Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Hamhius situation here depends on how the season goes. Can't see Benning trading him if we are in the playoff hunt at the deadline. But if Hammer is healthy and playing well but we are out of it I can imagine there being s frenzy of interest in his services, same goes for vrbata
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper »

Paddy Wagon Kane case reportedly going to the Grand Jury to decide if there is enough evidence for charges.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by ukcanuck »

Topper wrote:Paddy Wagon Kane case reportedly going to the Grand Jury to decide if there is enough evidence for charges.

Does one just get "invited" to testify towards whether or not charges will be laid against one?

seems overly polite
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Cain of Cain and Abel, Cocaine, Evander Kane, Patrick Kane...they all bad
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow »

ukcanuck wrote:
Topper wrote:Paddy Wagon Kane case reportedly going to the Grand Jury to decide if there is enough evidence for charges.

Does one just get "invited" to testify towards whether or not charges will be laid against one?

seems overly polite

Kane can plead the 5th Ammendment in the States, refusing to answer questions on the grounds he might incriminate himself. All witnesses are invited but it means compelled to give evidence. They also have a 5th Ammendment right against self incrimination. Lawyers are not allowed in the Grand Jury room. Kane cannot pick and choose what questions he wants to answer, he can decide to answer all or none. A smart lawyer will advise him to plead the 5th.

The Grand Jury is similar to our preliminary hearing in that a judge hears the evidence and simply decides if there is sufficient evidence to proceed to trial. The Grand Jury decides if there is sufficient evidence to lay charges. They can then go to preliminary hearing if they want or waive that and proceed to trial. Grand Jury's usually meet in secret and all testimony sealed. Sometimes not sealed and sometimes leaks. See the shooting death of that black kid in Ferguson, Grand Jury refuses to indict. Not all jurisdictions use a Grand Jury anymore but in a high profile and political case like this it takes the pressure off the prosecutor.

Of course it is the prosecutor that is presenting the evidence and if they feel charges are unwarranted they can present the case in that light which has always been one of the criticisms of this process. They are the only one presenting evidence. How they question witnesses and how they spin the evidence can be an issue. But the reverse is true. If they feel strongly that charges should be laid but lack sufficient evidence to get an arrest warrant they can present with that bias too, see Jon Binet Ramsey cases against her parents, Grand Jury failed to indict.

This step is intended to bring closure to speculation. Either they will indict, he will be charged, or they will fail to indict and he will be free, pending new evidence coming to light. But to send it to Grand Jury says they believe the women, in this he said she said, but want the Grand Jury to assess.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow »

Patrick Kane grand jury postponed as settlement talks between the two parties continue.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/pat ... -1.3219666

Not unusual in these types of cases where the alleged rapist has money. Obviously Kane wants this to go away and wants to secure a non disclosure agreement. The victim would also benefit by being compensated as well as avoid an emotional trial. Will he be able to hold off an NHL investigation though?

He is set to make over 13 million this season. It would be worth it to him, guilty or not, to buy his way out of this. It only took 2-3 years for Kobe Bryant to get his endorsement deals back. And no one talks about Doug Gillmore's babysitter anymore. Well, they actually stopped talking about her when he left St. Louis.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Strangelove »

Poster Rumsfeld told me Kane would make a great prison bitch.

(I have no idea what that means)
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Strangelove wrote:Poster Rumsfeld told me Kane would make a great prison bitch.

(I have no idea what that means)
Wasn't he a Prison Bull ?

What sort of prisoner would the dude be ?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow »

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Poster Rumsfeld told me Kane would make a great prison bitch.

(I have no idea what that means)
Wasn't he a Prison Bull ?

What sort of prisoner would the dude be ?
That mouthy guy? You figure it out.

Sorry Dude, had to do it.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Meds »

This is the double standard that is the American legal system.

If Kane didn't have the money to buy his way out of this he would be facing a trial. Your average citizen gets prosecuted and tried when accused of rape. Not the rich guy with enough money to buy his way out of it. :roll:

If Kane is actually willing to pay to make this go away, I'd say he's guilty. Otherwise, why not just counter charge for extortion?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Hockey Widow »

It's more common than you think in Canada. In the U.S. the prosecutor can lay charges. However, in high profile cases and/or in cases of he said she said, it is very common for the prosecutor to send it to the grand jury and let them have the burden of deciding if there is sufficient evidence that it is "likely" that the accused could have committed the crime. It is a very very low threshold to get it past a grand jury, beyond reasonable doubt does not come into play, until trial. If the grand jury fails to deliver an indictment the prosecutor can say, well I tried. Again, think black kid in Ferguson. The prosecutor took it to grand jury and they failed to indict.

