Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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BurningBeard
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by BurningBeard »

RoyalDude wrote:I still say it's too dangerous to trade Lack banking on Markstrom playing well in the NHL and old man Miller staying healthy and good
Unless the offer knocks Benning's socks off, I see no reason why they'd trade Lack. The market isn't good enough to produce worthwhile offers, IMO. When Miller is obviously a stop gap solution, they need to treat him like one.
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herb
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by herb »

At this point, Markstrom isn't really a prospect. Either he makes it in the NHL next year, or he's a career minor leaguer.

Miller was supposed to be the interim guy for a year or two. Given where the Canucks are as an organization, Lack's performance these past two seasons and our cap situation, I am leaning towards thinking Miller is the guy who has to go.

None of the three goalies are going to fetch us a great return - Lack or Miller might fetch us a 2nd rounder or a B level prospect. Markstrom might be worth a 3rd or 4th rounder.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by SKYO »

RoyalDude wrote:
Problem being there are a lot of quality goalies out there that will be on the market. A bit of a goalie glut right now with some very good back ups around the league ready to step into no. 1.

I still say it's too dangerous to trade Lack banking on Markstrom playing well in the NHL and old man Miller staying healthy and good
Boston Bruins backup goaltender Niklas Svedberg is heading to the KHL, and the market shrinkens. :D
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/bost ... aev-signs/

Just checking goalie status' quickly....

UFA's Ramo, Niemi, Andrew Hammond are gonna get paid handsomely.

Cam Ward could be had, but he's old and injured and overpaid.

Doubt Blackhawks want to give up Darling at this point, same with Wings in wanting to keep Mrazek, plus Kings with Jones.

Competition would be the sens/leaves/rangers.

As it'll be interesting to see what the Sens do with Anderson/Lehner/Hammond now that they got O'Connor.

leaves Bernier/Reimer one of em could be had.

Rangers Talbot.
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I guess it all depends, as others said, on what the offer(s) are for Lack if Benning decides to move him, knowing Lack has only one more season before UFA, confidence or lack thereof of Markstrom, Eriksson is the wildcard, Demko is a couple years away.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow »

Buffalo jumps to the head of the Babcock sweeps. Babcock has a strong history with Murray and word is he prefers to stay on the East coast. SJS said to not be in the running. Toronto, Buffalo and the Flyers said to be front runners. But Babcock will want a major say in roster moves which I doubt Hextal will give him.

If he wants to stay in the East it begs the question as to why he doesn't stay in Detroit. Perhaps 10 years is enough or perhaps it's enough of the city itself for the Mrs. But Buffalo?

Vegas odds are he will pick Toronto, Buffalo or stay in Detroit. If it is having a major say in roster decisions I think Buffalo will be his best choice. He will get his pay day and his relationship with Murray will all but guarantee he has a big say it what goes on there.

If he wants centre of the universe pressure it will be Toronto. I wonder what the Mrs really wants?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper »

The young talent and plethora of high draft picks in Buffalo has to appeal to him. The downsides of Detroit are the maturing team and Detroit. I'm sure he can find a nice neighbourhood in Buffalo.

TO will be a gong show and media circus. Even though Shanny is a media whore the press will be win now vultures second guessing every move made. Sure the stated purpose in TO is rebuild, the pieces for that rebuild are not in place, disgruntled lackadaisical vets permeate the lineup and need to moved for pics and prospects but their reputations and salaries make them sacrificial pawns with limited return.

Does Babcock like the advanced stat or bust gurus Shanny has entrusted? Who will be the GM and how will power be shared with the coach? Who is Bell/Rogers hiring to oversee Shanny and the rest of the MLSE empire? Will there be too many chiefs and not enough Skyos?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by herb »

Buffalo is an intriguing location.

The weather is about as crappy as Detroit. You gotta think Babcock will have a lot of say in how the team is built. The Sabres are being completely overhauled, so you know Babcock will have a chance to put his stamp on the team. Eichel and Reinhart will be enticing.

