably one of the most athletically gifted guys in the league.


Maybe, IT IS the coaching. It just depends what u have on your lineup and utilizing the strengths of the personel on your team. Coach Caryle has other guys who can play an offensive PP role, so he doesn't fully utilize Phaneuf's offensive abilities. He has a horse in Phaneuf who can play big and tuff minutes, so Dion does the job that none of his other guys can handle. It's very much the same thing when we had Jovo and Ohlund. Ohlund had the talent to put up bigger numbers over his career here, but Ohlund was also a good player to use on tuff matchups, while Jovo was better offensively. Thus, Ohlund became more of the shutdown guy and Jovo was more of the PP guy.


Arachnid wrote:Maybe you and the Ultimate puck bunny could have a three way with Dijon

:mex:


A 3 way? *rawr* :lol: I have a weakness for blondes and I'm an ass man, nothing like a heart shaped butt. :D I'll do her doggie and Dion can take the front. :mrgreen:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:28 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Doc is too busy reading articles that are over 1 year old. He doesn't have a clue what's going on currently. :lol:


I used our friend Google to prove that for years NHLers have, consistently labled Phaneuf "overrated".

Oh and you consider OCTOBER 3, 2013 to be "over 1 year old" do you.... Todd? :thumbs:

One of us "doesn't have a clue what's going on currently".

Can you guess who that is.... Todd?

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:So players consider Phaneuf "overrated" in the past 3 years, so what?


You're right.... Todd.

I mean, what the hell does it matter what the players who actually play against Phag think, right? :wink:

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:U turn around and ask any NHL player (any GM for that matter) if they would take Phaneuf on their team? I'm sure they take would him in a heartbeat.


A lot of players wouldn't want a full-of-himself mistake-prone overrated-to-the-tune-of-$7m on their team

... Todd.

A lot of players realize bang-for-your-buck kinda players are beneficial.

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:... his combination of size, skill, grit and leadership is exactly what u want for a team that wants to go deep into the NHL playoffs.


Phaneuf is stupid.

Speaking of stupid, how "deep into the NHL playoffs" has Captain Diane ever taken an NHL team? :stupid:

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I luv Hammer, but I'd take Dion over Dan. They're both very good defensively, but will make some mistakes once and awhile. Hammer is more of the quiet type/lead by example, while Phaneuf is more vocal. They're both pretty close overall, but I give the edge to Dion cuz of his size.


So you consider them "pretty close overall" but you "give the edge to Dion". :roll:

Did you lose track of the fact that we were discussing Dion's new contract?

Do you realize Hamhuis' cap-hit is $4.5m and Dion's will be $7m?

Do you consider Hamhuis vastly underpaid or Dion vastly overpaid?

Afterall, you DID say "pretty close overall" amirite.... Todd. :mex:

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:There was talk early on, who would u rather have as your franchise player? a top young scorer like Crosby or a stud D-man like Phaneuf. It was close @ one time. Phaneuf has skillz that are not fully utilized, just sayin.


"He doesn't have a clue what's going on currently." :drink:
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