Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Tciso » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:48 am

RoyalDude wrote:No fan of the primadonna - Duchene, but as Doc says it's quantity over quality, similar to the failed - O'Reilly return. After the O'Reilly experience ya think Sakic would have learned from it and got more of a sure thing in return. It's a gamble in the asset mgmt department, he better hope at least one of those picks and prospects turn out.

Is that so called "generational" player - McKinnon next to go for quantity?
Hard to call 3 good draft picks "Quantity" A 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd are definitely quality picks. Sakic managed to grab both quality and quantity.

Seems to me that Turris , Bowers and a 2nd would have been fair for Duchene. The other picks and players are pure gravy, and will likely hurt Ottawa in 3-5 years.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by RoyalDude » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:04 am

Tciso wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:No fan of the primadonna - Duchene, but as Doc says it's quantity over quality, similar to the failed - O'Reilly return. After the O'Reilly experience ya think Sakic would have learned from it and got more of a sure thing in return. It's a gamble in the asset mgmt department, he better hope at least one of those picks and prospects turn out.

Is that so called "generational" player - McKinnon next to go for quantity?
Hard to call 3 good draft picks "Quantity" A 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd are definitely quality picks. Sakic managed to grab both quality and quantity.

Seems to me that Turris , Bowers and a 2nd would have been fair for Duchene. The other picks and players are pure gravy, and will likely hurt Ottawa in 3-5 years.
So draft picks are a sure thing? Did not know that. The first could end up being a non lottery pick, good chance of that
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:09 am

Hamburger was a throw in dump bonus for the Sens.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:34 am

So the Ship voluntarily retired from the NHL allowing Vegas to tear up the contract. It also means Vegas owns his NHL rights until he is 35. Interesting way around the cap hit, not that they need relief.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Meds » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:47 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:So how long has the Avalanches current rebuild gone on for now? Must be year 10. When was Duchene drafted? What a rebuild

The two darlings of the 2013 draft - McKinnon and Drouin contine to bust badly. 3 goals 9 assists for the Great generational - McKinnon and 2 goals and 8 assists for Drouin. Habs will regret trading Sergachyov
RD, some serious advice. What ever your smoking or drinking, stop.

You make little sense in most of your posts. You back peddle faster that a politician. You have selective memory. You sqwak like a parrot saying the same thing over and over again.
No kidding. MacKinnon has 14 points in 14 games.....total bust.

Jonathan Drouin, 11 points in 15 games on the slowest starting Montreal team of the past 40 years. He has 10 points in his last 11 games and Montreal is winning games again.

Vintage RD. :roll:

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:55 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Tciso wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:No fan of the primadonna - Duchene, but as Doc says it's quantity over quality, similar to the failed - O'Reilly return. After the O'Reilly experience ya think Sakic would have learned from it and got more of a sure thing in return. It's a gamble in the asset mgmt department, he better hope at least one of those picks and prospects turn out.

Is that so called "generational" player - McKinnon next to go for quantity?
Hard to call 3 good draft picks "Quantity" A 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd are definitely quality picks. Sakic managed to grab both quality and quantity.

Seems to me that Turris , Bowers and a 2nd would have been fair for Duchene. The other picks and players are pure gravy, and will likely hurt Ottawa in 3-5 years.
So draft picks are a sure thing? Did not know that. The first could end up being a non lottery pick, good chance of that
That 1st rounder is top 10 protected.

Agreed Dude, it's like I say...

Extremely unlikely any of those assets turns out to be anywhere near as valuable as Duchene.

In fact, it's doubtful any of those become a top-pairing d-man or a top-line forward.

Ottawa got the best player in this trade and they managed to keep their top 6 (?) prospects.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:00 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:So the Ship voluntarily retired from the NHL allowing Vegas to tear up the contract. It also means Vegas owns his NHL rights until he is 35. Interesting way around the cap hit, not that they need relief.
More like "interesting way" for Vegas to get back almost all of that $2M signing bonus.

