Some of this may sound argumentative, so let me begin by saying thank you, this is exactly the kind of information I was looking for, and appreciate your engaging me in this way.Hockey Widow wrote: Benning's model.
Well let's see. He has said that to win Championships you need:
It seems to me that what you have provided gives us two things to talk about: his model, and his execution of the model to date.
Model: This is a widely held position, and one for which there is some evidence.Hockey Widow wrote: A true number on D man. He is on record of trying somehow to get one in Vancouver and all things being equal he will draft a D man in the first round, but will always take the BPA. This is not an easy task to accomplish but he recognizes the need.
Execution: OK, let’s call this one “pending”. However, if he is going to acquire this player through the draft, and Canucks are going to win the Cup in 2018, whoever he drafts is going to have to develop very quickly.
Model: I think there have been a few championship teams that have had no better than competent goaltending, but I certainly agree that great goaltending is highly valuable, if you can get it.Hockey Widow wrote:He has said you need a true number one goaltender. He signed Miller. Rightly or wrongly, he wanted a proven number one.
Execution: Signed Miller, but more importantly – since no one is predicting the Canucks to win the Cup for the duration of Miller’s contract – drafted Demko. We can call this one “on target”.
Model: not a controversial positionHockey Widow wrote: He has said you need to be big, strong, tough down the middle. Still looking to get that in the line up. But he has Horvat going, he added Sutter and Granlund. Far from where we need to be in this regard but he's working on it.
Execution: He has also acquired Vey and McCann, who also do not fit this model. Really, neither do Granlund and Sutter (195 lbs. is not big by the standards of NHL centres). He is following a circuitous route, and these are assets to be flipped later ? Then why the NTC for Sutter ? Not only are the Canucks far from where Benning thinks they need to be, nothing he has done so far (that I know about) has moved them any closer.
There's not enough information content here to analyse. What is the “right combination” ?Hockey Widow wrote:He has said you need the right combination of youth, size, speed and veteran presence. For the most part he is drafting big dudes. But he has drafted a few smaller skilled type players.
This probably an example of where I need more knowledgeable fans to interpret the hockey euphemisms. Does this mean take more penalties ? Have more instigators ? More rats ? More enforcers ? Or is he just expressing a preference for body checks over stick checks, or maybe the need for a commitment to disciplined team defence ?Hockey Widow wrote:He has said he wants to be a tough hard team to play against.
More code. Does “character” mean no drug addicts ? No rats ? Players who play by “the code” ? No (deep breath, Doc) assholes ? Good in the community ?Hockey Widow wrote:Said he wants players that want to compete every night. Character players that play for each other.
Actually, as I said, this really has helped improve my understanding of (at the very least your interpretation of) Benning's model. Benning himself has denied any plans to follow the Boston model, but I can understand where a new GM coming to Vancouver might be reluctant to express a preference for the way things were done in Boston. But if reading between the lines shows you that’s what he really wants, I appreciate your sharing that.Hockey Widow wrote: Would it help if he said I want to follow the Boston model. Or I want to follow the LA model. Seems to me those are the closest comparables I can think of in terms of what type of team he wants to build.
A version of what you wrote that he might actually say (or his advocates might say on his behalf) might go:Hockey Widow wrote:I still really don't understand what it is you don't understand. Is he supposed to stand up and say:
I Jim Benning believe in the Boston or LA model. Therefore I will target players with the following attributes, that I believe are missing from the organization. [One helpful poster offered “Young fast, skilled…with a degree of toughness”. I found your descriptions of “a true number one Dman” and “big, strong, and tough” down the middle more helpful in their greater specificity, but which is truly Benning’s greater priority ? To try to be more fair to this point, he has specified players in their early 20s, and he has gone and acquired some.] We will get players of position Q with attributes W through the draft, and fill in players of type Z through free agency. [Press: “Do you mean a player like Lucic ?” Mr. Benning: “that is/is not an example of a kind of player I think Vancouver needs”.]
Hockey Widow wrote: There really isn't a magic formula. It's trying to develop depth and consistency. To win the cup a lot of things have to go right. Luck, injuries, other teams play…. Fact is he is no different from 29 other GMs. I think they all have a similar vision. Some are better at drafting. Some are better making trades. Some get incredibly lucky with draft position. Some organizations are better at developing.
Here we come to the crux of the matter. With time to reflect, I think the better way to express what I was trying to ask might have been: “Could the Benning apostles explain to me why the Canucks are going to win the Stanley Cup in 2018 (and/or 2019, 2020, etc.) while actively trying to avoid drafting in the top five in the mean time ? Specifically, what competitive advantage will they hold over their rivals, and how will they have achieved this ? In particular, what will Benning have done better than, or differently from, his competitors that will confer this advantage.bckev wrote:You need to be competitive to start.... Hockey is really about process and the play of the whole team. Once competitive then you can start trying to pick up the last piece or two that puts you over the top. But luck has a lot to do with it.
If I understand your answer correctly, you believe that there is no such advantage to be had, and the Canucks will have – at best – the same chance as anyone else. This kool-aid is not so sweet.