Pegula is super loaded and you know money is not going to be a problem. I don't think Pegula will be outbid. Buffalo wouldn't be a media circus. Babcock would be given a chance to build his team and run with it for years and not have to worry about being run out of town after one disappointing season.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Jovocop »

herb wrote:would be given a chance to build his team and run with it for years and not have to worry about being run out of town after one disappointing season.
Wouldn't that be nice if Linden and Benning can do the same?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by herb »

IMO Linden and Benning were afforded the greatest opportunity in recent Canucks' history to take their time and build properly. From fans, at least. Who knows what the pressures are from ownership, but it seems like ownership wants sell outs and home playoff dates above all else.

I think a lot of fans were ready to go through growing pains after the end of the 2013 season. In the past two seasons, we should have seen more young players on the team.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Zedlee »

herb wrote:IMO Linden and Benning were afforded the greatest opportunity in recent Canucks' history to take their time and build properly. From fans, at least. Who knows what the pressures are from ownership, but it seems like ownership wants sell outs and home playoff dates above all else.

I think a lot of fans were ready to go through growing pains after the end of the 2013 season. In the past two seasons, we should have seen more young players on the team.
Unfortunately, Benning inherited some big contracts (Sedin's) which pretty much excludes doing a total rebuild. It will take time to re tool this line up.
As far as "kids' are concerned....except for Horvat, who would you have put in the line up this year? You need good young players and we don't have them...yet. Over the next couple of years though, we have some kids coming.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper »

herb wrote:IMO Linden and Benning were afforded the greatest opportunity in recent Canucks' history to take their time and build properly. From fans, at least. Who knows what the pressures are from ownership, but it seems like ownership wants sell outs and home playoff dates above all else.

I think a lot of fans were ready to go through growing pains after the end of the 2013 season. In the past two seasons, we should have seen more young players on the team.
I was ready after the new CBA terms became a reality, not sure why few others saw the writing on the wall then.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by herb »

Zedlee wrote:Unfortunately, Benning inherited some big contracts (Sedin's) which pretty much excludes doing a total rebuild. It will take time to re tool this line up.
As far as "kids' are concerned....except for Horvat, who would you have put in the line up this year? You need good young players and we don't have them...yet. Over the next couple of years though, we have some kids coming.
Having the Sedins on your roster did not mean Benning had to make the brilliant Luca Sbisa, Linden Vey and Brandon McMillan acquisitions.

This year I would have given our AHL prospects more than a cup of coffee (at best) with the big club. Corrado and Clendening come to mind, but the bottom of our defensive depth chart was clogged up. If it wasn't for injuries, these guys wouldn't have seen any playing time. Shink and Gaunce could have benefited from a call-up, and later on in the season Baertschi could have as well.

Kassian should never have been a healthy scratch as much as he was.

The McMillan pick-up took playing time away from young players. WD was downright hesitant to play Horvat, Kenins and Kassian this season.

Benning has traded a significant number of draft picks away in his short tenure, which is an odd strategy for a rebuilding team. We'll see if he can recoup any of those picks.

Benning was oddly quiet at the trade deadline given it looks like he intends to let Matthias and Richardson walk (albeit, Richardson was injured).

The biggest missed opportunity was not trading for more youth in the Kesler trade. McCann looks like a good pick, but veterans Sbisa and Bonino have a lot of question marks. The Canucks giving up a 2015 3rd in that trade doesn't look so good right now.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow »

Herb, so much is wrong it what you wrote.

First, he gave Horvat tons of ice, more as the season went on. He also made Kenins a regular 4th liner once he got to Vancouver, with a couple of healthy scratches along the way to keep him focused.

As for defence, well Clendennng was a late acquisition but he did get a little time.

Gaunce wasn't ready, he was learning how to play wing.

Shinkaruk too struggled earlier this year.

Kassian is a bit of a mystery but prior to his back going workers he seemed to turn it around and was a regular again.

The Kesler trade. How many times do we have to rehash that one. There was one dance partner, one. Benning had few options. And as for the third, ya we gave up this year's but let's not forget we got a extra one last year that we turned into Dorsett.

While I do, overall, agree that the trend early has been to give up too many picks I get why. We traded picks and unseasoned prospects into older, more NHL ready prospects. Why? Because our cupboard was bare of that 20-24 age group.