I'd love to know the real story of what soured Vegas on Shipachyov.

Sign a UFA to a big contract and then treat him like shit for a month, gotta be a reason...
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Reefer2 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:02 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Tciso wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:No fan of the primadonna - Duchene, but as Doc says it's quantity over quality, similar to the failed - O'Reilly return. After the O'Reilly experience ya think Sakic would have learned from it and got more of a sure thing in return. It's a gamble in the asset mgmt department, he better hope at least one of those picks and prospects turn out.

Is that so called "generational" player - McKinnon next to go for quantity?
Hard to call 3 good draft picks "Quantity" A 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd are definitely quality picks. Sakic managed to grab both quality and quantity.

Seems to me that Turris , Bowers and a 2nd would have been fair for Duchene. The other picks and players are pure gravy, and will likely hurt Ottawa in 3-5 years.
So draft picks are a sure thing? Did not know that. The first could end up being a non lottery pick, good chance of that
I agree with RD on this, I think.

The draft picks and prospects that Colorado received may turn out to be nothing players. The deal cannot be properly evaluated for the Avs for a few years. Hopefully they have figured out how to properly develop players.

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by micky107 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:09 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Tciso wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:No fan of the primadonna - Duchene, but as Doc says it's quantity over quality, similar to the failed - O'Reilly return. After the O'Reilly experience ya think Sakic would have learned from it and got more of a sure thing in return. It's a gamble in the asset mgmt department, he better hope at least one of those picks and prospects turn out.

Is that so called "generational" player - McKinnon next to go for quantity?
Hard to call 3 good draft picks "Quantity" A 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd are definitely quality picks. Sakic managed to grab both quality and quantity.

Seems to me that Turris , Bowers and a 2nd would have been fair for Duchene. The other picks and players are pure gravy, and will likely hurt Ottawa in 3-5 years.
So draft picks are a sure thing? Did not know that. The first could end up being a non lottery pick, good chance of that
I agree with RD on this, I think.

The draft picks and prospects that Colorado received may turn out to be nothing players. The deal cannot be properly evaluated for the Avs for a few years. Hopefully they have figured out how to properly develop players.
Why hopefully? I have a feeling---NOT.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Tciso » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:39 pm

Strangelove wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Tciso wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:No fan of the primadonna - Duchene, but as Doc says it's quantity over quality, similar to the failed - O'Reilly return. After the O'Reilly experience ya think Sakic would have learned from it and got more of a sure thing in return. It's a gamble in the asset mgmt department, he better hope at least one of those picks and prospects turn out.

Is that so called "generational" player - McKinnon next to go for quantity?
Hard to call 3 good draft picks "Quantity" A 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd are definitely quality picks. Sakic managed to grab both quality and quantity.

Seems to me that Turris , Bowers and a 2nd would have been fair for Duchene. The other picks and players are pure gravy, and will likely hurt Ottawa in 3-5 years.
So draft picks are a sure thing? Did not know that. The first could end up being a non lottery pick, good chance of that
That 1st rounder is top 10 protected.

Agreed Dude, it's like I say...

Extremely unlikely any of those assets turns out to be anywhere near as valuable as Duchene.

In fact, it's doubtful any of those become a top-pairing d-man or a top-line forward.

Ottawa got the best player in this trade and they managed to keep their top 6 (?) prospects.
Yes Ottawa got the best player, but, they paid a hell of a price for an upgrade on Turris.
And to RD's point, Yes. Sakic got 3 quality picks. What happens with them is unknown, but, they are still quality picks.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Tciso » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:52 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Tciso wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:No fan of the primadonna - Duchene, but as Doc says it's quantity over quality, similar to the failed - O'Reilly return. After the O'Reilly experience ya think Sakic would have learned from it and got more of a sure thing in return. It's a gamble in the asset mgmt department, he better hope at least one of those picks and prospects turn out.