In Canada we have a preliminary hearing before a judge who decides if there is enough evidence to hold it over for trial. But the defendant in Canada can waive the prelim and proceed directly to trial. Some U.S. states have preliminary trials too. The U.S. Is one of the last jurisdictions to still use a grand jury system and its is optional as the District Attorney has the power to lay charges and forego the grand jury.

Rape is a very difficult case to prove with a very uncertain outcome.

Any person, in Canada or US, that causes harm, even if there are criminal charges, can still face civil charges. Happens all the time. Think OJ. He won his criminal case but lost his civil case.

In a case like this, if the victim can reach a settlement it may be preferable to be dragged through a messy trial. For the high profile accused, he is not only facing jail but loss of a very lucrative career. Mëds is right, money buys you out of a lot of potential problems but this is not unique to the U.S.

So the alleged victim in this case always has a civil right to sue for damages, which are very high in the U.S. This is regardless of the criminal proceedings. It may be a situation were the prosecutor says look we have enough evidence to get it through grand jury but if you can facilitate a civil settlement with the accuser that saves her years of pain and heartache we will stay the proceedings. Kane avoids trial and the potential outcome,the accuser avoids trial and gets her settlement. The State saves millions on not having to prosecute. Keep in mind that a rich defendant can afford a lengthy expensive OJ trial while us poor suckers can't. The cost of a trial would be in the millions for a case like this.

Kane will have a very dark blemish and will need to be careful in the future. He will probably get a non disclosure agreement, much like Michael Jackson did in his first civil case that he settled out of court.

This is so common but ya, if you don't have any money you can't buy your way out. It may not make sense but I'll tell you what, f I was raped, in the U.S., I'd take 10 million any day rather than go through a trial. And if he is innocent, this is still the best way out, closure and certainty, the price you pay for being a high profile jerk.

What all this tells me is there is enough physical evidence to show a sexual interaction between the two without enough evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt it was non consensual. If there was clear, irrefutable evidence of non consensual sex they would have filed charges already.

But it happens in Canada all the time. I was in the business, insurance, and handled these sorts of things for a living. It's not an American problem, it is the rich anywhere in the world having a different standard.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by damonberryman »

Hockey Widow wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
Topper wrote:Paddy Wagon Kane case reportedly going to the Grand Jury to decide if there is enough evidence for charges.

Does one just get "invited" to testify towards whether or not charges will be laid against one?

seems overly polite

Kane can plead the 5th Ammendment in the States, refusing to answer questions on the grounds he might incriminate himself. All witnesses are invited but it means compelled to give evidence. They also have a 5th Ammendment right against self incrimination. Lawyers are not allowed in the Grand Jury room. Kane cannot pick and choose what questions he wants to answer, he can decide to answer all or none. A smart lawyer will advise him to plead the 5th.

The Grand Jury is similar to our preliminary hearing in that a judge hears the evidence and simply decides if there is sufficient evidence to proceed to trial. The Grand Jury decides if there is sufficient evidence to lay charges. They can then go to preliminary hearing if they want or waive that and proceed to trial. Grand Jury's usually meet in secret and all testimony sealed. Sometimes not sealed and sometimes leaks. See the shooting death of that black kid in Ferguson, Grand Jury refuses to indict. Not all jurisdictions use a Grand Jury anymore but in a high profile and political case like this it takes the pressure off the prosecutor.

Of course it is the prosecutor that is presenting the evidence and if they feel charges are unwarranted they can present the case in that light which has always been one of the criticisms of this process. They are the only one presenting evidence. How they question witnesses and how they spin the evidence can be an issue. But the reverse is true. If they feel strongly that charges should be laid but lack sufficient evidence to get an arrest warrant they can present with that bias too, see Jon Binet Ramsey cases against her parents, Grand Jury failed to indict.

This step is intended to bring closure to speculation. Either they will indict, he will be charged, or they will fail to indict and he will be free, pending new evidence coming to light. But to send it to Grand Jury says they believe the women, in this he said she said, but want the Grand Jury to assess.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Topper »

If she accepts the money does that make her a whore?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by 5thhorseman »

Only if it was consensual.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by rats19 »

Is she not admitting consent by accepting money? If not she should take it all the way*looks around*

If so...it's just easier to accept a lot of money for something that already happened and well...might as well get paid..No?
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