I am hoping the trend was a one season attempt to stock the cupboard.

I too agree he should have moved Matthias at the TDD. I don't know if he would have gotten much more than a third, maybe a second for a desperate team. But again when a team is in the playoff hunt it's not generally wise to be trading off vets at the TDD. Teams just don't do that. At least he didn't go trading for another team's Matthias like players. That's what we have historically done and Burke, Nonis and Gillis. That's what Calgary did for years. That's what Pittsburgh and Boston have done for years. It didn't work too well for us, got us to game seven but then we chased too many years after that. Both Boston and Pittsburgh won a cup but chased too long after that.

A key step in stopping the bleeding is to know when to chase and when to stop being a buyer at TDD. Benning didn't chase this year and that would have been a disaster.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper »

The Clendenning pick up look awfully salient when Bieksa, Edler, Hamuis and Tanev went down at the same time. It could be argued Corado had earned a spot before his injury and the logjam was created when everyone else got healthy.

Horvat earned himself a regular shift by mid November and was taking key draws then.

Have you forgotten Willie of 4 lines rolling?

Shrinkwrap wasn't playing at the start of the year, Gaunce couldn't earn a spot.

McMillan was a waiver pick up. The Beartiechi pick up puzzles but it strongly suggest that the Vey experiment failed and it was another roll of the dice with a strong bias from Green.

Kassian?, Really Herb, Kassian? Oh how you have changed your tune. LOL
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by bckev »

It is frustrating how short some peoples memories are on here. The lack of patience is difficult as well, understandable, but still difficult. I like what Benning is doing, and I trust is judgement about players a lot more than all of our amateur thoughts combined. I like that he is developing players rather than going with the swim or sink approach that a lot on here seem to advocate for. These kids are young and it is a big jump to the pro level. The physical skills combined with the mental toughness isn't common, so if you can help someone develop in those two areas you are much more likely to end up with a player that helps long term. It is very sexy to think about what is coming in the future but don't throw away the present by not appreciating what he get to enjoy already. We have been so spoiled by the Sedins I don't think they will get the full appreciation of what they have, can and will do playing for the canucks until they retire which is too bad. We have some promising prospects but it is easier to drop to suspect than it is to climb to actual everyday player. At the beginning of the year most on here didn't think we would make the playoffs, let alone be the 8th place team. It was a good year with a lot more highs than lows. I think it is going to be an interesting spring as Benning continues to build this team. Sorry for the rant.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Island Nucklehead »

bckev wrote:I like what Benning is doing, and I trust is judgement about players a lot more than all of our amateur thoughts combined. I like that he is developing players rather than going with the swim or sink approach that a lot on here seem to advocate for. These kids are young and it is a big jump to the pro level. The physical skills combined with the mental toughness isn't common, so if you can help someone develop in those two areas you are much more likely to end up with a player that helps long term.
Well I'm not sure this totally applies to Benning. By trading draft picks (ie younger prospects) for more "developed" prospects, he's still trying to short-cut a rebuild through the draft strategy. And he's doing it by picking up players that other teams don't feel fit into their future plans (Vey, Baertschi). The big risk, of course, is that they don't work out here, and we either lose them to waivers or they wind up helping out on the farm (and not the big club). The effect could be the same as a trade deadline rental, in that they don't help the big club over the long term. Again, no reason to suggest that any individual second rounder would do any better, but if you start making a trend of doing that you're getting far fewer chances for a home run.

As for the big jump to the pro level, if you look at players like Vey and Baertschi, they are certainly not new to professional hockey. This was Vey and Baertschi's 4th season as pro's. Vey will be 24 when next season starts, in my mind that doesn't put him in prospect territory any more. Pedan was a 3rd round pick in 2011, is there anything to suggest that he still holds that value today? He was playing in the ECHL this season.

And let's not pretend Benning has shown a shrewd eye for talent analysis at this stage. His free agent signings were good, but guys like Vey, Bonino, and certainly Sbisa did not come as advertised when he acquired them. I find his drafting much more promising than his professional scouting, and that's what makes his dealing of draft picks (regardless of the age of the returning player) all the more frustrating to me.
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