Is that so called "generational" player - McKinnon next to go for quantity?
Hard to call 3 good draft picks "Quantity" A 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd are definitely quality picks. Sakic managed to grab both quality and quantity.

Seems to me that Turris , Bowers and a 2nd would have been fair for Duchene. The other picks and players are pure gravy, and will likely hurt Ottawa in 3-5 years.
So draft picks are a sure thing? Did not know that. The first could end up being a non lottery pick, good chance of that
I agree with RD on this, I think.

The draft picks and prospects that Colorado received may turn out to be nothing players. The deal cannot be properly evaluated for the Avs for a few years. Hopefully they have figured out how to properly develop players.
I dunno. Smells a lot like the Lindros trade. Not as earth shattering, but similar in player for players/pics. Kinda interesting that Sakic was a member of the Nords when that trade happened.

"After a week-long arbitration process, the result was the biggest trade in NHL history, which saw Lindros' rights awarded to the Flyers in exchange for six players (Steve Duchesne, Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci and Chris Simon), two draft picks and $15 million."
https://www.nhl.com/news/eric-lindros-1 ... y/c-643345
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:04 pm

Lets be honest, no matter hos Bubbles moves the goal posts, there is very limited odds of a 2nd or 3rd round player making an impact.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by SKYO » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:14 pm

Tciso wrote: I dunno. Smells a lot like the Lindros trade. Not as earth shattering, but similar in player for players/pics. Kinda interesting that Sakic was a member of the Nords when that trade happened.

"After a week-long arbitration process, the result was the biggest trade in NHL history, which saw Lindros' rights awarded to the Flyers in exchange for six players (Steve Duchesne, Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci and Chris Simon), two draft picks and $15 million."
https://www.nhl.com/news/eric-lindros-1 ... y/c-643345
Not really close to the lindros trade.

Besides the more seasoned players, there is no elite Forsberg type - Bowers or Kamenev are not going to be like him.
Girard could be a decent QB, but he's 5'10, 162lbs.
Kamenev is hard-nosed dude though, he has some good upside - https://predlines.com/2017/08/30/nashvi ... l-minutes/
Just seems like he doesn't have a good two-way game & isn't the most creative.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:42 pm

Tciso wrote: I dunno. Smells a lot like the Lindros trade. Not as earth shattering, but similar in player for players/pics. Kinda interesting that Sakic was a member of the Nords when that trade happened.

"After a week-long arbitration process, the result was the biggest trade in NHL history, which saw Lindros' rights awarded to the Flyers in exchange for six players (Steve Duchesne, Peter Forsberg, Ron Hextall, Kerry Huffman, Mike Ricci and Chris Simon), two draft picks and $15 million."
https://www.nhl.com/news/eric-lindros-1 ... y/c-643345
Lol, yeahno.

All those players were known quantities at the time of the trade except perhaps 6th-overall Forsberg.

BTW those "two draft picks" in the Lindros trade were 1st round picks.

And $15M was a ridiculous amount of money in 1992.

These two trades are not comparable, get a grip roflmao...
Tciso wrote: Yes Ottawa got the best player, but, they paid a hell of a price for an upgrade on Turris.
Yes but Duchene is a hell of an upgrade on Turris. :D

Even the geeks agree: https://www.thescore.com/news/1400260

Clearly the Sens wanted no part of re-signing Turris and were all-in on Duchene.

Bowers was a 28th-overall pick and it is likely another late 1st they gave up.

The other pick Ottawa threw in was a (likely late) 3rd-rounder.

(the price they paid to dump Hammond?)

So let's say Turris + 28th O/A + say 22nd O/A for Duchene?

Duchene is much more dynamic than Turris and 1.5 years younger.

As he said, this was a "no brainer" for Dorion.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:29 pm

Topper wrote:Lets be honest, no matter hos Bubbles moves the goal posts, there is very limited odds of a 2nd or 3rd round player making an impact.
LOL . Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Patrice Bergeron, PK Subban, Joe Nieuwendyk, and dozens of others say hi.
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